DHF DD vs Exo?

[creaky fossil]

On another note , it's funny maxxis only puts butyl on the sidewalls. Most of the tire pinching is across the top in the tread casing now

I think that insert is primarily for sidewall rock slices and has 2dary benefit of casing getting firmer. So now it translates to the tread pinching on itself width-wise? Is that what you mean?

[sethschmautz]

DHFs aren’t the only tire out there. Check out the better options like the Rockr advanced Magix or SE5s or Butcher Grids (not the new grid with the stair knob, the old grid).

Those rock'rs aren't light are they?

SE5s are more in line with the DHFs in Exo.

Can you post a link to the old style butchers?

I am open to other ideas also, so thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some reading.

Seth

[grinch]

I think that insert is primarily for sidewall rock slices and has 2dary benefit of casing getting firmer. So now it translates to the tread pinching on itself width-wise? Is that what you mean?

Ya pretty much. It helps for all that but the tread casing is still where it pinches despite the tread casing collapsing on the butyl enforced sidewall onto the rim edge. A decent combo could be a 2.5dd front for the stiffer edging tire with a little more durability and a 2.4 dhr2 exo with a huck Norris . Little more flex for compliance through rough ground, to keep it from pinging around and deflecting , and at the same time having pinch resistance and rim protection with the huck Norris. I guess it depends what trails are like though.

[grinch]

DHFs aren’t the only tire out there. Check out the better options like the Rockr advanced Magix or SE5s or Butcher Grids (not the new grid with the stair knob, the old grid).

^^this. Could add onza in there two. Not sure if Gwinns new tire is out yet but it will have an enduro level model that will run around 975g. Looks like a good compromise and a nice tread I'd like to try. I've been riding a onza citrius on the rear and it's been good but only a few rides and haven't tried it up front for the definitive test(1100g in the end/fr casing). Still think, at 1050g, the wild rockr2 is my choice

[toast2266]

Those rock'rs aren't light are they?

SE5s are more in line with the DHFs in Exo.

Can you post a link to the old style butchers?

I am open to other ideas also, so thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some reading.

Seth

SE5's are basically just a G5 with a lighter casing. They have reinforced sidewalls, and also reinforcement under the tread. So it's a bit more than an Exo, but not quite as much as a DD. Sweet tire, but it's gonna roll slower than a DHF (not sure if that matters). I'm like 60% sure that Kenda makes Bontrager's tires.

An Onza Ibex might be worth looking at if you're wanting to try something other than Maxxis. They do a bunch of different casings.

[grinch]

SE5's are basically just a G5 with a lighter casing. They have reinforced sidewalls, and also reinforcement under the tread. So it's a bit more than an Exo, but not quite as much as a DD. Sweet tire, but it's gonna roll slower than a DHF (not sure if that matters). I'm like 60% sure that Kenda makes Bontrager's tires.

An Onza Ibex might be worth looking at if you're wanting to try something other than Maxxis. They do a bunch of different casings.

I really liked the G5 and wasn't aware they reinforced the tread casing on the se5's. I think when I was looking at the SE5's , after I tried the g5's, they didn't have many width options. Not positive on that though.

[radam]

SE5's are basically just a G5 with a lighter casing. They have reinforced sidewalls, and also reinforcement under the tread. So it's a bit more than an Exo, but not quite as much as a DD. Sweet tire, but it's gonna roll slower than a DHF (not sure if that matters). I'm like 60% sure that Kenda makes Bontrager's tires.

An Onza Ibex might be worth looking at if you're wanting to try something other than Maxxis. They do a bunch of different casings.

I don't have time on a G5 or SE5, but lots of time on Bontrager XR4s and some time on SE4s (which would be laid up similar to the SE5). I've never managed to pinch flat an XR4, front or rear, even at very low pressures (~20 psi, maybe less) in rocky terrain. I have had a few sidewall cuts. The SE4 is definitely more stout but still very supple, imo. I've ridden other reinforced casing tires (Vittoria's TNT and Conti's Protection) and the SE4 felt more compliant. With all that said, for a front tire on a trail bike, the Bontrager SE casing would be more than enough toughness. But also the XR4 is a good all-rounder, fwiw. Vittoria's Goma is also a little bit like a DHF but I will say that I found the Goma to have a pretty narrow window for optimal tire pressure.

[summit]

DD is basically a DH with a folding bead, so double sidewalls=stiffer=lower pressure.

I wrecked 3 exo DHF sidewalls this summer... riding DH... so now I have the WTB version of DD

[kidwoo]

After falling in love with and marrying G5s on my dh bike for the last several years, I was disappointed greatly at our horrendous love child, the SE5. I don't know if I got some old ones but the compound on those is so damn hard, they're almost useless. And that's coming from someone who still uses 60a tires on the rear.

What I meant to say is that they're the best tire ever and I have one brand new, unused for sale if anyone wants it.

[creaky fossil]

Ya pretty much. It helps for all that but the tread casing is still where it pinches despite the tread casing collapsing on the butyl enforced sidewall onto the rim edge. A decent combo could be a 2.5dd front for the stiffer edging tire with a little more durability and a 2.4 dhr2 exo with a huck Norris . Little more flex for compliance through rough ground, to keep it from pinging around and deflecting , and at the same time having pinch resistance and rim protection with the huck Norris. I guess it depends what trails are like though.

You can feel the tread buckling on itself in certain corners? What does that feel like? Imprecise edge, wobbly edge to the tire bite?

How does that insert + latexgoo + DD pedal? About the same as a DH tire, wire bead, DH tube? Worse?

When I say I'm slow & lazy, I'm talking about refusing to pedal that sort of combo whenever there's more than 3 hrs pedaling involved.

************

Also as DHF alternative, don't forget DHR 2. I just went back to DHF 2.5 front after 3 years of strictly DHR 2 front. If you like to brake hard on the front wheel, DHR's your tire. Stays composed in braking, brakes much better than DHF. The bite on turn-in isn't quite the same, though. Is that because of the L shaped knobs that kidwoo trimmed when he rode DHRs?

[MrMan]

What I meant to say is that they're the best tire ever and I have one brand new, unused for sale if anyone wants it.

Haha love this place. Thanks for yet another sig worthy comment^^^^^^. Have had great success with DHF EXO for rugged XC in the past. Brilliant tire all round.

[sethschmautz]

SE5's are basically just a G5 with a lighter casing. They have reinforced sidewalls, and also reinforcement under the tread. So it's a bit more than an Exo, but not quite as much as a DD. Sweet tire, but it's gonna roll slower than a DHF (not sure if that matters). I'm like 60% sure that Kenda makes Bontrager's tires.

An Onza Ibex might be worth looking at if you're wanting to try something other than Maxxis. They do a bunch of different casings.

Toast,

You didn't steer me wrong last time. I have really liked the DHF as a front tire. Would you recommend trying the Ibex or something similar? Nobody local has a 3c version of the DHF. Would prefer not to roll significantly slower if possible. Faster while maintaining cornering traction would be even better.

There ARE dual compound DHFs available locally. That would get me up and running quickly, but my traction would (probably) suffer.

Seth

[sethschmautz]

What I meant to say is that they're the best tire ever and I have one brand new, unused for sale if anyone wants it.

How cheap?

[toast2266]

Toast,

You didn't steer me wrong last time. I have really liked the DHF as a front tire. Would you recommend trying the Ibex or something similar? Nobody local has a 3c version of the DHF. Would prefer not to roll significantly slower if possible. Faster while maintaining cornering traction would be even better.

There ARE dual compound DHFs available locally. That would get me up and running quickly, but my traction would (probably) suffer.

Seth

Personally, I think the dual compounds are fine for around here. They roll a little faster, and don't grip quite as well. But it's not that rooty and rocky around here, and lots of the trails are fairly hard packed, so a somewhat harder rubber compound isn't the end of the world. I'd take a 3c given the option, but I wouldn't lose any sleep if the only thing I had available was a dual.

Again, personal preference, but I really like the highroller 2, especially in the 29 x 2.3 size, and especially as a front tire. It rolls ok, it brakes really well, and once you learn to trust it, it corners harder than an equivalently sized dhf. It wears out quicker though. Casing and rubber considerations are the same; I'd usually go exo and 3c maxxterra or maxxgrip for the front. Probably dd, maxxterra for the rear.

There are plenty of other good tires out there, but I haven't found any that are clearly superior to the good maxxis options. There are a few that are equally good, and I'd happily ride them, but they tend to be hard to come by. So I usually just stick to maxxis because everyone has them, and it's a (good) known quantity.

Edit to add: agreed with creaky on all fronts regarding the dhr 2. That's a great tire, and definitely works well in the front too. Slower than a dhf though.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[sethschmautz]

Personally, I think the dual compounds are fine for around here.

Thanks. The local dual compound option is a 2.5 vs the 2.3, so maybe a wash between the traction gained with a wider tire and the traction lost with the dual compound.

My rim states 2.1-2.4, but other threads suggest that the 2.5 DHF measures closer to 2.4 anyway unless that has changed.

Seth

[jackstraw]

What EXACTLY are you running right now? I highly doubt you have a super tacky or maxx grip front tire.

maxx terra exo 29er...which is fine. I do not need super tac or grip.

What Plus+ Minions did you buy, EXACTLY?

I bought the same in 2.8. maxx terra exo

Everybody knows the Aggressor is not a wet weather tire. It's only available in 2.3" and DC compound, and has a tight pattern.

Correct. I do not have that in 2.8, I currently have a Rekon.

And jong snow, chill with your all cap shit. Your Rog is showing. You're new around here and soon you realize that mags know everything and we're all pro's, so just stay in your lane.

[creaky fossil]

I run 60A (mostly) or 3C (now & then) all the time, have only run the gummy glue compounds occasionally and while they do grab like velcro, they roll like they're in peanut butter. But I think if we had PNW wetness and our roots & rocks were snotty a lot of the time, I'd sing a different tune.

toast, I felt the DHR2 rolled better than DHF. Mainly by comparing them as back tires, I don't notice that as much up front. Up front, I notice 60A going to gooey glue for sure, but otherwise rolling resistance I don't notice much.

[sethschmautz]

Alright. I think I'll go with the local DHF option unless they also have an HRII in stock also. It will get me back riding quicker and I also get to support the LBS.

[jackstraw]

Yeah, I've run both 3C and non. The 2.8's I bought are 3C. We'll see how they last, but the 2.8 are so damn heavy to begin with I needed to save grams somewhere. 1040 vs 980.

Riding the same lines with a DHR 3C 29er vs the Rekon (non-3c) was a significant difference in similar conditions. If it was always dry as a bone, I don't think it would matter so much. We ride punchy granite ups and downs in between dirt sections that are typically moist. The Rekon did not shed. I'm more concerned with grip than rolling resistance and 3C has been fine. Too many no fall zones for me. Not Rampage no fall zones, just off granite boulders at low speed type no fall zones. Won't die most likely, but it will not feel good...at all.

[skaredshtles]

Yeah, I've run both 3C and non. The 2.8's I bought are 3C. We'll see how they last, but the 2.8 are so damn heavy to begin with I needed to save grams somewhere. 1040 vs 980.

2.8 tires at 1000g? What are they making these things out of? Onionskin?

[jackstraw]

2.8 tires at 1000g? What are they making these things out of? Onionskin?

Ha! Claimed weight. Your mileage may vary.

It is interesting. The 29 x 2.3 3c maxx terra 60tpi is 920 and i dont see a 120tpi on the site. The DD is 1135.

[grinch]

You can feel the tread buckling on itself in certain corners? What does that feel like? Imprecise edge, wobbly edge to the tire bite?

How does that insert + latexgoo + DD pedal? About the same as a DH tire, wire bead, DH tube? Worse?

When I say I'm slow & lazy, I'm talking about refusing to pedal that sort of combo whenever there's more than 3 hrs pedaling involved.

************

Also as DHF alternative, don't forget DHR 2. I just went back to DHF 2.5 front after 3 years of strictly DHR 2 front. If you like to brake hard on the front wheel, DHR's your tire. Stays composed in braking, brakes much better than DHF. The bite on turn-in isn't quite the same, though. Is that because of the L shaped knobs that kidwoo trimmed when he rode DHRs?

It doesn't totally fold but enough that I don't want anything else to think about or it happens when I push a little too much in a corner by mistake. Instead of saving my bacon it rolls and gives an "oh fuck" moment. Also one area in particular is a steeper rock face trail system, so it's nice to drop a couple psi and still have some sidewall integrity. I've noticed when it does roll a bit it also breaks the tubeless seal much easier than the dd. again the wild rockr2 is better at everything. Seals better too. It's ust but my rims aren't . New LB carbon rims have only lost a couple psi in the 2-3 weeks I've had them with the michelin's. The dd pedals better than a full dh , mainly because less weight, although I haven't compared to a full dh tire in quite a while. Just settled on 1000g+ tires as a happy medium and piece of mind. I kept the dhr2 exo 2.3or.4? That came on my scout for a while(just added huck Norris) but in the end I just don't trust the exo when I'm not close to home. Tread itself was good , on the rear anyway, but I wanted a wider option as the little bike pedals up to dh trails too.Threw the wr2's(1050g) on the little bike(with rear huck Norris for more piece of mind) and put the 2.5 minion dhf dd/ onza 2.4 citrius end/fr(1170g/1100g) on the 180/160bike.
As for pedalling more than 3 hrs, that's mainly the little bike and that little scout ,w carbon wheels/cranks ,gets up and goes. I probably saved weight on the carbon wheels and butted spokes almost as much as I gained with the tires. Maybe it's because I haven't had a bike with that little of travel in a while and I'm not really xc rallying. More of an adventure bike that is very capable on the ups and rips on the downs(125 rear/150front, 65.5ha/75sa). I guess the heavier tires is a compromise to some but I don't see an alternative

[Jonny Snow]

maxx terra exo 29er...which is fine. I do not need super tac or grip.


I bought the same in 2.8. maxx terra exo



Correct. I do not have that in 2.8, I currently have a Rekon.

I see, well that's too bad. You're missing out. If you think the Maxx Terra is an improvement over DC, the super tacky is twice the improvement over maxx terra. A real revelation on a trail bike. I imagine it's like having a plus bike except with far more grip, less weight, durable tires and more precision....ok, it's way better than a plus bike.

Super tacky or maxx grip in the front in a minion with reasonable pressure, it rolls surprisingly well. Looks like if you want a Maxx Grip in 29", you need to go to a downhill tire, so you're SOL.

And jong snow, chill with your all cap shit. Your Rog is showing. You're new around here and soon you realize that mags know everything and we're all pro's, so just stay in your lane.

Get a life, fruitcake.

[kidwoo]

How cheap?

It's a 27.5 which I think does you no good?

[sethschmautz]

It's a 27.5 which I think does you no good?

Hmmm. Yes. Darn.