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  1. #201
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    Jun 2014
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    682
    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    Bigger question though.
    Those wet + fresh snow/small-crystal days...

    IMO, absolutely NOTHING really "fixes" the drag you get on those days. I'm sure things can help some, and if you're racing, it may well make the difference between winning and coming last.

    But for the average schmo on the hill, I don't think *anything* I've tried has made all that much difference. And when I say difference, I mean - where you don't really find you're getting a lot [or any] sticktion, and everyone else not using your secret method is complaining about it a lot.

    And this is the place where I think most people want the biggest difference - that wet fresh snow.

    The last couple of years here in Oregon, we've really not had "spring" skiing, where the snow corns up and it doesn't matter how wet it is, since the crystal size is so large. We've kept getting new on top of what's here often enough that you're always skiing snow that's never really gone through the freeze/thaw cycle enough times. Not that I'm complaining, it's nice to ski on fresh snow - but I do love me some corn.

    For me, the TLDR version is:
    For sticktion, you can perhaps make a very modest difference by greater structure, and fresh appropriate wax - but it's not going to reduce the drag by 98% or anything. It might be 20% better. Or, if I exaggerate a lot, perhaps 50%. But it's still going to be really noticeable and not that fun - you're not going to he hooting your way down the hill while everyone else scratches their heads wondering what magic trick you came up with to avoid the suck they're in.

    Am I missing something, or does that mirror everyone else's experience?
    My experience is that pure fluor works in any conditions. Not low fluor or even high fluor wax, but eg Swix Cera F 100% fluor carbon powder. But who in their right mind uses that on their skis if they are not racing?

    I even hate waxing/scraping and is the perfect candidate for using Phantom anyway.

  2. #202
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    492
    Quote Originally Posted by Self Jupiter View Post
    Iím sure this has been covered somewhere on here but I couldnít pull it up in search- is there a way to scrape that is less effort? Is there a power tool for scraping off a hot wax? Scraping my skis hurts my (injured) back worse than skiing.
    The crayon-on wax on method above will help. Metal scraper [heavy-gage is better], judiciously applied, is easier than plastic. I use metal about 75% of the time. [Without a "hook" and with being careful, it's not going to take off any substantial ptex material.]

    Does the height of the ski make a difference. You might try higher/lower and see.

    ---
    Finally, if money is no object, a power roto tool with brass and/or horsehair is reportedly very cool.

  3. #203
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Boston
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    3,098
    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    The crayon-on wax on method above will help. Metal scraper [heavy-gage is better], judiciously applied, is easier than plastic. I use metal about 75% of the time. [Without a "hook" and with being careful, it's not going to take off any substantial ptex material.]

    Does the height of the ski make a difference. You might try higher/lower and see.

    ---
    Finally, if money is no object, a power roto tool with brass and/or horsehair is reportedly very cool.
    Thank you. I have noticed you can use metal, be careful, and not visually affect base structure. But I was still afraid. I usually use metal on tip/tails.

    I actually scrape with the skis resting vertically against my workbench. I might not get the same leverage, but I avoid twisting my back.

  4. #204
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    Sep 2015
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    492
    Quote Originally Posted by Self Jupiter View Post
    Thank you. I have noticed you can use metal, be careful, and not visually affect base structure. But I was still afraid. I usually use metal on tip/tails.

    I actually scrape with the skis resting vertically against my workbench. I might not get the same leverage, but I avoid twisting my back.
    I should have said this in my initial post too:
    A very thick and sharp plastic scraper is also pretty good.

    Thick acrylic scrapers are cheap down at the Ace hardware [at least here] perhaps $2-3. Ask them to cut something 2"x8" or so. [The one I visited had a piece of scrap about 8" wide, but you can always take a wider piece and just initially cut 2" off, and then in 6-10" widths. Give one or two away.]

    And as the edge wanes, use a sheet of sandpaper on a flat surface or a file to re-sharpen the edge. [Just put a good "flat" on the edge that goes against the ski base.] A sharp edge works a lot better then even a slightly dull one.

  5. #205
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    2,577
    Okay... Here is a wild idea. One of my business colleagues sent me this from a show yesterday. DPS has been there multiple years because I get a picture each year. :-)

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    Today, I read the article below. The "low-maintenance ski systems" caught my eye. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that DPS engineered Phantom Glide as a way to reduce maintenance and upkeep of their skis (or any skis for that matter) to deferentiate themselves and make them more appealing to the military. As a bonus, they can sell this to the general population also.

    Seth

    https://www.military.com/defensetech...ski-boots.html

  6. #206
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    902
    da fuq. I would figure they'd be too small to play in the defense space. But with that in mind I'd bet they are going after nordic countries or very specialized units.
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  7. #207
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    Oct 2014
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    1,296
    Are we anywhere close to consensus on phantom? Anyone being a ginny pig and buying this summer?
    Last edited by margotron; 05-25-2018 at 12:10 AM.

  8. #208
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    Sep 2007
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    Schruns
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    666
    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalNomad View Post
    da fuq. I would figure they'd be too small to play in the defense space. But with that in mind I'd bet they are going after nordic countries or very specialized units.
    For the niche outdoor products, spec ops and wannabes the smaller companies can stay alive on Military contracts. Look at Mystery Ranch and Wild Things, they are more military facing that not these days.

  9. #209
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    my buddy the DPS dealer was going to do a set of skis for a local guide to see how it worked in that app, with changing conditions/skin glue yada yada
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  10. #210
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    Oct 2014
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    1,296
    keep us postegd
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    my buddy the DPS dealer was going to do a set of skis for a local guide to see how it worked in that app, with changing conditions/skin glue yada yada

  11. #211
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    Nov 2013
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by JRainey View Post
    For the niche outdoor products, spec ops and wannabes the smaller companies can stay alive on Military contracts. Look at Mystery Ranch and Wild Things, they are more military facing that not these days.
    Yeah I just figured more people are out there buying backpacks for defense than skis. #tacicool
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  12. #212
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    Jun 2004
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    Issaquah
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    I am about to try this on some new skis and saw on there website Phantom 2.0. Perhaps it is just marketing or have they tweaked the formula ? Any insights ? I can obviously wait a few months.
    License to kill gophers by the government of the United Nations

  13. #213
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    Jul 2004
    Location
    Squaw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ski to Be View Post
    I am about to try this on some new skis and saw on there website Phantom 2.0. Perhaps it is just marketing or have they tweaked the formula ? Any insights ? I can obviously wait a few months.
    If you listen to the recent Blister podcast at http://blistergearreview.com/feature...-stephan-drake , then I recall they said they improved the product so that the application process will be easier and more successful, especially for people who live where often weeks go by without any direct sunlight/warmth or whatever weather conditions the instructions asked for, etc. I think they said the improved product also got a tiny bit faster glide, but that was not their main reason to improve it (i.e. the 1st version was fast enough glide).

    .
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  14. #214
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    May 2017
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    Zurich, Switzerland
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    There is / was a Instagram Story and they seem to present some kind of device for shops to cure it. I guess in the future there will be (at least for most costumers) a treatment from a shop instead of a DIY approach. I think the mentioned it on the podcast, too.

  15. #215
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    Oct 2015
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    NIseko Japan, or Gold Coast Australia
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    136
    Quote Originally Posted by LeoK View Post
    There is / was a Instagram Story and they seem to present some kind of device for shops to cure it. I guess in the future there will be (at least for most costumers) a treatment from a shop instead of a DIY approach. I think the mentioned it on the podcast, too.
    take a look at ski.com.au starting here https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/dp...2#post-3493477
    seems like stores should already have a UV box to cure ski super fast
    We are working on a UV box for the process. It is in testing now but not quite there yet.
    Apparently there are quite a few variables to dial in the correct measure for a UV box to complete the process.
    In fact after hearing some of the issues or hurdles to get it right I shudder at the thought that people willingly laid under on of those things to get the tan right.
    Ha ha, Guess what turned up in my inbox this morning.
    The new DPS UV lightbox for Phantom.
    It was just released at the trade shows. I thought they were still testing it. Cagey buggers didn't let on.
    There is a cure box we've built which the shops will have. They can cure the skis in approx 20 minutes now.


  16. #216
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
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    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
    Who did you think started this thread?
    I did..but I have to disappoint you, I do not work for DPS..

  17. #217
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    Aug 2016
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    No longer Alexandria, VA
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    Not sold on the idea. I'm always down for an excuse to crack open a couple cold ones, and it turns out that waxing skis is a perfect excuse.

  18. #218
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by thefortrees View Post
    Not sold on the idea. I'm always down for an excuse to crack open a couple cold ones, and it turns out that waxing skis is a perfect excuse.
    What if someone told you, you don't need an excuse to do something?

    And shit really does work . I used it on some powder boards and I was flying past people with 1/2 the waist width on slow super warm late spring snow.
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  19. #219
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    Mar 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefortrees View Post
    Not sold on the idea. I'm always down for an excuse to crack open a couple cold ones, and it turns out that waxing skis is a perfect excuse.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalNomad View Post
    What if someone told you, you don't need an excuse to do something?

    And shit really does work . I used it on some powder boards and I was flying past people with 1/2 the waist width on slow super warm late spring snow.
    I'm gonna agree w/ NCN. Relatively small sample, but I witnessed a friend w/ phantom on making turns on sun baked flats back to the lift while the other 4 of us were leaning back and pointing it! And that muthafuker was pulling away from us. Granted, the dude runs a ski shoppe, and his shit always tuned, but it made me a believerClick image for larger version. 

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  20. #220
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    . Granted, the dude runs a ski shoppe, and his shit always tuned, but it made me a believer
    some skis are just faster and then you got weight so its not really testing apples against apples but at least it doesnt totally suck

    I don't think the stuff has been out long enough to test the "never wax again" part ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  21. #221
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    Mar 2009
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    All that being considered, I know what I saw, and it looked pretty good to me

  22. #222
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    Oct 2014
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    1,296
    I want it to work. Sounds amazing to me.


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  23. #223
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    89
    Sounds interesting as well. I have a new set of powder skis in the garage that I might give this a try. Never having to wax them again sounds very nice. What is the best way to prep a new set of skis to remove the factory wax?

  24. #224
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    NIseko Japan, or Gold Coast Australia
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    136
    Quote Originally Posted by pman View Post
    Sounds interesting as well. I have a new set of powder skis in the garage that I might give this a try. Never having to wax them again sounds very nice. What is the best way to prep a new set of skis to remove the factory wax?
    when trying to research how much of a scam this was (ive decided its probably mostly legit) i saw a youtube review where they suggested you dont need to do anything special for new skis, i guess factory wax is so thin that it doesn't count. said stone grinding for old skis.
    went looking for it again today, and it turns out the dps site has their own recommendations. including olive oil ... wtf?

    What is the best way to prepare bases for Phantom?
    Base cleaning prior to Phantom application is a 'best, 'better' and 'good' scenario. The 'best' path is to get your skis or snowboard stone ground at a shop to first remove all wax and dirt from the base before application; this allows maximum Phantom penetration. 'Better; is using a ski industry wax cleaner (we have found that these work, but don't remove 100% of wax in its entirety), or instead using an alternative natural cleaner like olive oil, or hot water/dish soap before applying Phantom. 'Good' is applying Phantom over a waxed ski or board; we have tested this scenario, and we were pleased to find that Phantom still penetrates through wax into the depth of the base; and permanent on-snow performance is still good.
    $10 for a quick stone grind, or $10 worth of olive oil. lol

  25. #225
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,510
    Standing by for ghetto Phantom glide then YesWax.

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