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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    I'm pretty sure at least some of those photos, from what I recall, were of women who very clearly knew they were being photographed. I think some even had stickers or something that to me implied they knew where the photos would end up.

    Were there women in that thread who didn't know they were being photographed? I actually couldn't say. Haven't seen it for quite some time, but I don't remember noticing that some of the photos had been taken surreptitiously. Maybe I should have. If they were then I think in some places that might represent a crime, these days.
    The sticker pictures are a minority... and if there is a reasonable likelihood some of the pictures are not consensual is it ok to allow it?

  2. #102
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    These acts are not acts of sex but acts of violence against a person viewed as weaker. Sex is just a tool


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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudpeak View Post
    I could be mistaken, but I think neck beard was saying that porn leads to people thinking objectification of women in the real world is acceptable and the norm.
    Porn is objectification of women. It doesn't just promote it, it IS IT.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    The sticker pictures are a minority... and if there is a reasonable likelihood some of the pictures are not consensual is it ok to allow it?
    No. Of course we then could get into a whole debate about reasonable likelihood, and ultimately everyone needs to be responsible for their own actions, but just like this other shit taking photos of someone I'm involved with when they don't know it is so far beyond the pale...yet again, I just can't imagine having the inclination, and I think it reflects a true lack of respect for whoever the photographed person is. In a way it comes back to the golden rule, at some level--how would you feel if the roles were reversed? I guess a lack of empathy, as I think James mentioned, is also at play here.

    But as far as that thread specifically goes, I will say that I just don't remember noticing pictures that seemed to be taken w/o subject's knowledge. I also probably missed a lot of the recent shots.
    [quote][//quote]

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    I'm PRETTY sure I could have watched porn 24/7 growing up and still would not have had any desire for a sexual encounter with another dude.
    so you're saying there's a chance? with the lights out to escape your shame?


  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    ...but a rise in male bisexuality?? What? I'm pretty sure I could have watched porn 24/7 growing up and still would not have had any desire for a sexual encounter with another dude. To me that would be like saying that if you show a gay guy enough nude women he would be willing to give girls a try. I have some trouble believing that.
    It isn't my conjecture. And it is way off topic.

    But as I understand it, the idea does not refer to sexuality (gay, straight etc). Only the desire to get your rocks off with other willing humans. Some say endless internet porn is opening that door.
    Life is not lift served.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by detrusor View Post
    These acts are not acts of sex but acts of violence against a person viewed as weaker. Sex is just a tool


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    It's tied together. Plenty of men would never think of harassing or assaulting a woman, but think women are less smart, less capable, inherently crazy... whatever.

  8. #108
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    this thread reminds me of a ongoing education community college gender studies class men:women::15:1


    there's a reason there are almost no women here.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    Porn is objectification of women. It doesn't just promote it, it IS IT.
    What about gay porn? I doubt there are many women appearing who can be objectified. What about porn made by women? Porn that is made for women? I just don't think you can make a statement like that and be certain it is true.

    Nude paintings? Arguably no different than some porn. Are you saying the same thing about that? Literature that depicts sex? I just don't think your generalization makes sense.
    [quote][//quote]

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    What about gay porn? I doubt there are many women appearing who can be objectified. What about porn made by women? Porn that is made for women? I just don't think you can make a statement like that and be certain it is true.

    Nude paintings? Arguably no different than some porn. Are you saying the same thing about that? Literature that depicts sex? I just don't think your generalization makes sense.
    shocker

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    Porn is objectification of women. It doesn't just promote it, it IS IT.
    What about gay porn?

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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyeaster View Post
    so you're saying there's a chance? with the lights out to escape your shame?

    Point taken. Probably should have said 'very' sure, but on the other hand if I had been subjected to porn 24/7 growing up having a desire for dick might be the least of the changes.
    [quote][//quote]

  13. #113
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    At the end of the day people are still animals and animals want to fuck. Porn makes it easier to go fuck yourself.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    No. Of course we then could get into a whole debate about reasonable likelihood, and ultimately everyone needs to be responsible for their own actions, but just like this other shit taking photos of someone I'm involved with when they don't know it is so far beyond the pale...yet again, I just can't imagine having the inclination, and I think it reflects a true lack of respect for whoever the photographed person is. In a way it comes back to the golden rule, at some level--how would you feel if the roles were reversed? I guess a lack of empathy, as I think James mentioned, is also at play here.

    But as far as that thread specifically goes, I will say that I just don't remember noticing pictures that seemed to be taken w/o subject's knowledge. I also probably missed a lot of the recent shots.
    Quote Originally Posted by booner View Post
    EC just opening up...

    My friend is willing to help bring some storms

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    Nicely done.

    By willing, you mean "not paying attention for a few seconds"
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    Details...who needs em
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    Strong work, bodacious tot totas.
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    Please tell me that is a Santa suit looker's left of the pic and you picked her up at the mall and her kids are in the car.
    Quote Originally Posted by cinnepa View Post
    ^^^......and the car still running.
    I changed the image to a link. It is not safe for work.

    Put your money where your mouth is.

    I have been told I'm a piece of shit person who should die for voicing an unpopular opinion in a way you all don't like.

    There are pages and pages tearing pio apart for being annoying.

    Here, posting a woman's breasts when she doesn't know it is praised. No one says a word.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    At the end of the day people are still animals and animals want to fuck.
    I think there's far more truth in this statement than most people realize or want to admit.
    "They don't think it be like it is, but it do."

  16. #116
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    OK, I haven't really looked at the quotes/link, but WTF does the rest of your post have to do with this? Am I missing something? I haven't seen anyone here call you a piece of shit person or say you should die.
    [quote][//quote]

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    Correct. It will never go away. It is booming. The only thing left is to work with it for something good where possible. Perhaps that is to use it to break down the things like you say: "puritan roots and our culture difficulty with separating sexuality and nudity".

    Imagine a really far-fetched and hypothetical world where sexuality and, well, sex, was so normal and comfortable (via internet pron ubiquity??!) that objectification of women no longer had any value. Sooner or later, against the tidal wave of internet porn, parents and society may have to educate their kids along the lines of "its just sex, in any imaginable form, get over it, no big deal. All that matters is respect and consent."

    Humans, particularly men, need to evolve. Internet porn might promote that? Dunno.

    Sex will never go away. Best to start managing its role in society.

    What will be harder to change is how men use their power over vulnerable people, mostly women. Sex is just tool.
    Agreed.
    Isn't this what the entire "sex positive" community is about? I know a bunch of them (through Burner circles) including several who consider themselves sex positive/consent educators and also consider myself part of that movement. Sex in all its forms (including the violent/objectifying ones) are not bad. What is bad is trying to engage someone else in anything without their active consent. Hell, I went to Dan Savage's Hump Fest last weekend and there were films with all sorts of scenarios in there where people are objectified, and had some pretty extreme things done to them but it was all with their consent. It is all about power. We need to active work to educate both our boys and girls on sex and consent, and not just the mechanics of sex. I read a piece that right now sex ed is like running a drivers ed class that only teaches how an internal combustion engine works and not actually how to drive a car. We need to be teaching our children how to be good drivers and we need to be teaching them how to be good at sex (including consent). And the most important companion to that is we need to actively stamp out harassment and rape culture and empower women economically, politically, and socially so they are truly seen as equals.
    "Great barbecue makes you want to slap your granny up the side of her head." - Southern Saying

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    It's tied together. Plenty of men would never think of harassing or assaulting a woman, but think women are less smart, less capable, inherently crazy... whatever.
    This is an important point. It's the subtle and not so subtle acceptance of woman as "lesser."
    Keep it off my wave...Soundgarden

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    It's tied together. Plenty of men would never think of harassing or assaulting a woman, but think women are less smart, less capable, inherently crazy... whatever.
    And plenty of men don't do either. And yet... I see plenty of the same in reverse, with women being condescending towards men as parents and in other walks of life and it's almost never, ever called out. These issues are always getting painted as black and white when it's gray as hell.

    BTW - women's bodies ARE for sex. So are men's bodies. Let's not dive so deep into culture that we ignore basic biology.

  20. #120
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    As much misogyny, sexism, and objectification of women as there is on this forum I don't understand how anyone could be surprised about the Weinsteins, etc, etc, etc, etc of the world. (I don't claim to be 100% innocent.) Just "locker room talk"? Locker room talk is what creates an atmosphere where some people feel ok acting it out. The only thing that keeps more men from acting it out is lack of status to get away with it.
    With Trump, Weinstein, etc, it's the modern version of primae noctis (which apparently is a myth btw, the feudal version, that is, not the modern version.)

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    I changed the image to a link. It is not safe for work.

    Put your money where your mouth is.

    I have been told I'm a piece of shit person who should die for voicing an unpopular opinion in a way you all don't like.

    There are pages and pages tearing pio apart for being annoying.

    Here, posting a woman's breasts when she doesn't know it is praised. No one says a word.
    OK, so I looked at the photo and yeah, it certainly could be that she didn't know about the photo. But I wouldn't necessarily assume that. I can't quite follow it all in terms of who was saying what, but it appears to me that the guy who posted it said she was willing, and then someone else joked that she didn't know.

    The debate about that thread seems slightly beside the point (although clearly related), but I will admit that since the idea of taking and posting photos like those without the subject's knowledge seems completely out of bounds to me I may not have recognized that that was indeed the case for some of those shots. And yeah, I would agree it comes back to a misogynistic mindset that is at least partially based on objectifying women.
    [quote][//quote]

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    And plenty of men don't do either. And yet... I see plenty of the same in reverse, with women being condescending towards men as parents and in other walks of life and it's almost never, ever called out. These issues are always getting painted as black and white when it's gray as hell.

    BTW - women's bodies ARE for sex. So are men's bodies. Let's not dive so deep into culture that we ignore basic biology.
    No. Sex is one thing women can do with their bodies.

    Women's bodies are not for sex.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    OK, so I looked at the photo and yeah, it certainly could be that she didn't know about the photo. But I wouldn't necessarily assume that. I can't quite follow it all in terms of who was saying what, but it appears to me that the guy who posted it said she was willing, and then someone else joked that she didn't know.

    The debate about that thread seems slightly beside the point (although clearly related), but I will admit that since the idea of taking and posting photos like those without the subject's knowledge seems completely out of bounds to me I may not have recognized that that was indeed the case for some of those shots. And yeah, I would agree it comes back to a misogynistic mindset that is at least partially based on objectifying women.
    The poster admits that it was taken without consent. Joking or not, it's hard to say.

    Not one person said not cool dude.

    Actually, I'm gonna go say not cool right now!

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    The poster admits that it was taken without consent. Joking or not, it's hard to say.

    Not one person said not cool dude.

    Actually, I'm gonna go say not cool right now!
    No, he actually said the opposite--he said she was willing. Someone else then made a joke about it, but he never admitted otherwise, and I actually tend to think the guy was honestly saying that she knew she had been photographed and was OK with it. Not seeing why you would assume otherwise based on some posts that were clearly making light of it.
    [quote][//quote]

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    BTW - women's bodies ARE for sex. So are men's bodies. Let's not dive so deep into culture that we ignore basic biology.
    This is one of those subtle ways of objectifying women. Women's bodies are also for things like skiing, bike riding, running, soccer, walking down the street or sitting in a chair. Women own their bodies, and women's bodies are not men's playthings. Think about this with regard to Part 2 or the Ullr thread.
    Keep it off my wave...Soundgarden

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