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  1. #101
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    What's you favorite hard charger in the 100mm range? and why?

    Just an FYI:

    Aspen Skico’s swap this weekend had three pairs of 174 MX98’s for 70% off that didn’t sell .
    All the stuff that didn’t sell, will end up at the outlet in Basalt.

    Just in case some dentist’s ripping milf needs a good stick.
    Last edited by Shredhead; 11-07-2017 at 06:36 AM.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by iggyskier View Post
    We're a manufacturing company, not a marketing company, so the way we spend our resources reflects that.
    THIS! Respect! Bought my first ON3Ps this fall Wren 108 189cm (loyal Moment skier, branching out a bit), and confident my expectations will be exceeded.

  3. #103
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    What's you favorite hard charger in the 100mm range? and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by One (+) Sentence View Post

    Edit: do me a solid and post up a picture of the midsole of your Praxis' with a caliper measuring the ski thickness. Thanks.
    Here ya go, not at all the numbers you keep throwing around. These are Gen2 ProTest in a stock layup for resort dampness/charging.


    Curious if you're going to name and back up the claims of these "garage" builders who are building skis 1" thick? Oh yeah, that's right at 1/2".

  4. #104
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    Well duh 2FUNKY, you've got Gen 2 Pro Super Pro Test Skis!

    Hey, thanks for setting up that shot...

  5. #105
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    Let's get this back on track. Another vote for the OG Cochise here (not based on much), but would really like to ski a 184 Wrenegade 98 to see how it would fit this spot in the quiver. Wren might not be quite as damp and forgiving in firm crud, but I'd imagine it does almost everything else better. Anyone have a direct comparison?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by One (+) Sentence View Post
    Well duh 2FUNKY, you've got Gen 2 Pro Super Pro Test Skis!

    Hey, thanks for setting up that shot...
    I'm here to help. I'm just a mortal so didn't go the "pro super" model.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by iggyskier View Post
    We'll know how we feel about it soon.



    We literally have skis in our line that basically exist for retail and we stock 5 pairs of for the entire season of direct sales. Different worlds.



    I'll have to take a look next time I see a Whiteroom made ski or a Praxis.

    While I can see how you could fall for that line of thinking, that isn't an accurate assessment of what small brands experience in this industry.
    Like any business, we make decisions based upon ROI vs what consumers think we should do. This is of course just my personal experience selling skis for the past 8 years, but print doesn't sell skis - it builds/maintains brands. We (thankfully) don't need a print campaign to do that.

    Let's say I wanted to run a 1 page/issue ad campaign in Freeskier and Powder (Ski - wrong demo - and Outside - too broad). 5-6 issues each, so looking at 12 full pages ads. You would get a bit of price break at that volume, but a safe ballpark for a single page ad in a print ski magazine is $5,000. Shits and giggles - call is $50k. I can take 10k of that 50k budget, dump that into team/social/email, sell way more skis than I would thru the print campaign (and with it, get real time sales feedback vs having to review it on an annual basis), and then reinvest the remaining 40k into new equipment at our 8400 sf, 15 employee Portland factory. That is obviously just a small example, but it isn't that far from reality as far as the breakdown of resources go. We're a manufacturing company, not a marketing company, so the way we spend our resources reflects that.
    You guys are the best. Keep doing what you’re doing. You literally make the best quality skis in the industry, not to mention some of the best performing skis too. I have skied many different ski models from different brands over the past few years (50 plus) and always come home to my On3ps. They are always my favorites. Every model you make is versatile, and has an unmatched playful/charger ratio when compared to their direct competitors across different brands.

    I ski 191 Wrens, and also have metal 191 Katanas and 191 Monster 108s. The wrens are pretty much as damp as the Katanas, and 85% as damp as the Monsters (which weigh a lot more though, 350g/ski, so less attributable to the metal I think). The bamboo fiberglass and carbon layup you guys do allows for almost all the dampening of metal, without the submarine problems in soft powder. Without the “boring” or “dead” feel a lot of metal skis have.

    I am sure the 193 Supergoats I just got will have all the dampening of a 196 Bodacious.. Maybe even more.


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  8. #108
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    I agree the OP does not want a charger.

    I've never skied ONP3's & my quiver is likely not going to support a pair this year, yet damn the SG look sweet. They were also all over Hood when I was there. I can tell you they are 100% correct on the market. When I was importing from EU, 170 was the pretty standard request. Even my used 186+ skis can't get sold on this board for peanuts.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2FUNKY View Post
    I'm here to help. I'm just a mortal so didn't go the "pro super" model.
    Name:  IMG_2924.JPG
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    If you look back a few of my posts you'll see that I admitted I was exaggerating with the 1" thick claim. Nonetheless, here is a current Volkl and it is nearly half the thickness of your Praxis.

    Like I said, if buying American from a small independent manufacturer is important to you or something that makes you feel like you are skiing on a more unique special ski, then I say go for it (I mean, how badass is a name like Super Pro 2 Test?! I want some!) But to think that they are bringing something to market that the big players are unable to is simply hogwash.

    I'll bow out now and let you guys get back to your circle-jerk.

    Have a good, safe winter. Let it snow!

  10. #110
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    What's you favorite hard charger in the 100mm range? and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by One (+) Sentence View Post
    Name:  IMG_2924.JPG
Views: 584
Size:  81.9 KB
    If you look back a few of my posts you'll see that I admitted I was exaggerating with the 1" thick claim. Nonetheless, here is a current Volkl and it is nearly half the thickness of your Praxis.

    Like I said, if buying American from a small independent manufacturer is important to you or something that makes you feel like you are skiing on a more unique special ski, then I say go for it (I mean, how badass is a name like Super Pro 2 Test?! I want some!) But to think that they are bringing something to market that the big players are unable to is simply hogwash.

    I'll bow out now and let you guys get back to your circle-jerk.

    Have a good, safe winter. Let it snow!
    Bringing something to market that the big players are unable to make- who is making that argument here?

    Bringing something to market that most ‘big players’ are not producing for the market- I don’t know how you’d argue with that. These niche companies have their niche.

    I don’t own any praxis or on3ps. But good luck finding my 196 renegades at Salomon. But if they haven’t piqued your interest.... what are you on about?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by One (+) Sentence View Post
    Aren't all your suggestions 10+ years old? Could be kinda hard to find in good condition, and believe it or not, ski construction has evolved in that time.

    Some current models I would suggest the OP seeks out for demo:

    Salomon QST 99
    Armada Invictus 99
    Welcome to TGR, dentist. Neither of those skis are chargers.

    There are multiple pairs of head 102/103's on ebay right now.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    I don't think I have ever gone in to any shop and had the shop sales guy recommend a ski that wasn't 10-15 cm shorter than the size I am interested in.
    I literally can't go to a demo with multiple brands and get demo of a ski in a length I'm even remotely interested in.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
    I agree the OP does not want a charger.

    I've never skied ONP3's & my quiver is likely not going to support a pair this year, yet damn the SG look sweet. They were also all over Hood when I was there. I can tell you they are 100% correct on the market. When I was importing from EU, 170 was the pretty standard request. Even my used 186+ skis can't get sold on this board for peanuts.
    How are stockli stormrider 95s, kastle fx95 HPs, head monster ti's, and blizzard bonafides not consider chargers? They are all on my short list, just need to demo and find a deal.

    My only real restriction was turning radius under about 28m, and I wanted some camber.

  14. #114
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    What's you favorite hard charger in the 100mm range? and why?

    The HEAD Monsters are on a different level than those other skis. The newer ones this year are supposedly “10%” friendlier though..

    You can try my 184 monster 98s in Big Sky this season.


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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    The HEAD Monsters are on a different level than those other skis. The newer ones this year are supposedly “10%” friendlier though..

    You can try my 184 monster 98s in Big Sky this season.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Dont you have some 108s too? I want to ride those.

  16. #116
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    What's you favorite hard charger in the 100mm range? and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by NW_SKIER View Post
    Dont you have some 108s too? I want to ride those.
    Yes I have. The 108s are 191s. I would say they are the probably the burliest skis made in the past few years.. also very rare

    They make 191 Katanas seem “playful”.

    However they turn radius doesnt feel as large, so you can carve a tight turn if you have to. I suck at carving, yet I still love them. I need to learn some racing techniques this season, now that I’m falling in love with traditional-style skis lately.

    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    Yes I have. The 108s are 191s. I would say they are the probably the burliest skis made in the past few years.. also very rare

    They make 191 Katanas seem “playful”.

    However they turn radius doesnt feel as large, so you can carve a tight turn if you have to. I suck at carving, yet I still love them. I need to learn some racing techniques this season, now that I’m falling in love with traditional-style skis lately.

    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Oh shit. Those things are probably going to ride me. It could be entertaining. For some reason I thought you had the shorter ones. I guess I was thinking of your 98's

  18. #118
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    You're too fit for them.

  19. #119
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    Just measure the thickness of all the skis in my garage.

    187 Praxis GPO, glass, veneer, flex 4: 12mm- 9 lbs/pair
    185 Blizzard Zero G 108: 13mm- 7.75 lbs/pair
    182 Praxis GPO UL, flex 3: 12mm- 8 lbs/pair
    177 Fischer Hannibal 94: 12mm- 5.4 lbs/pair
    177 Nordica Hell 'N Back: 12mm- 8.5 lbs/pair

    Why does this matter? Should I be buying my skis based on how thick they are and how durable the manufacturer could have made them?

    The notion that small manufacturers bring nothing to the table couldn't be more wrong.

    Volant brought us the Spatula
    PM Gear and DPS made the first carbon touring skis that could haul ass.
    Praxis and Moment, among others offered a selection rockered shapes before many euro brands had even one.

    Small brands like ON3P, Moment and Praxis continue to have better, more versatile shapes and more durable products when it comes to larger skis. They also offer more skis over 190 for folks who are big and good at skiing.

    Some of the Euro brands have surpassed the indies when it comes to lightweight carbon layups. Volkl and Blizzard among other are making very light skis that are remarkably capable. But so does G3, which is not a "garage brand" but certainly lacks the resources of Volkl or the Amer Sports brands. When these larger, older ski companies throw their resources at a problem, sometimes they develop something great, but just as often they just as create something useless with a flashy name. Look at all the "revolutionary" technology that has come and gone. Where's my VAS? Where are my Beta Tubes? My piezoelectric dampeners?

  20. #120
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    ^hehe

  21. #121
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    Joe, I'm curious why you rule out the Rustler 10? Sounds like you demo'd and liked it. Wouldn't you get the 180 which is 102 underfoot?

    I'm mostly curious because I took a gamble and bought a pair of 188's on a whim.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber Joe View Post
    How are stockli stormrider 95s, kastle fx95 HPs, head monster ti's, and blizzard bonafides not consider chargers? They are all on my short list, just need to demo and find a deal.

    My only real restriction was turning radius under about 28m, and I wanted some camber.
    You put the word "hard" in the title, so mags assumed you were looking for something on the more stable and more demanding end of the charger spectrum. You should have said "stable but forgiving all mountain ski." You don't like demanding skis that reward strong input (like the MX98). If you take any exception to the forgiveness of frickin' Bonafide's, stay a mile away from the 184 monster 98's. Way too much ski for you. You already picked the enforcer 100 in your first post, so just get that (probably in 177cm). It's not the "hard charger" mentioned in the title of your post, but with the exception of not having a built in speedometer to tell you when you hit 35mph, it's probably exactly what you want.

  23. #123
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    An armada invictus 99ti is good suggestion for the OP.

    Showing up to first chair in a bogner onepiece and a pair of ON3Ps with piezoelectric dampeners would be tits. All this nonsense and I started to think that I may prefer a 1 inch ski and may be why I like the way my ON3Ps i've had ski

    Just measured
    189 ON3P Billy Goats - 15 mm
    188 Armada 99 ARVti - 14 mm
    187 Blizzard Brahma - 14 mm

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber Joe View Post
    How are stockli stormrider 95s, kastle fx95 HPs, head monster ti's, and blizzard bonafides not consider chargers? They are all on my short list, just need to demo and find a deal.

    My only real restriction was turning radius under about 28m, and I wanted some camber.
    They are mellow skis. The Head may be a little different. No judgement, they are just not chargers. QLabs, Praxis, Bodacious... Those are chargers.

    FWIW my all rounder for this year is a Renoun 184 & my charger is the Down Showdown 202.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
    They are mellow skis. The Head may be a little different. No judgement, they are just not chargers. QLabs, Praxis, Bodacious... Those are chargers.

    FWIW my all rounder for this year is a Renoun 184 & my charger is the Down Showdown 202.
    I just got rid of my Qlabs because I don't like how the mount point, sidecut, and rocker profile go together, I think if I had mounted them back about 4cm I would have like them a lot more. If I ski them again it will be a chopped tail 190 though, the 183 was too short.

    I think the bodacious is runner up behind the kastle and stockli tbh, especially the 2018 bodacious, they extended the camber and just smoothed the tip out. I might get them over the enforcer, I need to get back on the 187 bodacious and 185 enforcer more back to back.

    Quote Originally Posted by greasyslope View Post
    Joe, I'm curious why you rule out the Rustler 10? Sounds like you demo'd and liked it. Wouldn't you get the 180 which is 102 underfoot?

    I'm mostly curious because I took a gamble and bought a pair of 188's on a whim.
    I think a rustler in the 188 would be great, but I already have 187 sego big horns, and 186 ON3P skinny billy, which are both way too close to the rustler. I want something more crud and ice oriented because my quiver is never big enough.

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