Personal Locator Beacons: Options besides SPOT?

[uglymoney]

Super awesome report. Not so awesome root cause though.
I've looked through your post history - but you don't seem to say what happened?

So many questions!

>U-EIGHTY-EIGHT, HOBBY -
What's that mean?

>I made it to 105 months. I’m ok with that.
And that?

Is Auntie Hydrocodone helping you tell the story?!

I'm sure we'd love to hear the full story.

All that said - it sucks to get thrashed. And it looks like you really done it right. [Go big or go home, amiright?!]
Heal up soon!

-Greg

Yeah great report. It can take a while to talk about stuff. Or never. I can relate.

[powdrhound]

Yeah great report. It can take a while to talk about stuff. Or never. I can relate.

It is hard to face stupid decisions.

[SkiLyft]

Bumping bivy back up.

https://www.bivy.com/

Anyone have real world use?


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[summit]

Bumping bivy back up.

https://www.bivy.com/

Anyone have real world use?

What a piece of shit. You are 100% reliant of a functional cellphone in order to even send SOS.

Bivy support literally recommends traveling with a companion so you can use their phone to send the SOS if your phone fails (and you better remember to install the app before you leave cell coverage).

For the same price as an InReach Mini, you get none of the redundancy!

I would take literally any emergency locator device on the market, PLB, an old Spot, before I'd buy a Bivy.

I just purchased an InReach Mini to replace my PLB. It's pretty neat!

[doebedoe]

Really like my inReach Mini after a season. All the functionality I personally need as a non-pro user, and only 3.5oz.

[summit]

Climbers in eastern BC attempted to activate two SPOT 3s for SOS, neither of which worked, apparently due to an extended SPOT "network outage" (WTF?) Of course they had no way to know that their SOS was not getting through because SPOT Gen3 is a 1 way device.

They were rescued because they left a trip plan with instructions to activate rescue early if overdue.

Always leave a plan. If you have a satellite messenger that not 2-way, upgrade it, or carry a PLB as well using the sat msger for OK and tracking only.

[doebedoe]

Garmin just removed all fees associated with switching plans. Now you can downgrade months that you don't expect to need a high level of texts/tracking points/etc.

Was pretty handy to have to let my partner know I was going to be late getting out when I fractured my fib in the Gores a few weeks ago.

[summit]

Garmin just removed all fees associated with switching plans. Now you can downgrade months that you don't expect to need a high level of texts/tracking points/etc.

Was pretty handy to have to let my partner know I was going to be late getting out when I fractured my fib in the Gores a few weeks ago.

That is darn covenient!

Ouch! Good on you for toughing it out!

[doebedoe]

That is darn covenient!

Ouch! Good on you for toughing it out!

Certainly glad I pack a shit ton of Vitamin I.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Certainly glad I pack a shit ton of Vitamin I.

Be careful with that. Ask a trained wilderness medical professional (Summit). InReach Minis are awesome. Seems like it is pretty much becoming the standard.

[doebedoe]

Be careful with that. Ask a trained wilderness medical professional (Summit). InReach Minis are awesome. Seems like it is pretty much becoming the standard.

I regulated my dose. And had a good debrief about it this past week with an WEMT and paramedic in my OEC class.

But the 4 or 6 or whatever 200mg pills that come standard in most First Aid kits wouldn't have been enough for the night of and the 6mi/3000' hike out the next day.

[summit]

Vit I (advil/ibuprofen) is pretty safe in the wilderness setting as long as you:
1. Don't take too much (Why? Vit I side effects magnify with dose, particularly nausea/vomiting/GI bleed). The bottle says take 400mg q 4-8 hours with a max of 1200mg in a day. A prescription might be up to 600mg q 6hrs or 800mg q 8hrs. I'd never take more than 800mg for an initial dose, also because taking more probably doesn't have additional positive effect while still having extra risk.
2. Don't have major internal/external hemorrhage. (Why? Vit I interferes with clotting, so if there is major bleeding or significant chest/abd trauma, or a closed head injury/concussion, I'd use tylenol instead).
3. You are hydrated (Why? it can damage your kidneys if you are dehyrdated)
4. Use it short term, ie hours/days (Why? Vit I continuously longer than 10 days can really screw with stomach and increase the risk for GI bleeds/ulcers (particularly if used with alcohol/tobacco) and screws with your body's clotting system and instead of reducing clotting, it can cause clots which can cause heart attacks, strokes, etc)
5. Don't mix and match with other NSAIDs like aspriin, naproxen (aleve), toradol, meloxicam. (Tylenol OK).
6. Avoid interactions: Ibuprofen/Advil interacts, sometimes severely, with many common medications taken for chronic conditions: eg lithium, ACE inhibitors, ARBs, and anticoagulants/blood thinners, and others too innumerable to list here (talk to your prescriber)
7. Avoid the liquid gels (these spike peak plasma concentrations which means you should never take more than 400mg, all for maybe working a few minutes earlier than a 400mg non-liquid-gel dose)

Caveats:
This is what I'd do... you aren't me and I'm not you. I'm not your healthcare practitioner and I don't know your medical history. I'm not a pharmacist either so this list ain't inclusive... it's the internet, yo!

[LightRanger]

Vit I (advil/ibuprofen) is pretty safe in the wilderness setting as long as you:
1. Don't take too much (Why? Vit I side effects magnify with dose, particularly nausea/vomiting/GI bleed). The bottle says take 400mg q 4-8 hours with a max of 1200mg in a day. A prescription might be up to 600mg q 6hrs or 800mg q 8hrs. I'd never take more than 800mg for an initial dose, also because taking more probably doesn't have additional positive effect while still having extra risk.
2. Don't have major internal/external hemorrhage. (Why? Vit I interferes with clotting, so if there is major bleeding or significant chest/abd trauma, or a closed head injury/concussion, I'd use tylenol instead).
3. You are hydrated (Why? it can damage your kidneys if you are dehyrdated)
4. Use it short term, ie hours/days (Why? Vit I continuously longer than 10 days can really screw with stomach and increase the risk for GI bleeds/ulcers (particularly if used with alcohol/tobacco) and screws with your body's clotting system and instead of reducing clotting, it can cause clots which can cause heart attacks, strokes, etc)
5. Don't mix and match with other NSAIDs like aspriin, naproxen (aleve), toradol, meloxicam. (Tylenol OK).
6. Avoid interactions: Ibuprofen/Advil interacts, sometimes severely, with many common medications taken for chronic conditions: eg lithium, ACE inhibitors, ARBs, and anticoagulants/blood thinners, and others too innumerable to list here (talk to your prescriber)
7. Avoid the liquid gels (these spike peak plasma concentrations which means you should never take more than 400mg, all for maybe working a few minutes earlier than a 400mg non-liquid-gel dose)

Caveats:
This is what I'd do... you aren't me and I'm not you. I'm not your healthcare practitioner and I don't know your medical history. I'm not a pharmacist either so this list ain't inclusive... it's the internet, yo!

Good advice. Good buddy is an anaesthesiologist and when I was talking to him about it he was very anti taking it for more than a couple of days at most.

[3PinGrin]

Vit I (advil/ibuprofen) is pretty safe in the wilderness setting as long as you:
1. Don't take too much (Why? Vit I side effects magnify with dose, particularly nausea/vomiting/GI bleed). The bottle says take 400mg q 4-8 hours with a max of 1200mg in a day. A prescription might be up to 600mg q 6hrs or 800mg q 8hrs. I'd never take more than 800mg for an initial dose, also because taking more probably doesn't have additional positive effect while still having extra risk.
2. Don't have major internal/external hemorrhage. (Why? Vit I interferes with clotting, so if there is major bleeding or significant chest/abd trauma, or a closed head injury/concussion, I'd use tylenol instead).
3. You are hydrated (Why? it can damage your kidneys if you are dehyrdated)
4. Use it short term, ie hours/days (Why? Vit I continuously longer than 10 days can really screw with stomach and increase the risk for GI bleeds/ulcers (particularly if used with alcohol/tobacco) and screws with your body's clotting system and instead of reducing clotting, it can cause clots which can cause heart attacks, strokes, etc)
5. Don't mix and match with other NSAIDs like aspriin, naproxen (aleve), toradol, meloxicam. (Tylenol OK).
6. Avoid interactions: Ibuprofen/Advil interacts, sometimes severely, with many common medications taken for chronic conditions: eg lithium, ACE inhibitors, ARBs, and anticoagulants/blood thinners, and others too innumerable to list here (talk to your prescriber)
7. Avoid the liquid gels (these spike peak plasma concentrations which means you should never take more than 400mg, all for maybe working a few minutes earlier than a 400mg non-liquid-gel dose)

Caveats:
This is what I'd do... you aren't me and I'm not you. I'm not your healthcare practitioner and I don't know your medical history. I'm not a pharmacist either so this list ain't inclusive... it's the internet, yo!

My mom died from a massive sudden GI bleed. She had been taking lots of advil. My sister was a nursing assistant for years and kept warning her that it could be a problem. I had no idea prior to my mom passing and in my youth would pop 8 ibuprofen at a time sometimes to ward of hangovers, pain, etc. I rarely ever take even 1 pill now. Based on what my sister said it's a common cause of death among the elderly.

Back on OP topic, love my inreach Mini. Simple to use, lightweight, holds a charge a long time, always in my pack.

[user_911]

Has anyone tried or investigated the new Zoleo device?

[Kinnikinnick]

FYI
I just more or less had a search and rescue operation admit to me that PLBs activations will not receive a full throttle activation for rescue from them without more details beyond activation and location. In order to have them fly in a helicopter immediately (if possible) they will need a cell phone call or textual message relaying the situation or you’ll get the slowboat response - hike people in to investigate

Kinda sucks since thats my reason for having a PLB but I guess its a new messaging PLB instead of replacement battery for xmas.


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[summit]

FYI
I guess its a new messaging PLB instead of replacement battery for xmas.

Replacing batteries on a PLB is rarely or barely economic anyway...

2 way sat messengers are gonna cost more, but the utility is well worth it on many levels. Wouldn't you like to know that rescue is in fact coming? And when? And tell them what they should bring?

Or if you are overdue because it took you 2 hours to find your skis after the double eject, you can tell your boyfriend not to worry that you are running late, and he won't send SAR for you?

[Kinnikinnick]

I wasnt going to bring Summit SAR into it, but since you couldnt resist the insult. I think your protocol is fucked up and someone someday will die with a PLB if you treat it as you seem to.

‘Oh, a PLB activation. Lets send someone to hike in, while we call their contacts and mull whether its real emergency or just sort of. Maybe its a compound femur break or but probably not important. We don’t know so we’ll assume that its not so bad.’

I have a query into another SAR for a comparison

But its volunteer/donation funded, so we shouldnt expect any more.

This is the case that made me first buy a PLB

https://14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5844&start=396

Took 24 hours to get him in a Heli with her hiking out and the early darkness that time of year.

Following SCSAR protocol, even if they had a PLB:
1) 10:30 she activates
2) 1:00 pm sar shows
3) 4:00 they hike in and find them but now its getting dark so no Heli
4) 10 am he’s loaded into Heli and dies

Same outcome

Just call the damned Heli, it’ll save someones life.

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[summit]

someone someday will die with a PLB if you treat it as you seem to.

‘Oh, a PLB activation. Lets send someone to hike in

You are quite the drama queen aren't you? Misrepresentation is a skillset of yours, but then you are the JONG who actually thinks that the PLB always means instant helicopter despite having the risk vs cost vs uncertainty explained to you patiently, in civil tones, in detail, and repeatedly, despite your ignorant inflammatory remarks.

So tell me. If someone calls 911, hangs up, and doesn't pick up when 911 calls back what happens next? I'm guessing you don't know, so I'll narrow it down for you:

1. Dispatch sends the SWAT team, an ambulance, and two fire engines, because it could be a hostage taking arsonist who is having a heart attack.
2. Dispatch sends one cop car over, no lights and sirens, to see what is going on, then sends what is needed because it could be anything or nothing.

Now, why don't you tell me what percentage of PLB activation are false, inadvertent, unneeded, or the activator changes their mind? Less than 1 in 20 is someone genuinely in life/limb distress. Next tell me what it costs to send in a helicopter team every time a PLB goes off? Next tell me what kind of rescue to equip that team for?

Or you could stay in your lane. I promise I won't lecture you on selling houses.

[Kinnikinnick]

You are quite the drama queen aren't you? Misrepresentation is a skillset of yours, but then you are the JONG who actually thinks that the PLB always means instant helicopter despite having the risk vs cost vs uncertainty explained to you patiently, in civil tones, in detail, and repeatedly, despite your ignorant inflammatory remarks.

So tell me. If someone calls 911, hangs up, and doesn't pick up when 911 calls back what happens next? I'm guessing you don't know, so I'll narrow it down for you:

1. Dispatch sends the SWAT team, an ambulance, and two fire engines, because it could be a hostage taking arsonist who is having a heart attack.
2. Dispatch sends one cop car over, no lights and sirens, to see what is going on, then sends what is needed because it could be anything or nothing.

Now, why don't you tell me what percentage of PLB activation are false, inadvertent, unneeded, or the activator changes their mind? Next tell me what it costs to send in a helicopter team every time a PLB goes off? Next tell me what kind of rescue to equip that team for?

Or you could stay in your lane. You don't know shit. It's the backcountry, not disneyland ya kook.

Fuck you. You could have just seen my anonymized FYI and said nothing but you had to say something and not just something but fling an insult. A homophobic insult at that!!

I’ve been safely traveling in the BC longer than you have lived in CO.

Your dumbass interpretation is that PLB activations should NEVER be responded to with urgency until some other information becomes available because you dont know the details.

Every single PLB activation with a <6 hour window for lifesaving medical care and more than 3 hours hike to them with your attitude will result in a fatality. Every single one.

Your 911 example is the analogy of a dolt. My PLB wont “hang up and not answer”.
It keeps sending the signal and GPS.

And yes I probably know more about 911 call centers, wired and wireless network software, GPS, etc than all of Scummit county. I sold the Goddamned stuff to Att, Sprint, etc, etc, but Scummit is the grand expert an everyfucking thing, not.



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[Kinnikinnick]

X

[powdrhound]

One minute after my partner hit the SOS button they replied:

“Emergency Response acknowledged your emergency. “

31 minutes later:
“Emergency services are working to get to your location, please remain where you are and make yourself as visible as possible.”

YES, you want 2 way communication with them.

[summit]

You are just an excitable little fellow aren't you? You took a friendly reply and hypothetical as personal insults. Homophobia? Don't know where you got that. You must be pretty miserable always starting fights with people who are trying to help you.

You clearly don't know shit about the realities of SAR. You might know something about sales but you know nothing about rescue and risk. If you've really been skiing as long as you say, you are either the worlds luckiest SOB or you never get out, because you have no humility and no ability to judge risk.

One thing is for sure, you must be a completely different when not hiding behind a keyboard, or nobody would stomach you long enough to buy houses from you.

[Kinnikinnick]

You are just an excitable little fellow aren't you? You took a friendly reply and hypothetical as personal insults. Homophobia? Don't know where you got that. You must be pretty miserable always starting fights with people who are trying to help you.

You clearly don't know shit about the realities of SAR. You might know something about sales but you know nothing about rescue and risk.

One thing is for sure, you must be a completely different when not hiding behind a keyboard, or nobody would stomach you long enough to buy houses from you.

Actually I’m a lot bigger than the little knowitall twerp that you are, short man.

You telling me that I had to contact my Boyfriend? Neither a homosexual reference, nor an insult?

I only occasionally sell houses, mostly because I hate dealing with asses like you, but a simpleton like knows everything.




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[summit]

You telling me that I had to contact my Boyfriend? Neither a homosexual reference, nor an insult?

It was at the end of series of hypotheticals (a 2 way sat msgr user can be any sex or orientation). Someone not looking for slight in every sentence wouldn't need that explained. You took a hypothetical example as 1. personal 2. an insult. Do you think homosexuality is a bad thing or something? Sounds like you are the homophobe?

Would you like to borrow a shovel to keep digging for that humility?