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10-28-2017, 10:44 AM #26Registered User
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I fought against the popularity of the Arcteryx Beta LT for a lot of years and ended up picking one up on sale. It turns out lots of other people were on to something. I wear the thing all the time. Breathable side panels are good in my opinion, as they allow the jacket function in a really wide range of temps without being too warm. Wind obviously cuts through, but if it's windy and nasty enough for that to be an issue I typically have a shell on anyhow. There have been a surprising number of colder touring days where I've left the jacket on all day and not had to change my layers at all.
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10-28-2017, 11:16 AM #27Registered Useless
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- Oct 2016
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- tahoe de chingao
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- 848
Not as heavy a sweater, but I generally agree with this sentiment. Only difference for me is a wear a very light base layer under a marmot windstopper softshell. This works for me on 90% of dawn patrols, all cold days, and cold/windy days in the alpine.
I ski with a lot of guys with fancy patagucci insulation layers, etc, and they stop more often to shed or put on layers than I do. If we are ALREADY STOPPED and planning to post up for a minute (lunch, complex decision making, 10 minute breaks), I pull out a puffy. Don't carry a hard shell unless it's really nuking (even then I rarely wear it) or multi-day trips.
FWIW, pants make a big difference. I'll skin in full side zip goretex bibs on deep days, and with the vents wide open I still rarely need a softshell. Softshell and those bibs was very toasty down to -5 degrees last year (pre-dawn, coldest day of the year last year in tahoe). Normally rock very light softshell pants.
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10-28-2017, 11:18 AM #28
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10-28-2017, 11:28 AM #29Registered User
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- Sep 2010
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- SW CO
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Yes, it is. As I said in the rest of my post, I (like many others) don't need/use a midlayer while moving, pretty much ever. The combo of NTS (next to skin; DIY-Steve calls it N2S) semi-VB (semi-permeable vapor barrier) for moving and ultra-light puffy for transitions/breaks works really well for general ski touring. Highly recommend you try it and stop playing around with layers. Won't keep you "comfortably warm" for an extended period of not moving in temps below about 10-15F, but it's incredibly light and works very well for the typical tour.
I use the Xenon for climbing or when I expect my insulation might get wet. It doesn't see too much use since I bought the Montbell."Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
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10-28-2017, 11:37 AM #30
Yeah I will plan on doing something like that. I was just trying to justify keeping this Xenon I got haha.
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10-28-2017, 11:45 AM #31Registered User
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- Sep 2010
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- SW CO
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Well, I think it's always smart to have a synthetic piece for when you might end up very wet. Like touring in the rain in the PNWet, belaying in a light drizzle (that could turn to rain), etc. But if I could only have one, it would be the Montbell, no contest.
The only time I could see the potential for a breathable synthetic piece is cold-weather technical climbing, which I'm just barely starting to break into. I run cooler and cold-sweat when technical climbing, which feels different than the typical sweat during a primarily aerobic activity like skinning or booting. I sweat a lot regardless.Last edited by auvgeek; 10-28-2017 at 12:39 PM.
"Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
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10-28-2017, 11:56 AM #32Registered User
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- Mar 2008
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- northern BC
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- 31,028
-25 at asulkan hut and I was skinning in a Patagucci softshell with NO base layer which was OK as long as I didnt stop ... perhaps an extreme example
typicaly I start with everything on and plan to stop up the trail after 10 min to do moving beacon checks/ take off that top insulating layer
I have since taken up wearing a base layer again but you don't really need to and if you don't wear one ... it won't get soaked in sweatLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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10-28-2017, 12:06 PM #33
I run hot but sweat little. I've taken to wearing running/sun-shirt base layers designed to dry quickly. I seldom need the extra insulation, and if I do sweat a bit during a tricky bit of climbing, I'm dry within a couple minutes.
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10-28-2017, 12:35 PM #34
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10-28-2017, 12:53 PM #35
I just picked up the Marmot ROM for a good price. Breathable with Gore Wind Stopper. I plan on using it over my R1 once the wind picks up. I'll report back on how breathable it really is. I tend to be a heavy sweater.
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10-28-2017, 01:05 PM #36Registered User
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- Dec 2009
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- 365
Oops. Atom LT, not Beta.
Only complaint is the hood makes layering awkward and the zipper doesn't lock in place if it's not done all the way up/has another hood under it. Other than that it's like a comfy hoody that punches WAY above its weight, weighs less and sheds wind and precip better. My next one probably won't have a hood so that it functions as a mid-layer a little better.
It's important to know that jackets in this class are not a replacement for a decent down jacket. I always have one of those in my pack in case the day turns nasty or the shit hits the fan.
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10-28-2017, 03:16 PM #37
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10-28-2017, 05:41 PM #38Registered User
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- Jan 2014
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- Gaperville, CO
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- 5,849
I don't find the Bross to run big. Long yes, but not big. Unless they changed the design recently.
I have a Bross 2.0 non-hardface. It's basically a variation on the gucci R1. I wear it a fuck ton -- around the house, bike rides to work, going uphill, mid layer most resort days.
Certainly my most used piece of clothing.
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10-28-2017, 06:52 PM #39
I bought a large instead of usual XL and rep (not MiCol) said it ran big, so take that for what it's worth. It's the 3.0 one. Have a similar lighter piece from 2-3years ago and was told they run big prior but still got the XL. I kinda swim in it, but it is damn comfy. Just not as warm as this new one.
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10-29-2017, 10:10 AM #40Registered User
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- Dec 2005
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- 522
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10-29-2017, 10:27 AM #41
Patagonia Forerunner. Good performance and lasts forever. I haven't had stink issues. Not the softest but they dry very, very fast. They don't always sell these. Not sure why, as they never seem to be on sale, which suggests they have no problem selling them.
More recently I've used some Exofficio sun shirts, including one that has head/face coverage. Also good, but can't speak to durability or long term odor control.
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10-29-2017, 11:02 AM #42Registered User
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- Feb 2014
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Thanks for the simplified VB info! I have read this https://www.warmlite.com/vapor-barrier/ before, but your run-down makes more sense to me. Also, they just moved to CO.
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10-29-2017, 11:05 AM #43
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10-29-2017, 11:18 AM #44Registered User
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- Sep 2010
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- SW CO
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- 5,597
Steve has posted about this extensively -- searching will yield an awesome amount of info. His semi-VB next to skin idea is different than the full VB offered from Stephenson's warmlight and RBH Designs (and others) -- IMO, it works better for moving in warmer (10F -35F) temps and is way more comfortable than a plastic bag next to your skin. In very cold temps, a thin baselayer with a full VB would work just fine.
"Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
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10-29-2017, 10:09 PM #45
Anybody remember the old Stephenson's catalogs?
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10-30-2017, 07:56 AM #46Registered User
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- Sep 2006
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- Rossland BC
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- 1,880
What I’ve found works for me, ski touring in -15 to +5 degrees (centigrade).
Base Layer: Icebreaker one-sheep suit. Luxurious warmth in all conditions. The hood works well for regulating my temperature.
Skinning Layer: Salomon S-Lab Motion Fit Windstopper Jacket, a soft shell jacket made for XC skiing. Handles the wind, doesn’t wet out in heavy snow, isnt too warm for hard trail breaking, and the ventilation holes in the back work better than any wonder fabric for breathability. (Pants aren’t so critical, but I’m currently using Dynafit Chugach Windstopper Pants, and they’re fine).
Resting/Descent Layer: Patagonia Nano Storm Jacket. Combines a puffy and a shell, and the active insulation adds to its usable range. I start with it on, take it off if/when I get too warm, and put it back on just before I reach the top.Blogging at www.kootenayskier.wordpress.com
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10-30-2017, 06:50 PM #47Registered User
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- Feb 2014
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PIF: Freeride Systems Bross Hoody
I have acquired quite a few of the FRS Bross....old boss gave me a coupe hand-me-downs, MiCol and I did a trade a couple years back. Anyway, I have too many, and they are free, but you pay to ship.
One is the 2.0, size large, black R1 style fabric.
The other is the same but medium, and the sleeves have been cut off....sleeveless hoody.
Both have lots of life left, but became pet hair magnets around my house. I just threw them both in the washer and can get some pics tomorrow.
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10-30-2017, 07:45 PM #48
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10-30-2017, 08:00 PM #49Registered User
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- Feb 2014
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Both have been spoken for.
Last edited by permnation; 10-31-2017 at 06:07 PM. Reason: update
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10-30-2017, 08:37 PM #50
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