Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 122
  1. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,243
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    What's wrong with the DSP sport?
    nothing

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    'bangin' your girlfriend
    Posts
    801
    The DSP Sport is an excellent beacon. I'm just using the recommended equipment list that was supplied by the CAA, but oddly, has now been taken down. Perhaps it's being updated.

    I'm more than fine with her changing beacons as I'm using a Tracker 2, and I like the DSP Sport better - so I'm going to buy her a new beacon and take the Pieps for myself.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    33,546
    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    nothing
    My point.

    I have a Pro... the slightly longer range and frequency test is nice but not nearly enough to condemn the Sport to "non-professional use".
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    'bangin' your girlfriend
    Posts
    801
    Oh, so yes, the equipment list for the CAA AO1 has changed, and no longer has a very specific list of beacons and other equipment. The previous one was right down to brands and models. Interesting.

    http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.avalanc..._List_2017.pdf

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    'bangin' your girlfriend
    Posts
    801
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    My point.

    I have a Pro... the slightly longer range and frequency test is nice but not nearly enough to condemn the Sport to "non-professional use".
    I'm super impressed with the Pieps. BD really good a good job with them. I can't believe how fast the kid is with her DSP. She needs to be able to find two beacons buried 70cm down in a 40Mx40M plot in <5min, and damn, she cracks that no problem with the DSP. I am well practiced with my Tracker 2, and I'm still a little faster with the DSP even though it's not my beacon. It's got great range for a well-priced beacon - you start in on the flux line sooner than with my older Tracker 2.

    So this winter I wanted to upgrade form my Tracker 2, and so I'll just get her a stylin' new beacon and I'll take the DSP. Then she can spend this season getting super proficient with the new unit. She can't do her CAA this year, as you need to be 19, so she's got this winter to spend a lot of time in/on the snow and working with her gear.

    My next challenge is finding an airbag pack that properly fits her tiny frame - but that's another topic completely, ugh.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    8,318
    If knowing who's who before digging is a problem, what do you guys do in a scenario where you have last seen points that indicate where your daughter was relative to another skier?

    Having tested our Pulses' ability to signal a pulse I'm far more concerned about people assuming the signal will be there on any living victim. Not only does it not work well in a pants pocket, I have enough trouble getting it to function consistently in its harness on my chest that I make sure my wife knows it probably won't indicate anything, so just dig. If you are lucky enough to get that other piece of information then it's up to you to use it intelligently. Good on you knowing your limits, I guess, but how often is this Sophie's choice scenario actually happening?

    For me it's not a 1.5m vs. 2.5m that I'd be concerned about, it would be more like 1.2 vs. 1.4 where depths are both probed. Knowing makes for a blurry line if another 20 cm gets to a known live victim but the volume of snow to move rises exponentially and the shallower victim may well be alive, too. On most slopes I'd ignore the pulse info with a difference of more than maybe 30 cm. I can see a worry about whether knowing causes hesitation or disagreement among the rescuers, but it's not a big concern. My mindset will not allow me to give up on anyone I would be skiing with and I tend to ski with like minded folks.

    Importantly, you don't go beacon to shovel. None of these things is good enough to skip the probing, so where to dig first is a decision you make with probes stuck in the snow. If you're really concerned about bad decision making based on knowledge you'd rather not have, are you carrying a short enough probe so you won't locate anyone too deep to dig out?

    I honestly think the added motivation of digging towards a beating heart should factor in more often than specific multiple burial scenarios, which would make the question more about whether an unreliable pulse-sensing system (and unrealistic expectations) is worse than none at all. Obviously an even more personal choice.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    5,359
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    ... the slightly longer range and frequency test is nice
    Plus twice the battery life in send mode . . .

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Posts
    15,780
    I'm just going to say that if you practice enough realistic multiple burial scenarios, you might find the idea of looking specifically for a given beacon to be either kind of unrealistic or overwhelming.

    YMMV

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    8,299
    Quote Originally Posted by johngenx View Post
    My next challenge is finding an airbag pack that properly fits her tiny frame - but that's another topic completely, ugh.
    Mammut makes short torso versions of some of their airbag packs. Ortovox also makes women's specific airbags.

    To counter the Pieps love just a little bit... yes, the DSP is an excellent beacon IF you carry it in the supplied harness. However if you prefer to carry the beacon in a reinforced pants pocket (I'm not going to debate that decision, there are valid arguments for and against it, but it is becoming increasingly popular with some professionals), the DSP has a possible issue. The design of the switch makes it possible for the beacon to switch itself from Send to Search mode without any user input. The auto-revert function in theory should mean that it'll switch back to send if you get avalanched... but it's far from ideal, and worth bringing up since even Pieps says in their manual that carrying in a pants pocket is an approved method. Some of the other beacons, like the 3+ or Barryvox offerings, have switches that are impossible for this to happen with.

    One other quibble - the switch to go from Send to Search is the same switch as the On/Off switch. Also, the labels for the mode are hidden under the switch. That means if you're in Send, and you look at the front of the beacon, it's impossible to visually tell which direction to move the switch to go into Search. This is solved with practice, but still... if you haven't practiced enough for it to be automatic and forget which way is which in the chaos of an avy accident, you have a 50% chance of turning your beacon off instead of going to Search. I really like how the 3+ uses a totally different switch for On/Off, so there is zero chance of this happening.

    Still, the range and overall functionality of the Pieps makes it a very appealing beacon.

    (I carried a DSP Pro for 10 years and recently switched to a 3+. I like many things better about the 3+ but really miss the longer range of the DSP. I'll also continue to own a DSP for the foreseeable future as the frequency drift function is the best way I've found to convince people to upgrade their old Tracker 1s.)
    Last edited by adrenalated; 11-03-2017 at 10:15 AM.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,243
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    However if you prefer to carry the beacon in a reinforced pants pocket (I'm not going to debate that decision, there are valid arguments for and against it, but it is becoming increasingly popular with some professionals), the DSP has a serious flaw. The design of the switch makes it possible for the beacon to switch itself from Send to Search mode without any user input.
    Huh? DSP Sport and Pro requires considerable pressure on the switch lockout simultaneous with considerable force on a perpendicular plane to slide the switch into search mode. I've never experienced nor heard about nor read about a DSP switching on its own "without user input." I cannot imagine how that would ever happen. It's a very reliable design. Claiming a "serious design flaw" is getting close to unwarranted fearmongering.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    8,318
    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    Huh? DSP Sport and Pro requires considerable pressure on the switch lockout simultaneous with considerable force on a perpendicular plane to slide the switch into search mode. I've never experienced nor heard about nor read about a DSP switching on its own "without user input." I cannot imagine how that would ever happen. It's a very reliable design. Claiming a "serious design flaw" is getting close to unwarranted fearmongering.
    Perpendicular forces are also required to switch the Pulse on, but upthread this was noted to have happened in luggage. Improbable not impossible.

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    8,299
    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    Huh? DSP Sport and Pro requires considerable pressure on the switch lockout. I've never experienced nor heard about nor read about a DSP switching on its own "without user input." I cannot imagine how that would ever happen. It's a very reliable design, hardly a "serious flaw." You're getting close to unwarranted fearmongering.
    It has happened to me.

    It also potentially happened to the victim here:
    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...de?pid=4959261

    It's probably unusual, but it's not impossible.

    "Unwarranted fear mongering" and "serious flaw" are both our respective opinions. I'm editing my original post as my opinion of the severity of the flaw has no bearing on whether or not it's a possibility - more relevant is that a user that wants to carry in their pocket should probably consider the possibility and judge for themselves whether it's an acceptable risk.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    21,938
    Quote Originally Posted by johngenx View Post
    My next challenge is finding an airbag pack that properly fits her tiny frame - but that's another topic completely, ugh.
    There are only a few airbag packs out there specifically for women (as in more design elements than simply shortening the torso), but they are all under 30L. Dakine makes a pack that is 26L Poacher RAS that is very nice and worth a look.
    https://www.dakine.com/en-us/bags/ba...-26l-backpack/

    Ortovox also makes on in the 20s range than is truly designed for female anatomy.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,243
    Okay, good that you revised your post. FTR, I said "close to unwarranted fearmongering." (Beacon fearmongering is a thing, as I've recently been reminded per a discussion about using NiMH cells fully charged before each trip vs. the very common practice of using alkies installed 4 months before a trip.)

    What are the circumstances under which it happened to you? I want to know. More info is better.

    I recall seeing that thread. Re what happened there, the more apt qualifier is "speculative" (looking back at what happened) rather than "potential" (looking forward at what might happen). And IMV, based on the limited available evidence, it was as likely or more likely user error. Either way, it's a sad story.

    Every beacon I've seen could be accidentally switched under some set of unusual conditions. Re Pulse, I agree with jono: improbable but not impossible. With all things engineering, reality requires one to speak in terms of probability, not absolutism (e.g., "impossible").

    Yeah, DSP is designed to carry in a harness. If you do wear a DSP in a pants pocket or jacket pocket, carry it with the face of the beacon inward, towards your body, which is similar to carrying it in a harness.

    I just had a light bulb go on. I think I can make a simple gizmo that will make it virtually impossible to switch a DSP (without harness) from send to search without deliberate user action.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    8,299
    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    What are the circumstances under which it happened to you? I want to know. More info is better.
    Normal touring. Turned beacon on a TH, did beacon check with group. Switched to send, stowed in right front hip pocket (Trew Roam bibs) with screen facing towards my body. Short 15-ish minute skin, 1000ft descent, another 30ish minute skin. While transitioning for the second descent, a partner that was kneeling near me heard the beacon pinging in my pocket (it was windy enough that I couldn't hear it). When I took the beacon out of my pocket, the switch had moved slightly and was resting in between Send and Search - far enough that the beacon was in Search mode, but not all the way locked in that mode. I believe at some point during the second ascent the slider lock depressed just enough to allow the switch to move slightly. 100% positive that it was fully in Send prior to beginning the tour and through the first descent (the first couple transitions were in sheltered locations and I would have been able to hear it).

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,881
    i put my beacon in the pants pocket on the clip, it gets turned on when i put the pants on, something one of them yur a peeing beacon guys said was that statisticaly a beacon had never been ripped out of someones pants in an aviy

    I have heard of people forgetting to put a beacon harness back on when stripping layers, localy some guys skied the "5000" a big face that goes big and forget a beacon on a rock at the top ... they went back to get it the next day

    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    Okay, good that you revised your post. FTR, I said "close to unwarranted fearmongering." (Beacon fearmongering is a thing, as I've recently been reminded per a discussion about using NiMH cells fully charged before each trip vs. the very common practice of using alkies installed 4 months before a trip.)
    .
    You can buy a doz alkalines for 10$, they will last in most skiers beacon for a season but I think its more about the rechargables putting out a different amount of current ( or sft ) so beacon batteries are not the place to go green or save money or WTF
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    10,828
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    i put my beacon in the pants pocket on the clip, it gets turned on when i put the pants on, something one of them yur a peeing beacon guys said was that statisticaly a beacon had never been ripped out of someones pants in an aviy
    Basically this is exactly what I do for almost exactly the same reason.
    My wife has the same beacon [] and she likes wearing the harness. She finds it more comfortable and easier that way. Cool.

    But fuck you guys I’m rescuing her first.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    33,546
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    You can buy a doz alkalines for 10$, they will last in most skiers beacon for a season but I think its more about the rechargables putting out a different amount of current ( or sft ) so beacon batteries are not the place to go green or save money or WTF
    It's the discharge rates being different. voltage drops more progressively with alkalines. So your trail-head check that says 80% is nothing in few hours time with rechargeables.

    Steve - post details of your gizmo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,243
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    You can buy a doz alkalines for 10$, they will last in most skiers beacon for a season but I think its more about the rechargables putting out a different amount of current ( or sft ) so beacon batteries are not the place to go green or save money or WTF
    Well, we've talked about this in at least one other thread. Manufacturers spec alky cells because beacon battery life indicator circuitry is designed for alky voltage curve drop, which starts at c. 1.5V then quickly dives to 1.4V then slowly declines to 1.3V, then 1.2V, then 1.1V, then 1.0V then slowly dies. NiMH voltage curve is very flat, starting at c. 1.4V, then quickly diving to 1.2V+ and stays at 1.2V+ for 95% of cell life until a steep voltage dropoff. (Beacon send/receive circuitry is designed to be fully functional at a range from 1.0V to 1.5.)

    So, alky spec is all about battery life indicator circuitry. If you diligently charge your NiMH cells before each trip (as I faithfully do, and have done for years, for all outdoor devices), NiMH cells work as well as alky cells and offer the opportunity of starting each trip with full cell capacity. (With alky cells that would require new batteries each trip.) Personally, I would rather know that I head out each trip with fully charged NiMH cells with 2000 mAh capacity rather than installing alky cells in November and thus very possibly having 500 mAh capacity in a trip in February.

    For those who are not diligent NiMH chargers, alky cells + replacing @50% life is the way to go, for sure. That likely describes most ski tourists.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    8,318
    Today 10:29 AM
    I use NiMh batteries for radios, camera and GPS and ironically, I'd have no problem using them in a beacon as long as they were new every other use or so. IME they tend to die/stop taking a full charge rather suddenly and then lose voltage prematurely despite a recent charge. Maybe I'm not charging them perfectly or something but until they start showing themselves reliable at 3 yo in other applications I'm not sticking them in a beacon. Lithiums FTW in the cold if that's an option.

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,243
    Adding: It's great that we have these discussions. Greater knowledge and better understanding re devices are good things. Nonetheless it's important that we remind ourselves that beacons are a tool to be used after a slide. Safe travel in avy-prone terrain starts with making decisions before we set out, reading terrain, assessing snow pack and exercising good judgment -- and that includes sometimes turning back. We cannot allow talk about technical aspects of avy beacons get in the way of the bigger picture re safe travel in the mountains.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    33,546
    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    Adding: It's great that we have these discussions. Greater knowledge and better understanding re devices are good things. Nonetheless it's important that we remind ourselves that beacons are a tool to be used after a slide. Safe travel in avy-prone terrain starts with making decisions before we set out, ready terrain, assessing snow pack and exercising good judgment -- and that includes sometimes turning back. We cannot allow talk about technical aspects of avy beacons get in the way of the bigger picture re safe travel in the mountains.
    Absolutely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,243
    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    IME they tend to die/stop taking a full charge rather suddenly and then lose voltage prematurely despite a recent charge.
    If you use high quality LSD cells, e.g., Eneloops, and a smart charger with a readout, you'll know precisely how much charge each cell takes for each charge cycle. Again, IMO NiMH cells in avy beacons are a good idea only if you are diligent about charging and have at least some degree of NiMH cell nerdiness.

    Also, alky cells are sometimes bad, even when brand new. I've bought brand spanking new alky cells that had <30% battery life and a few that were complete duds (yes, one of those duds was a Duracell). OTOH, I've seen only one semi-dud Eneloop out of >100 Eneloop cells, and I knew that per my battery nerd diligent charging regimen. In other words, IME NiMH cells are more of a known quantity than alky cells.

    Maybe I shouldn't post anything about this, here or elsewhere. NiMH cell nerds with sufficient acumen figure it out on their own. Non-NiMH nerds probably should use alky cells and change them out @50% or sooner.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    8,318
    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    Maybe I shouldn't post anything about this, here or elsewhere. NiMH cell nerds with sufficient acumen figure it out on their own.
    I would not take it that far, but certainly don't leave your description to "NiMh" when that encompasses a lot of less reliable consumer batteries than what you're really talking about. I'm intrigued by the Eneloops, but will likely make the switch in the radios and GPS for a few years first.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    10,828
    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    Adding: It's great that we have these discussions. Greater knowledge and better understanding re devices are good things. Nonetheless it's important that we remind ourselves that beacons are a tool to be used after a slide. Safe travel in avy-prone terrain starts with making decisions before we set out, ready terrain, assessing snow pack and exercising good judgment -- and that includes sometimes turning back. We cannot allow talk about technical aspects of avy beacons get in the way of the bigger picture re safe travel in the mountains.
    OK, I'm old. My first trips in the "backcountry" nobody wore beacons, (or had any safety equipment really). We were mostly just scared as hell to ski anything that looked at all like it might even remotely slide. (This includes heli skiing in AK, and trips to La Grave, BTW.) Fast forward to 5-6 years ago, and I get my 2 main ski partners to do the Level 1 course with me. During the class, I tell my wife that it's kinda basic stuff, and really just stuff we've always been doing. (It was nice to know the names of things to help me read reports, though.)

    I am so happy I'm on my second beacon and I never used the first. I hope this tradition continues.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •