Snow in the PNW 17-18: Dropping!

[PNW_Skier206]

I don't believe they asked to?

I heard they tried to a few years back and forest service rejected it.


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[Buster Highmen]

I don't believe they asked to?

Actually it was proposed as one of the early alternatives in the 1997 MDP. AI George was all for it as was Louie.

I seeded the FS with the idea that Silver Basin is the highest aquifer in the Silver Creek drainage and that in order to keep our bodily fluids pure, we should keep our highest aquifers pure.

That was before Uberagua tried to slide in the clauses about closing the park boundaries.

[PNWbrit]

Actually it was proposed as one of the early alternatives in the 1997 MDP. AI George was all for it as was Louie.

I seeded the FS with the idea that Silver Basin is the highest aquifer in the Silver Creek drainage and that in order to keep our bodily fluids pure, we should keep our highest aquifers pure.

That was before Uberagua tried to slide in the clauses about closing the park boundaries.

I didn't recall it being part of the uberagua boundary dispute.

P.O.E....?

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[Buster Highmen]

I didn't recall it being part of the uberagua boundary dispute.

P.O.E....?

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All of that was part of the Master Development Plan that went on for several years. I wrote a number of opinions on it.
Uberagua tried to modify all of the final 6 alternatives at the very last moment and only those who had participated in the MDP were allowed to file complaints.

See 1.1.5 here : https://books.google.com/books?id=FZ...atives&f=false

[Greydon Clark]

First thing I'd do is build a pay toilet in Greenwater.

[Zeedashbo]

East Peak Chair...East Peak Chair...East Peak Chair.

C'mon, don't waste resources on putting more lifts onto slopes already crowded.

Please consider East Peak or at least a chair out of B lot up to Right Angle.

Yeah that'd be great for the touring crowd. The one area that isn't controlled by the Gestapo being put into nazi hands isn't very nice.

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[Buster Highmen]

Yeah that'd be great for the touring crowd. The one area that isn't controlled by the Gestapo being put into nazi hands isn't very nice.

That's not quite true since there's access up Norse Peak from a little further down the access road.
That objection is being managed by approving a lift 3/4 of the way up into the basin. That doesn't really satisfy either perspective.

[PNWbrit]

First thing I'd do is build a pay toilet in Greenwater.

How much are willing to pay for Greenwater toilet use?

[PNW_Skier206]

How much are willing to pay for Greenwater toilet use?

I’d consider. Usually by Greenwater I’ve chugged a couple cups of coffee and am worried about making it the rest of the way.


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[ACH]

How much are willing to pay for Greenwater toilet use?

Card swipe and charge is relative to demand and time spent shitting on the shitter?

[Norseman]

That's not quite true since there's access up Norse Peak from a little further down the access road.
That objection is being managed by approving a lift 3/4 of the way up into the basin. That doesn't really satisfy either perspective.

The convenience of skinning into vast ski terrain via Bullion is currently high... 6" of snow on the Gold Hills road and it's good to go. Good access in the early season and all winter long, etc... one of the few in the state not affected by Natl Park bullshit or WSDOT waverings.

Not the case anywhere else along the Dweebus corridor... shit gets dense lower down and needs base to manage the pube attack.

It'll be interesting to see how the resort accommodates the touring crowd once the East Peak chair is built. Sure hope they will still allow us to skin into Bullion from the base. I also wonder about how the sidecountry liftriders will approach the "new" terrain, especially if the 3/4 length lift still leaves a healthy bootpack/skin to jet north/east... with a bigger effort to return. Won't be the same dynamic as Silver basin or even Morse Cr and Sourdough.

[PNWbrit]

Card swipe and charge is relative to demand and time spent shitting on the shitter?

Maybe an App?

[carlh]

Hows the pass snow holding up this week? Anyone want to do a short mid-day tour tomorrow off I90?

[XavierD]

Until mt dweebus starts charging everyone for parking I don’t think they have much of any obligation to accommodate the touring crowd. It’s definitely great access, and will be even better when you can take a lift to the top. Perhaps they could sell single ride tickets up east peak?

Or just do what every local ski area needed to start doing two seasons ago and charge for all parking (peak times at a minimum) while religiously towing violators.

[Buster Highmen]

The convenience of skinning into vast ski terrain via Bullion is currently high... 6" of snow on the Gold Hills road and it's good to go. Good access in the early season and all winter long, etc... one of the few in the state not affected by Natl Park bullshit or WSDOT waverings.

True, it's convenient.

Not the case anywhere else along the Dweebus corridor... shit gets dense lower down and needs base to manage the pube attack.

Not entirely true. See Halfcamp trailhead below gated Gold Creek road angles up.

see https://www.wta.org/go-hiking/trip-r...-22.7737255008

It'll be interesting to see how the resort accommodates the touring crowd once the East Peak chair is built. Sure hope they will still allow us to skin into Bullion from the base. I also wonder about how the sidecountry liftriders will approach the "new" terrain, especially if the 3/4 length lift still leaves a healthy bootpack/skin to jet north/east... with a bigger effort to return. Won't be the same dynamic as Silver basin or even Morse Cr and Sourdough.

This is the weirdness. The concession to the touring crowd is to build a lift 3/4 of the way up, but not to the top of East Peak which satisfies fully neither objective.

[PNWbrit]

Permit for East Peak chair doesn't allow it to go to top, or even close.. (if they ever now actually build it)

There would inevitably have to be some restriction of climbing above the chair/that area when ski area operating.

Towing parking violators in crammed, already overflowing and often snow covered parking lots is going to need more than religion.

obligation to accommodate the touring crowd.

Yep... If the ski area wasn't there and plowing the road all winter they'd be touring from 410.

[Norseman]

Not entirely true. See Halfcamp trailhead below gated Gold Creek road angles up.

see https://www.wta.org/go-hiking/trip-r...-22.7737255008

Yes, that trail exists, but it has space for like 3 cars and is 400ft lower than C lot... takes a decent amount of snow to make the trail skiable (more than Bullion), and pegs you into luge trail skiing slightly more.

This is the weirdness. The concession to the touring crowd is to build a lift 3/4 of the way up, but not to the top of East Peak which satisfies fully neither objective.

That is kinda weird. Is there any other reason for having the top terminal lower? Less wind exposure maybe?

I bet they're somewhat wary of having to regularly deploy the reds to scrape ignorant asses out of the adjacent acreage if they can just ski into it off the top. Dunno

[PNWbrit]

That is kinda weird. Is there any other reason for having the top terminal lower?

The PCT

[Norseman]

The PCT

Why? Sorry if I'm being dense.

Seems like a pretty simple obstacle for a chairlift.

[PNWbrit]

Why? Sorry if I'm being dense.

Seems like a pretty simple obstacle for a chairlift.

Apparently it's more of an emotional problem for the PCTers/Sierra Club than a physical one.

Which is just fucking stupid. IMHO

[Norseman]

Ah, so the trail advocate groups were involved in the formal FS comment period... makes sense I guess.

Seems like a silly issue.. that a hiker might have to walk under a chairlift or have one in their viewshed. The PCT already goes under three lifts at Snoqualmie and two at Stevens, and comes close at White.

I think I still have a copy of the 2004 Master Plan Record of Decision in my camper but it's been a while since I looked at it. The East Pk chair was not a FS-approved alternative at that time due to the concern of increasing human impacts in the Norse pk wilderness and diminishing the value of touring in the area.

Anyone have a more recent document than the 2004 ROD? Curious about lift placement, also about how the demand/politics have changed the FS view on the topic.

[PNWbrit]

Shows Bullion/EP chair as permitted.

[Norseman]

Shows Bullion/EP chair as permitted.

That is the same map that the 2004 doc contains.

So the current thought is that the East Pk chair would follow the same alignment as the old Bullion Basin chair? It wouldn't be the best track if the lift were to end any higher.

I guess I had it in my mind that they considered going to the summit of East Pk, which would be a very different alignment of course, but compromised with a foreshortened liftline.

[PNWbrit]

That is the same map that the 2004 doc contains.

So the current thought is that the East Pk chair would follow the same alignment as the old Bullion Basin chair? It wouldn't be the best track if the lift were to end any higher.

I guess I had it in my mind that they considered going to the summit of East Pk, which would be a very different alignment of course.

That's my understanding and all that's permitted at moment I believe... Putting in that lower chair does make sense if there is an ultimate goal, or any possibility of going to EP proper in future with a second chair... avoiding the need to ski the lower mountain.

[TAFKALVS]

I'm confused why there ins't chair planned for some of the other basins inside the permit boundary? With the global warminz and everything I'd think most ski areas would be wanting to develop as much north facing high elevation terrain as possible. I suppose the MDP probably doesn't tell the entire picture..