gorrilla glue for binding screws is the way to go

[bodywhomper]

^ You can buy chopped fiberglass from boat repair supply shops, in any length you want. Don't get it in your shirt though.

I prefer to mount shirtless. Pants are optional.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

[GeezerSteve]

The reason shops don't tap and use epoxy isn't because it provides an inferior mount, it's because it doubles the mount time. I almost never used epoxy as a tech, but I use it on my own skis now. I don't really care what the rest of you do.

It's been decades since I was a shop rat but this analogous to my experience. Even way back then we used woodworker's glue marketed as ski binding glue for customer mounts and epoxy for all of our own skis.

For awhile I tried 3M marine adhesive. It's waterproof but stuck to screws terribly, worse than I've ever seen with epoxy.

Yeah, I shouldn't care what others do -- unless they are my touring partners, which is not an issue because I do all their mounts. I shouldn't take the bait on a thread declaring that a single method "is the way to go."

for those of you using epoxy as a structural element. . . .

Dunno if that's directed at me. My point is that the epoxy soaks into the core around the screw, creating a very tough resin/wood "plug" surrounding the screw. (This is why I turn skis bases up while the epoxy sets.) I don't see how mixing in fiberglass shards in the epoxy would enhance the resin soaking into the core and creating the reinforcement plug, although I suppose it would hurt anything. Note that I always tap and very careful to never overtorque.

[galibier_numero_un]

The reason shops don't tap and use epoxy isn't because it provides an inferior mount, it's because it doubles the mount time. I almost never used epoxy as a tech, but I use it on my own skis now. I don't really care what the rest of you do.

^^^ This ^^^ Time is money, but as DIY-ers it doesn't factor into the equation.

... Yeah, I shouldn't care what others do -- unless they are my touring partners, but that's not an issue because I do all their mounts. I shouldn't take the bait on a thread declaring that a single method "is the way to go.".

Analogous to when you're buddy's beacon is crap, you swap beacons


... Thom

[Dexter Rutecki]

I shouldn't take the bait on a thread declaring that a single method "is the way to go."

Yes, those words are in the thread title, but from the very first words in the first post of the thread I think you can see that that is not what this thread is doing.

My conclusion is that there really isn't consensus on this, but that in all likelihood GG will probably be fine.

FWIW, I've used everything from Elmer's glue to epoxy to nothing and have never had an issue (so based on my own experience it doesn't matter at all), but I still would like to know if there is one method that is objectively better than the others.

[californiagrown]

Only time ive ever had a binding rip out was when i flew Delta home from college and the baggage handlers managed to rip out the rear two screws on my heel piece. I was kinda impressed.

It sounds like, just like growing weed, there are a shit ton of methods and materials people use to mount skis (some half baked, some science based), but they all generally work pretty well as long as you follow the very basics.

[GeezerSteve]

. . . but I still would like to know if there is one method that is objectively better than the others.

Zeno's test results and supplementation thereof (2nd set of tests), originally posted on TTips, suggests that tapping + epoxy results in better pullout resistance, i.e., tapped + epoxied mounts required greater force to pull out screws. Zeno's tests appeared to be objective and pretty well controlled, i.e., similar screw torquing, similar ski cores. I don't know where those test results are available now that TTips is dead. Zeno's pullout test results are consistent with my own informal testing a few years ago.

As I've stated before on this thread and other threads, most anything (except spinners) works for alpine bindings so long as it keeps water from contaminating teh core. But pullouts can happen on tech toes, tele bindings and some XC bindings because those are subject to much greater pullout forces. Some tele binding designs, e.g., BD 01, were especially prone to pullouts.

[XXX-er]

i've structurally rebuilt stripped holes with 2 parts slowset/ FG which I would not attempt with GG or wood glue

on the the other end of the spectrum I am pretty sure I watched a vid where the bindings were being mounted on race skis with nothing, i assume they may not have had any glue and they were just gona skis these for a short time on a hard piste

[tenB]

I use 3M 4000 Marine Adhesive. It seals, makes a solid bond with the threads and there is only a quick crack sound when removing screws. I've compared many skis with epoxy vs 4000 adhesive and the adhesive definitely stands the test of time and doesn't become brittle.

The 3M 5200 is amazing stuff but makes a more permanent bond and a total mess of the screws when you take them out.

[buttahflake]

For the fucking love of Christ, man. The glue has nothing to do with retention. It lubricates and seals water out.
Take laps

[Peruvian]

Just mounted up some fresh sleds and used Titebond III, like always.

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

What "others" said that? I've done hundreds of mounts with epoxy and none of those problems has ever occurred. Do you have any direct experience?

I've done hundreds of thousands of mounts in my lifetime (25 years full time seasonal ski mounter) and I will tell you... Epoxy is for making or repairing skis, not for mounting them.
Epoxy is overkill. It ruins core material. It ruins screws.
Sure, there are folks who have figured out tricks to mitigate the problems of using epoxy (soldering irons, greasing the screw threads, impact drivers, etc,..) but there are way better adhesives available.

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

For the fucking love of Christ, man. The glue has nothing to do with retention. It lubricates and seals water out.
Take laps

BOOM!

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

If you want a bomber binding mount, don't epoxy your screws in. Instal Quiver Killers (or Binding Freedom) inserts instead!
Better.

[buttahflake]

Dudes for real, y'all are overthinking the fuck out of this. Fucking epoxy?
Jesus Christ

[XXX-er]

.
Sure, there are folks who have figured out tricks to mitigate the problems of using epoxy (soldering irons, greasing the screw threads, impact drivers, etc,.

we can't stop those other people from owning tools

or guns

[swissiphic]

Thread drift but thought i'd mention it...Bindings screwed into chunks of cutting board, cleaned mating surfaces of ski topsheets and mount plates, apply two sheets of double sided carpet tape, heat with hot air gun, attach mounting plates to ski and clamp overnight with c clamps...done. I use this system for testing out mount points on new skis before commiting to drilling. Always amazed at the durability of the temp mount...have to use heat to loosen the bond and pry the plates off after testing is complete. Tried this system in below freezing and in wet, warm spring sunny conditions...the damn things held tight. Didn't venture too far from the ski hill but felt confident enough to ski hard in breakable spring refreeze crust and deep slushy wet grains on one test day...with a different ski on each foot to compare/contrast ski characteristics. Your results may vary.

edit: forgot to mention that I was ski touring...considering the torque loads transferred to the dynafit toe piece, it's really amazing that the damn things held tight...even had one uphill of sidehilling on pretty firm crust and kicking in the heels for better grip; thought for sure that would crack the bond of the heel mount plate..it held fast as well.

[1000-oaks]

^ Impressive.

[Peruvian]

Dudes for real, y'all are overthinking the fuck out of this. Fucking epoxy?
Jesus Christ

Interesting “Shop Binding Mounting Instructions” on my new DPS skis.


Check out #5.

[buttahflake]

You bought a DPS? Oh boy.

[Peruvian]

You bought a DPS? Oh boy.

Needed to replace a beat down pair of Black Diamonds.

[::: :::]

Thread drift but thought i'd mention it...Bindings screwed into chunks of cutting board, cleaned mating surfaces of ski topsheets and mount plates, apply two sheets of double sided carpet tape, heat with hot air gun, attach mounting plates to ski and clamp overnight with c clamps...done. I use this system for testing out mount points on new skis before commiting to drilling. Always amazed at the durability of the temp mount...have to use heat to loosen the bond and pry the plates off after testing is complete. Tried this system in below freezing and in wet, warm spring sunny conditions...the damn things held tight. Didn't venture too far from the ski hill but felt confident enough to ski hard in breakable spring refreeze crust and deep slushy wet grains on one test day...with a different ski on each foot to compare/contrast ski characteristics. Your results may vary.

edit: forgot to mention that I was ski touring...considering the torque loads transferred to the dynafit toe piece, it's really amazing that the damn things held tight...even had one uphill of sidehilling on pretty firm crust and kicking in the heels for better grip; thought for sure that would crack the bond of the heel mount plate..it held fast as well.

wow, well done...thx for sharing

[2FUNKY]

Epoxy is overkill. It ruins core material. It ruins screws.
.

Please explain this. I know that epoxy can interact with skis that have a foam core which I couldn't care less since I'll never own a foam core ski, but I have never had an issue with epoxy "ruining" the core of my skis or interacting in a negative way with the binding materials used in the build of a ski. As a matter of fact, per the owner/builder of some skis I own directly suggested the use of epoxy when mounting bindings.

I have been using epoxy for my binding mounts for fucking ever and never had an issue with water intrusion, rusted screws, ruined cores, pulled binding or anything else. All screws have removed just fine with a strong grip on the driver.

[buttahflake]

Needed to replace a beat down pair of Black Diamonds.

Do you have a thing for foam core skis?
Yeesh

[gregorys]

The reason shops don't tap and use epoxy isn't because it provides an inferior mount, it's because it doubles the mount time. I almost never used epoxy as a tech, but I use it on my own skis now. I don't really care what the rest of you do.

Word! Well said!

[Peruvian]

Do you have a thing for foam core skis?
Yeesh

Paulownia, bamboo, and poplar ain't maple, but it's hardly old school foam.