IMPORTANT, NEED ADVICE: Marker Kingpin Length Adjustment past STOP

**Bragelonne** · 11-16-2017, 06:14 PM

I suspect that the ski shop technician who mounted my Kingpin is a complete incompetent. The BSL adjustment is about a 1/4 inch past the STOP mark.

I'm wondering if this is a safety issue serious enough to warrant a re-drill.

The kingpin are mounted on V-Werks Katanas and I would hate to have to re-drill on them.

Here's how it looks:

Click image for larger version.

Name: 20171116_122839.jpg
Views: 562
Size: 787.5 KB
ID: 216375

Here's what the Kingpin manual states:

Click image for larger version.

Name: Kingpin Manual.png
Views: 394
Size: 182.2 KB
ID: 216376

**doebedoe** · 11-16-2017, 06:34 PM

If forward pressure is set correctly, and that's what your heel looks like -- shop owes you a fresh pair of skis. Don't ski them like that, the kingpin track is already the weakest part of the binding. Putting it outside its intentional operating zone is a no no.

Talk to a manager, not the dolt who mounted your skis. If they argue, show them that image. If they continue to argue, call Marker on their behalf to let them know someone who likely sells their products doesn't know how to safely mount them.

IMHO its not acceptable for a shop to just redrill in this instance without significant other compensation. Putting extra holes in a ski like the v-werks significantly reduces its value.

And for future reference: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...n-fucking-skis

**Bragelonne** · 11-16-2017, 09:45 PM

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, forward pressure is all good.

I contacted the shop and they couldn't care less, as I bought my gear online and only paid the shop for a mounting job.

The tech may have done this on purpose as a "fuck you, buy your gear in my shop next time".

I sent an email to Marker Canada with the shop CC'ed.

I will duly follow your advice to mount my own fucking skis next time.

This was an harsh and expensive way to learn that lesson.

**NW_SKIER** · 11-16-2017, 09:47 PM

They fucked them up, they should have to honor their fail. Push harder.

**buttahflake** · 11-16-2017, 09:58 PM

We charge an extra $10 on mounts that are from out of house.
No shop I have ever been affiliated with would do that to make a point.
The boot is in the binding in that pic? And you can't get that screw, flush?
Is that what I'm seeing? Did you fill out the long, skinny form, height, weight, skier type, age? And they tested it on a robot? And had you sign-off? I'm confused. No shop worth their salt would let be a lesson to buy in house. Weird. We test everything, including tech binders. We turn the ski around on Kingpins, because the release is all in the heel. And then turn it back around to test the heel, as normal.

**Ted Striker** · 11-16-2017, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bragelonne

I contacted the shop and they couldn't care less, as I bought my gear online and only paid the shop for a mounting job.

But you paid them for the job. They didn't do it for free. They definitely should make it right.

doebedoe is right. I was playing with a pair of kingpins today, and man that track is thin.

As for it being intentional, I seriously doubt it. When I worked in a shop, we'd never send anything out that could hurt someone.

**auvgeek** · 11-16-2017, 10:04 PM

Did you speak directly to the manager/owner of the shop in person with your skis in hand?

**Ted Striker** · 11-16-2017, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

The boot is in the binding in that pic? And you can't get that screw, flush?

Looking closer at that pic, I'm thinking the same thing. It doesn't look like the forward pressure is set at all.

**Skidog** · 11-16-2017, 10:07 PM

Tell them..ok I can ski them, get hurt, sue you and own your shop. Would you prefer that?

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

**NW_SKIER** · 11-16-2017, 10:10 PM

Looking at the photo, it doesn't matter if the boot is in the binder or not. It's not going to move the heel piece forward by "stepping in". Somebody fucked up. They owe him some skis.

We need more pics.

**Skidog** · 11-16-2017, 10:16 PM

You can also try to ask again, if they say no out the shop here. That always causes some pain

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

**auvgeek** · 11-16-2017, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by pisteoff

Looking closer at that pic, I'm thinking the same thing. It doesn't look like the forward pressure is set at all.

Given that we can't tell if there's a boot in the binder in the first pic, I don't see how you could possibly determine whether the forward pressure was set correctly or not.

OP says forward pressure was set correctly. If he popped his boot in the binder and ensured the screw was flush with the housing, then popped the boot out and took that photo, that would easily explain it.

**Ted Striker** · 11-16-2017, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Given that we can't tell if there's a boot in the binder in the first pic, I don't see how you could possibly determine whether the forward pressure was set correctly or not.

OP says forward pressure was set correctly. If he popped his boot in the binder and ensured the screw was flush with the housing, then popped the boot out and took that photo, that would easily explain it.

From the other thread he started in the wrong sub-forum:

Originally Posted by buttahflake

Is the boot in the binding in that pic?

Originally Posted by Bragelonne

Yes it is.

**auvgeek** · 11-16-2017, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by pisteoff

From the other thread he started in the wrong sub-forum:

Ah, okay. My bad. Stupid multiple threads. I actually think you're correct. If the boot is in the binding in that photo, clearly the forward pressure is way too low and wasn't set.

OP: What makes you think the forward pressure is "all good?"

I don't see why you couldn't increase the forward pressure. Despite what the marker manual says, do NOT attempt to increase the forward pressure with the boot in the binding. Do it without the boot in there, and pop the boot in the binding to check if the screw is flush.

But it's still on the shop to set the forward pressure and test the release.

**Ted Striker** · 11-16-2017, 10:28 PM

lol... no worries.

**Bragelonne** · 11-16-2017, 11:14 PM

Thanks for the help, I never mounted bindings myself so I have no experience in this matter.

Yes the boots are in the bindings in my first post's pic. I tried tightening up the forward pressure screw, got it flush with the housing, but I'm still a quarter inch behind the stop mark.

Here's the overview:

Click image for larger version.

Name: 20171116_210359.jpg
Views: 231
Size: 1.04 MB
ID: 216409

Click image for larger version.

Name: 20171116_153008.jpg
Views: 571
Size: 1.09 MB
ID: 216410

Let me know if you need more pics.

Originally Posted by buttahflake

We charge an extra $10 on mounts that are from out of house.
No shop I have ever been affiliated with would do that to make a point.
The boot is in the binding in that pic?

Yes

Originally Posted by buttahflake

And you can't get that screw, flush?

I just did and still a quarter inch behind the stop mark.

Originally Posted by buttahflake

Is that what I'm seeing? Did you fill out the long, skinny form, height, weight, skier type, age?

Yes

Originally Posted by buttahflake

And they tested it on a robot?

I assume they did, it's a well known ski shop in the Montreal region.
The shop is OBERSON BROSSARD
https://www.oberson.com/fr/boutique-...quartier-dix30

**Bragelonne** · 11-16-2017, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

OP: What makes you think the forward pressure is "all good?"

I don't see why you couldn't increase the forward pressure. Despite what the marker manual says, do NOT attempt to increase the forward pressure with the boot in the binding. Do it without the boot in there, and pop the boot in the binding to check if the screw is flush.

But it's still on the shop to set the forward pressure and test the release.

I just tried that, the forward pressure screw is flush with the binding housing when the boot is in, and the binding is still a quarter inch behind the stop mark on the rail:

Attachment 216411

**roverdoc** · 11-17-2017, 01:24 AM

Thats a fucked mount. Maybe they drilled it when in "walk mode" thus the screwed up heels and then had to maximally adjust when they realized the error. Sorry man. I will never have a shop mount anything.

**waxoff** · 11-17-2017, 03:38 AM

I'd measure the distance between the mounting screws in toe and heel pieces and compare to a paper template set to your bootsole length. I wouldn't be surprised i the guy installing them by mistake misread/forgot/mindslipped/fuckedup/ and simply set the jig a full shell size or two too small.

If that's the case, your bootsole middle mark should also be slightly behind the intended mounting line on the ski, is it behind, or is it at the line/ location you wanted with the boot in the binding?

**jacob_dbu** · 11-17-2017, 03:49 AM

Either way, short of you giving them the wrong boot to use, they messed up big time and should be buying you new skis for that. Then go home and drill them yourself.

**Aus George** · 11-17-2017, 04:25 AM

New skis bro

**Bragelonne** · 11-17-2017, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by SoooL

your bootsole middle mark should also be slightly behind the intended mounting line on the ski, is it behind, or is it at the line/ location you wanted with the boot in the binding?

Checked that and the boot is pretty much dead center on the mid sole mark, where I asked the shop to mount them. I guess it's the only thing they got right.

Originally Posted by thejongiest

Either way, short of you giving them the wrong boot to use, they messed up big time and should be buying you new skis for that. Then go home and drill them yourself.

Despite that I'm an idiot for thinking a professional ski shop would do a better job then me to mount tech bindings on top-notch carbon skis, I'm not mentally challenged. Yes, I gave them my Cochise, the only pair of boots I have. I specifically bought the Cochise in order to have a one-quiver boot.

Ok, so the bottom line is It's unsafe to ski with the binding mounted like that and I need to fucking re-drill. FUCK.
I sure will continue to try to reach out to Marker Canada and that moronic shop to get compensation.
Unfortunate that in this day and age accountability for mistakes isn't what it used to be.

And yes, I learned my lesson, I will learn to mount my own fucking skis next time.

TABARNAK D'OSTIE DE CÂLISSE.

**NW_SKIER** · 11-17-2017, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Bragelonne

Checked that and the boot is pretty much dead center on the mid sole mark, where I asked the shop to mount them. I guess it's the only thing they got right.

Despite that I'm an idiot for thinking a professional ski shop would do a better job then me to mount tech bindings on top-notch carbon skis, I'm not mentally challenged. Yes, I gave them my Cochise, the only pair of boots I have. I specifically bought the Cochise in order to have a one-quiver boot.

Ok, so the bottom line is It's unsafe to ski with the binding mounted like that and I need to fucking re-drill. FUCK.
I sure will continue to try to reach out to Marker Canada and that moronic shop to get compensation.
Unfortunate that in this day and age accountability for mistakes isn't what it used to be.

And yes, I learned my lesson, I will learn to mount my own fucking skis next time.

TABARNAK D'OSTIE DE CÂLISSE.

Instead of "reaching out," you should go to the shop in person, with the skis, and show them their mistake. They need to make it right. Ask for the owner. You paid for a mount, they botched it. This is on them.

**buttahflake** · 11-17-2017, 09:29 AM

I'm confused, the center mark on the boot, lines up with the line on the ski, and it still sits off the back of the track? With the boot out, drive the forward pressure screw in, and see if it engages the track, and moves past the red zone. If it does, try putting the boot in, what happens?

**doebedoe** · 11-17-2017, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

I'm confused, the center mark on the boot, lines up with the line on the ski, and it still sits off the back of the track? With the boot out, drive the forward pressure screw in, and see if it engages the track, and moves past the red zone. If it does, try putting the boot in, what happens?

Not sure exactly how it would happen with a jug, but sounds like toe mounted correctly and the heel was botched. That'd give proper centering.