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  1. #26
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    Nov 2014
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    310
    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    I use long set epoxy (e.g., West Marine) for all ski mounts. I've tried other glues but always come back to long-set epoxy. Polyurethane glue is not waterproof, and is merely water resistant, less so than long set epoxy. PU glue also has lower peel and shear strength than epoxy. Titebond (II or III) is weaker yet, marketed as waterproof but it's not, as evinced by rusty screws.
    This...

    Titebond has a marine grade epoxy that's typically available at Home Depot which has worked just as well (2-part, 24hr). Not much more of a PITA than single bottle stuff with the applicator tips. I just put mine in an old medicine dropper.

    Never used GG on skis, but used it on other stuff and found the expansion to be undesirable. Maybe I used too much, but there certainly wasn't any water present to cause the expansion.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    Original GG is recommended by DPS for their skis. Just FYI.

    Not saying it's the best; just an approved option.
    True - but Marshal has also said on here somewhere that regular (waterproof) wood glue is absolutely fine on the Hybrid line, and they are more analogous to most skis people will be mounting.

  3. #28
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    I've talked to SVST multiple times regarding their formulation for their SVST Binding & Hole Plug Glue & Sealant. They maintain it is waterproof 'SEALANT' and lubricant vs water resistant glue and is better to use than typical wood glue. YMMV

    Specially formulated for mounting bindings to skis. Forms a water proof seal between mounting screw and ski. Prevents screws from loosening up. Adheres to both wood and metal. Safe to use on wood or foam core skis.
    Remember the screw creates the mechanical connection between binding and ski. A sealant keeps the water out not a bond. Zillions of skis are mounted without epoxy and work fine. If you feel epoxy gives you better piece of mind, go for it. There are many long cure epoxies that will work fine. Hardman High Peel strength Orange or General Purpose work fine for screws and definitely inserts and come in small packs vs dealing with larger quantities. Personally, if I was going to epoxy screws, I might as well install inserts for an even more bomber installation.
    Best regards, Terry
    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

    SlideWright.com
    Ski, Snowboard & Bike Tools, Wax and Wares
    Repair, Waxing, Tuning, Mounting Tips & more

  4. #29
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    Feb 2007
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    445
    I've historically used gorilla wood glue and never had rusting screws or a pull out due to rot. I did have a shop mounted ski binding rip out due to rot so YMMV on shop installs with cheap glue. Best to follow the Mount Your Own Fucking Skis thread for guidance.

  5. #30
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    We use this at the shop.

    crab in my shoe mouth

  6. #31
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    Dec 2010
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    27
    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    for some things, like delams, I think epoxy is a better choice. I'm sure you can get PU to work fine, but IMO epoxy's more appropriate, and there's a reason they use epoxy to build the ski in the first place.
    I totally agree with this statement/logic. But it is really tough to work epoxy all the way under the delam (suggestions?). The right tip delam is sort of doable (you can pry it open a bit), but along the edge of the ski, it's pretty much impossible. OTOH moisture + GG seems to make it suck in there nicely.

    First try with GG was on a nearly junk pair of skis. I was concerned GG might not bond well with non-wood surfaces, but it worked out great. I've used GG for 3 delams since, and none have popped despite hard use.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by skizix View Post
    But it is really tough to work epoxy all the way under the delam (suggestions?).
    splat suggested a long while back to use a hair dryer or heat gun on the epoxy, after applying it to the inside of the separation, in order to thin it out and make it runny. It works well. I pry open the crack a little with a flathead screwdriver and heat gun the epoxy into the void.

    I use a 2-part 24-hour marine epoxy for binding mounts now. IIRC it's Loctite brand -- nothing fancy, just something I got at Home Depot or Lowe's. The two separate bottles are easier to work with than the 2-piece syringe type.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  8. #33
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    Below is a pic of rusty binding screws, Titebond II used in mount. (Pic is from Zeno's now hard to find pullout test). I have seen similarly rusted screws in Titebond mounts.

    Those are the results I was alluding to. Of course, it's a long term test and it's on you guys to see what works on your skis. Eons ago, I used to use regular 'ol Titebond (I? II? can't remember) and got those results. I'm sure it wasn't Titebond III.

    At the end of the day, and in a non-ski shop environment (where time is money), I'll continue to use G Flex. It adds a bit of time to the mount, but it's not as if I'm doing 50 mounts/day. The stuff really is flexible. I schmeared some leftover on a piece of cardboard, and the next day, you could flex the hell out of it and it didn't crack.

    It sounds as if Gorilla Glue can work, but monitoring it one turn at a time sounds like a lot of work in comparison with mixing up a batch of epoxy. Everyone has a different idea of fun however ;-)

    There are times when I like to trust my instincts and experimentation, and there are times when it seems much simpler to apply overkill to the job (that means marine epoxy for me).

    I'd expect the SVST stuff to work as well (I trust Terry/Slidewright).

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  9. #34
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    Dec 2004
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    Yeah, for anything but the screws, definitely use epoxy.

    I recently filled some lateral topsheet wrinkles (minor delam caught early) at the tip spacers with heated G/Flex. Used tape to make a little epoxy basin at the sidewall, drilled small holes at the end of each wrinkle, and used a cheap ebay windshield repair kit to pull a vacuum inside the wrinkle to draw the epoxy through. Pain in the ass, but worked like a charm to save a pair of skis that aren't made anymore.

  10. #35
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    Feb 2008
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    ^^^Great idea!

    I have used WEST systems epoxy for many years. Currently use their Gflex to mount skis.
    Do not count the days

    Make the days count.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    87
    Another vote for the original Gorilla Glue based on my recent observations of many screws installed over a number of years by myself coming out of skis shiny and clean/being able to re-use holes with no spinners. The first mount I did many eons ago used "waterproof" pro grade wood glue. The screws in those skis were rusty when I pulled them out. Maybe there's better wood glue, but I know that GG works, so why fuck around? Concerns with base bubbles/hydraulic pressure/mess/not curing due to lack of moisture etc. are not warranted at all. Put a little dab in each hole, crank the screws down and be done with it.
    As others have mentioned, epoxy seems like a good way to get screws stuck in skis/damage cores trying to get them out/fuck up subsequent mounts due to epoxy globs on screws. If we nailed our bindings on I'd be all for epoxy, but screws don't need it IMO. YMMV/do what works for you.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reformed View Post
    As others have mentioned, epoxy seems like a good way to get screws stuck in skis/damage cores trying to get them out/fuck up subsequent mounts due to epoxy globs on screws.
    What "others" said that? I've done hundreds of mounts with epoxy and none of those problems has ever occurred. Do you have any direct experience?

  13. #38
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    Dec 2004
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    I'm no shop pro, but on two occasions I've had globs of epoxy stay on the screws and tear out the threads cut into the ski when I didn't know I was dealing with epoxy (used skis that were new to me), so I didn't heat up the screws with a soldering iron first.

    Unless a ski is really fragile, I don't see why using GG to keep water out plus the mechanical attachment of the screw threads wouldn't be adequate for most mounts (assuming the screws aren't over-torqued and on the verge of being spinners). Sure, using epoxy would definitely be more bomber (and a whole lot better if the screws are about to be spinners), but isn't it overkill for most skis?

    Edit: I was only thinking about alpine skis ^, not tech/tele/xc.
    Last edited by 1000-oaks; 11-06-2017 at 11:06 PM.
    FS: NIB G3 Ion Crampons, all widths
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  14. #39
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    Well, this has been discussed before in many threads. IME, epoxy is not overkill. Epoxy increases the strength of the weakest link in the chain. That's particularly important with tech bnidngs, tele bindings and XC bindings, which are subject to higher pullout forces (at the toe) than alpine bindings. Epoxy seeps into the wood core, creating a very tough wood/resin area around the screw. If it's done right, a very strong resin/wood female thread will result. IMO the resulting resin/wood reinforcement is why tapped and epoxied mounts tested strongest in Zeno's pullout tests. Based on my experience with polyurethane glue for other applications, I doubt it percolates and penetrates the ski core like epoxy.

    Polyurethane glue might be okay for most mounts. Tech and XC binding mounts aren't most mounts, but they are 90% of the mounts I do these days.

    Re epoxy sticking to screws, there are a couple easy and simple ways to avoid that.

  15. #40
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    Dec 2009
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    87
    Was referring to the "How to remove stripped binding screws" threads that pop up semi-regularly. I agree that this is usually user error/ignorance, but epoxy often plays a role in these scenarios.
    I have had epoxy stick to a screw and cause a spinner on a subsequent mount. Again, user error, but something that likely wouldn't happen with other types of glue.
    All I'm suggesting is that epoxy might contribute to other problems while solving one that doesn't always exist. Maximum pull out strength is not a factor for the vast majority of users. For me it's not, so I don't feel the need to use epoxy. Have I? Sure, but only on spinners and holes I wasn't comfortable with.

  16. #41
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    Aug 2006
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    2,707
    At marmot, rod would swiss cheese his tele skis to experiment with different binding placements. He'd drill, epoxy, coat screws (i think with wd40), screw on bindings, let cure, slightly heat screws with dremel, unscrew, drill next mount position, etc. Then he'd have his quasi epoxy-based inserts. I'm pretty sure this technique was common place at rottefella.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    At marmot, rod would swiss cheese his tele skis to experiment with different binding placements. He'd drill, epoxy, coat screws (i think with wd40), screw on bindings, let cure, slightly heat screws with dremel, unscrew, drill next mount position, etc. Then he'd have his quasi epoxy-based inserts. I'm pretty sure this technique was common place at rottefella.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Machinable epoxy is useful for this as well as filling spinner holes. You can drill it and then tap it after it cures.
    Best regards, Terry
    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

    SlideWright.com
    Ski, Snowboard & Bike Tools, Wax and Wares
    Repair, Waxing, Tuning, Mounting Tips & more

  18. #43
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    Using permanent epoxies to attach bindings to skis is a rookie move.
    It's not the glue that provides retention, it's the screw's threads.
    In 25 years of ski tech-ing, I've never seen a single screw pull out because it wasn't "glued in" well enough. Never.
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  19. #44
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    Dec 2007
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    I use a silicone glue. Waterproof, and it stays flexible even when really cold (which titebond definitely doesn't). The glue itself isn't as strong, but I'm not trying to glue the binding to the ski. The glue is just a sealant. Never had an issue with silicone glue, and I've never had a screw be rusty when I removed a binding.

    If I'm worried about pullouts or spinners (i.e. shitty core, mounting close to an old hole, etc.) I'll use a slow set epoxy.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  20. #45
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    The reason shops don't tap and use epoxy isn't because it provides an inferior mount, it's because it doubles the mount time. I almost never used epoxy as a tech, but I use it on my own skis now. I don't really care what the rest of you do.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    The reason shops don't tap and use epoxy isn't because it provides an inferior mount, it's because it doubles the mount time. I almost never used epoxy as a tech, but I use it on my own skis now. I don't really care what the rest of you do.
    My thoughts exactly, right down to not caring what anyone else does.

    I am impressed with the amount of passion the topic generates though.
    山、川、森林、砂漠、海、空

  22. #47
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    Yeah, epoxy is not used mounting skis
    No one else is using the Roo Glue that I posted?
    crab in my shoe mouth

  23. #48
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    Nov 2004
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    for those of you using epoxy as a structural element, if you're interested in upping the strength and resilience of your work, consider cutting up some glass cloth into little shreds and mixing those into your epoxy. It's like adding rebar to concrete. I would go as far as to say an old hole filled with glass shreds and a quality epoxy is probably almost as strong as it would be if it hadn't ever been drilled...as long as the surrounding core isn't mush.

  24. #49
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    Dec 2004
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    Simi Valley, CA
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    ^ You can buy chopped fiberglass from boat repair supply shops, in any length you want. Don't get it in your shirt though.

  25. #50
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    northern BC
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    you don't always know how a screw was put into a ski so at the 1st sign it doesn't want to come easy ...use some heat before it fucks up
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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