Multiple Spinners...

[kalisto]

Mounting up my bindings, rushed the last screw and got a spinner... not a big deal. Tried fiberglass/steel wool mix, didn't want to tighten down, but while mounting/off/remounting, got another spinner... Sloppy, I know, but given it's a lightweight touring ski with no metal mounting area, I'm not surprised.

Anyway...

What's the best way to go here? Realistically, I'm not going to remount these again, so as long as my feet stay on the skis, I don't care.

Bindings = G3 Ions.

Options:
- Brass or plastic hammer in inserts, but the recommendation isn't to use more than 1.
- Threaded inserts, same recommendation as above
- Helicoil, could go this route I think?
- BindingFreedom inserts, don't really want to go this route as then I always feel like I need to check the screw tightness, also means different screws for one heel piece.

Part of me thinks on the 3rd mount, I'm going to destroy another hole, so I am considering just going all in on all 4 holes with a method above.


WWYD?

[GeezerSteve]

Are you tooled up for ski helicoils? IME that's the best fix. Expanding pound-in inserts also work well if you use the correct size drill bit. Your spinner hole is likely too big for a good BF insert fit.

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

If you are heavier than say 165lbs, I would suggest going with re-drilling all of the binding holes and installing QK or BF inserts. (they require a larger pilot hole than any stripped out regular screw hole but smaller than a helicoil)
G3 bindings only have four holes and have lifter plates which add leverage to those four screws. In a lightweight ski, you run the risk of pulling the binding out.

[ill-advised strategy]

If you want to do any of these and you're not confident, go try to find a junk ski to practice with, so your first effort to helicoil or insert or whatever isn't a hole that counts.

practice until you're confident.

[XXX-er]

Mounting up my bindings, rushed the last screw and got a spinner... not a big deal. Tried fiberglass/steel wool mix, didn't want to tighten down, but while mounting/off/remounting, got another spinner... Sloppy, I know, but given it's a lightweight touring ski with no metal mounting area, I'm not surprised.

Anyway...

What's the best way to go here? Realistically, I'm not going to remount these again, so as long as my feet stay on the skis, I don't care.

Bindings = G3 Ions.

Options:
- Brass or plastic hammer in inserts, but the recommendation isn't to use more than 1.
- Threaded inserts, same recommendation as above
- Helicoil, could go this route I think?
- BindingFreedom inserts, don't really want to go this route as then I always feel like I need to check the screw tightness, also means different screws for one heel piece.

Part of me thinks on the 3rd mount, I'm going to destroy another hole, so I am considering just going all in on all 4 holes with a method above.


WWYD?

Did you let the epoxy/filler material cure before you cranked the screws down ?

Before the epoxy cures there is really nothing for the screw to grab onto and it will continue to spin but after it cures you should be able to crank the screws down hard

IME coat the screws with something slippery like oil or wax, wet out ( but too much epoxy is not as strong ) some FG strands chopped into 1cm pieces, cram the holes and run the the screws in to the point where they are JUST about to spin & leave the epoxy to set for a day or 2 then crank em down if they don't spin ... you have re-manufactured the screw threads

[that dude who did that thing]

Disclaimer: I am not a ski tech. I am lawyer who, fo rthe last quarter centuy has been playing with tools, wood, skis, adhesives and other supplies and equipment. If you follow my advice you might die. That's on you.

Ski construction is not that complicated, though it varies a little bit from ski to ski. I would prep the hole to be completely refilled, refill it, let it set, and redrill. To prep I would drill out any damaged bits, with a slightly larger bit. Any old threads are toast, and you want to remove them. I would us a dental pick to very slightly rough up the sides of the new, larger hole, to create additional "bite" in the surrounding materials (your repair is going to end up stronger than the ski, and you don't the repair pulling out as a "plug" on the end of a screw). The hole can be refilled with a mixture of materials. My preference is for wood shavings on wood-core skis (if I had fine ground silica epoxy filler, tough stuff). On foamcore skis it's a tough decision, you could create plastic shavings with a knife and a random piece of hard plastic, use wood shavings or, again, the fine silica is the best choice but most folks don't have that laying around. I've never liked using steel wool for a couple of reasons (even in an epoxy matrix it can rust; there is a slight chance of non-helpful reaction with the metal of the screws), and glass fibers have very little strength once they are chopped up into tiny pieces (I've always thought if you're going to use glass, keep it as long and intact as possible to get max strength from it once epoxied). Use a long-set epoxy, not 5-minute stuff. The cure strength is orders of magnitude stronger. Apply a little heat (heat gun or even SWMBO's blow dryer) to help it penetrate, but don't overheat it, overheating is bad for final cure strength. Let is set completely (24+ hours, 48 is better), then drill and tap a new hole.

That's the way this anal-retentive workshop monkey would do it.

[Alpinord]

With Vibra-Tite in Binding Freedom inserts, I have yet to have to re-tighten the screws. So, that is not a big worry, IMO. (But still check periodically.) Binding Freedom inserts is my vote.

Regarding, 'threaded inserts', are you talking brass for alpine screws? I'd stay away from brass in general (for threaded and tap-ins) and go with tap-in nylons.

[kalisto]

For reference, I've installed bindings on a handful of skis and put bindingfreedom inserts on a few pairs as well. This is mostly my fault and getting too comfortable mounting bindings on skis with titanal and being careless.

XXX-er, was kind of thinking that... trying to rebuild the threads. How do you lay up the FG? lay them across the hole then push the screw down into them? How do you avoid not having a mess of fiberglass/epoxy all over your bindings?

Edit: Yep, thread in brass... Tap in nylon is an easy enough thing to do, but the recommendation is not to use more than 1. Not sure if that's just 'what they say', and assuming I do everything right, it won't be an issue? Or is it really something I should adhere to.

[1000-oaks]

With Vibra-Tite in Binding Freedom inserts, I have yet to have to re-tighten the screws. So, that is not a big worry, IMO. (But still check periodically.) Binding Freedom inserts is my vote.

X2, plus draw indicator lines on the screws with a Sharpie after they're tightened, so you can see if any are loosening with a glance.

[XXX-er]

For reference, I've installed bindings on a handful of skis and put bindingfreedom inserts on a few pairs as well. This is mostly my fault and getting too comfortable mounting bindings on skis with titanal and being careless.

XXX-er, was kind of thinking that... trying to rebuild the threads. How do you lay up the FG? lay them across the hole then push the screw down into them? How do you avoid not having a mess of fiberglass/epoxy all over your bindings?

.

well I have fucked up back in the day on some 4 hole tele bindings into a wood ski which is even harder on a mount and its been good

mix up some epoxy and 1 cm chopped up strands of FG on a piece of cardboard, wet out the strands compeletely but try to keep the mix not too resin rich cuz resin by itself is not as strong as the filler, you end up with a glob of FG/resin, then cram the holes with as much mixture as you can get in the hole

then just mount the binding which shouldnt get too much epoxy on the bindings, stop screwing before the screw spins you should know how far to go from where it spun on you before

crank em down after the epoxy cures, if you can crank them down hard without spinning then you don't have spinners anymore, its pretty cheap and easy

if the screw still spins ... try something else

[waxoff]

But before you start with the FG and epoxy repair, make sure the holes are drilled deep enough. That would be my first suspicion if I encountered multiple spinners on the same mount. That or debris left in the holes after drilling. Too shallow a hole is the easiest way to cause spinners.

[kalisto]

But before you start with the FG and epoxy repair, make sure the holes are drilled deep enough. That would be my first suspicion if I encountered multiple spinners on the same mount. That or debris left in the holes after drilling. Too shallow a hole is the easiest way to cause spinners.

Yep, that was the cause of the first spinner. the 2nd time I had a bit of crap stuck around the hole where the screw goes through. The ions are indented so if it volcanos a tiny bit, it's fine, but a bit of glue worked its way in there.

[XXX-er]

you know what else you could do is just move the whole mount a half an inch or so

[LC]

In my experience spinners are caused by drilling badly, either off-centre or off-vertical. Listen to XXX-er, I learned this stuff from a similar thread I started exactly 8 years ago when I got a spinner (maybe even two) on an FKS heel and I skied those skis hard for a few years after a fibreglass fix. Lots of fibreglass, just enough epoxy. Snug. Let cure completely. Tighten. Ride.

[kalisto]

Will try FG then report back...

Any thoughts why the following wouldn't work?

- putting in FG/epoxy/screws in a little deeper than they will be with bindings
- letting it set
- pull out screws
- reinstall with bindings

In theory it would work... no?

[XXX-er]

Yeah you could do that ^^ I have put screws & FG in the stripped hole, removed them the next day, let the epoxy set completely and then mount the binding with more epoxy

maybe you wana put some lube on the screws so they are easier to take out

LC are you saying I suggested you try this method to fix spinners 8 yrs ago and it worked ?

edit: Ok I found the messages in PM's, now I remember !

[Pukesno]

There is an old thread on here talking about the nylon tap ins and how well they performed. I believe Marshalolson posted the tear out calcs of the tap in that exceeded a pulling force of a standard mount. With that info, I resurrected and old ski that I ripped the heels out of using the tap ins throughout and have to agree they hold better than just screwing into the core.

[kalisto]

did you use them on all the screws?

[Pukesno]

Yes, both heels and all screws. I am pretty big at 6'3 and 235# and was nervous at first, but they have held up under some serious conditions.