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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Red Lodge, MT
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    301
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    So I'm a big sweater too and I found that a highly breathable (read: backcountry oriented) shell makes a big difference. For example, I have a FlyLow Labcoat shell and have found it really helps... especially when hiking at the resort. A thin, light mid layer also helps to absorb some of that sweat that your base layer is wicking away from your body.
    I'd second this. I'd also suggest looking at the BD hybrid hoody or something similar as a mid-layer—insulation on the shoulders, chest, arms and upper back, uninsulated merino on the lower back and underarms. Combine that with an uninsulated and highly breathable shell (i.e. current-gen Gore Tex Pro or the like) and you'll probably be somewhat better off. Ultimately, though, if you're alternating three-to-five minute periods of high-output activity with five-to-fifteen-minute periods of no activity, dressing is going to be hard. My general preference is to deal with being slightly cold on the lift, but that plan could lead to hypothermia if you end up sitting there for thirty minutes waiting for evac or sitting on the snow for half an hour waiting for patrol.

    Also, YMMV, but I find merino base layers to be far better than poly ones for "work hard, sweat a little, and sit around" duty.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    3,088
    for dry snow places like JH and Alta just get a softshell... made of something like schoeller (BD makes some I think?) so it'll breathe. or freeridesystems as mentioned.

    I'm with you on the base layers though, they're all the same. I think I normally ski in some 1/4 zip under armor thing cuz it happens to fit best. it wicks fine.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cruzing
    Posts
    7,773
    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    Join date of 10/2001?!!!
    Sleeper cell troll

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Den/Baltimore
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    3,992
    Quote Originally Posted by roll - gybe View Post
    It takes me 20 minutes of activity to completely saturate my base layers; usually with pit zipps open. When I’m skiing down I am steaming hot. On the lift I am cold. Back down I am hot and wet.
    What kind of "activity" are we talking here? Hiking? Skinning? Skiing down? If you're saturating your base layers in 20 minutes of normal skiing down, you're either dressed too warm or you're in awful shape. For hiking, I always unzip my jacket, take off my helmet, etc, or I'll overheat. I do the same on the chair if I got hot on the way down -- vent until I'm cold and then zip up. Longer skins are obviously a different animal.

    At Alta or JH, you likely don't need a super waterproof shell like Gore Pro. You'll probably be fine with Neoshell or even a non-laminate softshell, and those will breathe much better. The problem is that you need to find exactly what level of insulation works for you skiing inbounds, which can be a big trial and error process and also temp dependent. Many people like very breathable layers, but some prefer a next-to-skin vapor barrier -- the idea being that you create a microclimate next to your skin, and you also have to vent it whenever you start to overheat. You can read much more about this by searching, but "Big/DIY/Old Steve" has written lots about it.

    I suggest you stick to merino baselayers that are light (like 150 g/m^2) because you can't really vent a heavy baselayer.

    I bet a good combo would be:
    Extremely breathable layer (e.g., https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/produc...ip-hoodie-men/)
    Light, uninsulated softshell outer layer (e.g., https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/produc...brid-jacket-m/)

    OR (if you run super hot)

    lwt merino tee
    Softshell outer layer (http://www.mountain-equipment.com/vulcan-jacket, FRS Antero II)

    OR (if you run less hot or for colder days)

    SS lwt merino tee
    Insulated softshell, like Gore Windstopper or Polartec Softshell with 120g Polartec Alpha (w. vents lets you bypass all your insulation when you're working). This might be expensive and hard to find the exact amount of insulation you want. Some ($$$) options include:
    https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/produc...ha-jacket-men/
    https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/produc...loft-jacket-m/
    https://arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/Fissile-Jacket

    OR (go the opposite direction -- instead of breathable base/mid layer, try a vapor barrier layer)

    semi-permeable vapor barrier (next to skin)
    Windproof, lightly insulated jacket (insulated however much is needed to keep you warm enough)
    Last edited by auvgeek; 11-29-2017 at 12:39 PM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    meager stoke

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Jackson Hole
    Posts
    2,328
    I see skiers squaring up or (even cubing) up on breathable layers. Multiple breathable layers is too much for the system and moisture can't push through. Figuring out which layers are best just takes time on the hill and by the time you've figured it out the magic piece holding it all together gets lost, trashed, destroyed and you've got start all over again.

    Determine what's going to be the dominate piece- base layer, insulation, shell, etc. and build around that. I still think wool is best for base and mid layers. Especially when moisture is an issue.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wenatchee
    Posts
    6,946
    If you're skiing in a dry place just get one of these https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/3293...t-fleece-lined
    Seriously, it's a great jacket and a bargain.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Spudlandia
    Posts
    3,738
    Also, to cool down quicker on the lifts, I almost always take off my gloves and helmet. Your head and hands are great radiators. Then once I'm comfortable I put them back on for the rest of the ride. Helps me to regulate the sweat/freeze cycle.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
    Posts
    1,690
    If you want a softshell for breathability reasons, it means getting a softshell without a laminate layer in it that adds waterproofing. For dry snow places like JH/Alta a non-laminate softshell is probably fine.

    While I love FRS and wear their Antero II plus a lot (and their bross hoodie almost every day)-- I would look elsewhere for a breathable softshell. The neoshell they use has a laminate which makes it burly and waterproof, but isn't as breathable as others.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    293
    Yeah sounds like tweaking with your base layer + a non laminate non insulated softshell (hell maybe even a softshell with pit zips...which are a pain to find) might be the ticket. Also tweaking your head and glove pieces is another way to trick your body into regulating temp they way you want/ sweating less.
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Red Lodge, MT
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    At Alta or JH, you don't need a super waterproof shell like Gore Pro. You'll be fine with Neoshell or even Gore softshell, and those will breathe much better.
    I'd generally agree, but if you're going to go hard shell, the Gore Pro breathes better than the lesser Gores (IME, at least). I've got a Gore Pro shell with pitzips that's the first jacket I've had that I can use for skinning in wet conditions without getting just as drenched from the inside out.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    11,192
    IME next-to-skin semi-VB top is the only way to avoid chilling when up/down cycling, whether skinning or riding lifts. Experiment with different layer/shell over semi-VB. See any of numerous threads re semi-VBs. I'm a heavy sweater. YMMV

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Land of Milk and Honies
    Posts
    185
    Cool good info. Non laminated. Just learned something.

    Maybe it would help if I took the derby flex off my Fischer GS race 204s on a powder day.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Der Town
    Posts
    4,411
    Quote Originally Posted by roll - gybe View Post
    Cool good info. Non laminated. Just learned something.

    Maybe it would help if I took the derby flex off my Fischer GS race 204s on a powder day.
    Your jacket is fine. You ski Alta and JH on GS race skis from the 90s??

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Land of Milk and Honies
    Posts
    185
    Sometimes I bust out the monoboard. Canít do daffies with it though.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Portland by way of Bozeman
    Posts
    2,528
    204 GS skis with plates? lol wut

    Not sure if serious? Or next level trollololol?

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Den/Baltimore
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    3,992
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig View Post
    next level trollololol?
    The only possible explanation
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    meager stoke

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Der Town
    Posts
    4,411
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    The only possible explanation
    that or some sort of time travel situation. Perhaps roll-gybe has been in stasis since October 2001, only to be awoken by global warming or some kind of invisible cosmic force?

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    north aspect
    Posts
    33,055
    Quote Originally Posted by roll - gybe View Post
    Yeah ... was more active on the old board!
    fact that you remember your password is 8.3/10
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

  19. #44
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sonoma & Truckee
    Posts
    7,887
    Or have the same email address to recover it. Jim@hotmail.com... :-)

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
    Posts
    19,816
    Jeans and starter jacket and red boots is the combo you need.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    18,118
    Open starter jacket.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    6,993
    If you're cold half the time and hot half the time you're doing it right. There is not magic fabric or combination of fabric that will solve your problem. No matter how breathable or wicking a fabric is you can always sweat more than the fabrics abilityto transfer moisture. If you run in Florida when it's 90/90 wearing only a thin nylon track singlet it will be sweat soaked and that's about as breathable as it gets. If you really want to minimize comfort differences between lifts and skiing adjusting your clothing frequently is the way to do it. Opening and close pit zips and front zips, side zips on pants, taking headgear on and off.

    I agree with those that mention technique and conditioning. I was skiing in Chamonix during a very warm sunny week. I was wearing a baselayer and shell and was miserable hot and sweaty. The guide had on a shell, puffy, midlayer and baselayer and didn't seem to be having any problem with the heat. And he was skiing with a heavy pack. Another issue is insulation--the kind under your skin. Percentage body fat can make a big difference.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Land of Milk and Honies
    Posts
    185
    Quote Originally Posted by AaronWright View Post
    If you're skiing in a dry place just get one of these https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/3293...t-fleece-lined
    Seriously, it's a great jacket and a bargain.
    I have the Lands End version of this already

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Land of Milk and Honies
    Posts
    185
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    If you're cold half the time and hot half the time you're doing it right. There is not magic fabric or combination of fabric that will solve your problem. No matter how breathable or wicking a fabric is you can always sweat more than the fabrics abilityto transfer moisture. If you run in Florida when it's 90/90 wearing only a thin nylon track singlet it will be sweat soaked and that's about as breathable as it gets. If you really want to minimize comfort differences between lifts and skiing adjusting your clothing frequently is the way to do it. Opening and close pit zips and front zips, side zips on pants, taking headgear on and off.

    I agree with those that mention technique and conditioning. I was skiing in Chamonix during a very warm sunny week. I was wearing a baselayer and shell and was miserable hot and sweaty. The guide had on a shell, puffy, midlayer and baselayer and didn't seem to be having any problem with the heat. And he was skiing with a heavy pack. Another issue is insulation--the kind under your skin. Percentage body fat can make a big difference.
    I get your point about not doing it right! I will say Chamonix is is hot as fuck. I went there with one pair of long john bottoms for a week and came back with some pretty scary funk. I went to the doctor, and turns out wearing my under pants inside out didnít really work after the second day. I was pretty scared. I thought it might be consumption.

    I had also knocked my front teeth out and I had a hole in ny cheek, so I was a sight.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Den/Baltimore
    Posts
    3,992
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    If you're cold half the time and hot half the time you're doing it right. There is not magic fabric or combination of fabric that will solve your problem. No matter how breathable or wicking a fabric is you can always sweat more than the fabrics abilityto transfer moisture. If you run in Florida when it's 90/90 wearing only a thin nylon track singlet it will be sweat soaked and that's about as breathable as it gets. If you really want to minimize comfort differences between lifts and skiing adjusting your clothing frequently is the way to do it. Opening and close pit zips and front zips, side zips on pants, taking headgear on and off.
    Have you tried a semi-VB? Totally different approach than wicking or breathable fabrics. IME, it works very well. Too bad I wear armor in the resort, which makes the problem extra complicated.

    But some people still like the breathable stuff, and honestly, if it's cold and you're not working that hard, it can work reasonably well. The Florida analogy isn't fair because you're not skiing in 90F and running is higher output than skiing downhill. I absolutely do not think one has to be uncomfortably cold half the time and uncomfortably hot and sweaty half the time when riding lifts.
    Last edited by auvgeek; 11-29-2017 at 10:16 PM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    meager stoke

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