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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    842
    Itís too bad AlpineZone isnít still around to put up a 1,000-page thread on this

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,630
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

    Thanks for the link. 100 +/- bucks for a lifetime of flat bases and structuring? Sold. Good group buy for a crew of buddies. Always frustrating buying new boards and having to get em ground before leaving the shop due to railed bases. Seems like every season I'm checking a buddy's new boards' bases with a true bar and advising a flatting grind after they hate their new skis 'cause their hooky in crust and hard snow due to edge high bases; usually coinciding with lack of detune in tips and tails after pulling them out of the wrapper.
    Master of mediocrity.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    318
    Re: wax in the watershed: What happens to the stuff that is ground off the base? Does that just go in the garbage?
    Quote Originally Posted by jlboyell View Post
    Climate change deniers should be in the same boat as the flat earthers, ridiculed for stupidity.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    CH
    Posts
    1,728
    These whippersnappers over on NS did some nice work getting some insight. Marshall where you at?
    http://www.newschoolers.com/forum/th...ax-revolution-
    #1 goal this year......stay alive +
    DOWN SKIS

  5. #105
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sonoma & Truckee
    Posts
    11,152
    ^^^ "We can calculate that the amount of fluoro left on the mountain after ten million
    skier/snowboarder visits will be, at most, 38 pounds.* To put this number into perspective, 38
    pounds of fluoro, in the form of discarded microwave popcorn bags, are thrown into trash bins
    around America every 15 minutes.** Clearly, the environmental impact of the fluoro in snow
    waxes is miniscule and, in comparison with the very real hazards endangering our planet from
    other sources, it is insignificant."

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NCW
    Posts
    2,211
    Just as I suspected.

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Motown
    Posts
    560
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    ^^^ "We can calculate that the amount of fluoro left on the mountain after ten million
    skier/snowboarder visits will be, at most, 38 pounds.* To put this number into perspective, 38
    pounds of fluoro, in the form of discarded microwave popcorn bags, are thrown into trash bins
    around America every 15 minutes.** Clearly, the environmental impact of the fluoro in snow
    waxes is miniscule and, in comparison with the very real hazards endangering our planet from
    other sources, it is insignificant."
    I never understood that "feel good" bullshit, but the real danger from fluoro is exposure during application, but you basically need to be waxing thousands of skis on a closet before your mind starts to slip. I emailed and asked for an MSDS... no reply, probably because they're rolling around in the extra $70k they picked up and don't give a fuck.

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    the big dirty
    Posts
    688
    Quote Originally Posted by geo039 View Post
    These whippersnappers over on NS did some nice work getting some insight. Marshall where you at?
    http://www.newschoolers.com/forum/th...ax-revolution-
    Got to give the footwear proofer a try!
    https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/ca...er-p2719.aspx/

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Peaking in Chads Window
    Posts
    673
    They lost me at (kickstarter) kids these days...

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    17,770
    nooskoolers is smarties
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    878
    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    snake oil sauce
    Im with ya there. Waxing skis is a relaxing activity that gets the juices flowing for the next session anyways. I see no need to spend a shitload on some new gimmick when the tried and true method that costs me less than $20 a season works. Iíll spend the rest on beer and greens.

    Has there been any mention of how skin adhesives will react with this new compound? Just curious if thatíll fuck up the finish.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near the mountains
    Posts
    825
    Quote Originally Posted by Self Jupiter View Post
    I for one was surprised they were worth so Ďlittle,í relatively speaking.
    It's because they had so much debt. I'm not sure if Logan Imlach (former skier with Level 1 and Armada Engineer) uses TGR forums, but he quite a lot to say about that on Newschoolers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    I suggest we do more airmchair QBing with no facts except as stated in the article.

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Basalt, CO
    Posts
    411
    Quote Originally Posted by homebrewd View Post
    Im with ya there. Waxing skis is a relaxing activity that gets the juices flowing for the next session anyways. I see no need to spend a shitload on some new gimmick when the tried and true method that costs me less than $20 a season works. Iíll spend the rest on beer and greens.

    Has there been any mention of how skin adhesives will react with this new compound? Just curious if thatíll fuck up the finish.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    They specifically mention a lack of skin glue contamination being a benefit. They did not mention any diminished skin adhesion.
    "Just send it you pussy."

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    546
    Where exactly are we getting this info that this stuff *requires* a base grind every ~30 ski days to maintain effectiveness? It sounds like that's an interpretation based on the promo email that went around, and conflicts with everything else. Can someone just paste the email text here?

    The podcast and that pdf make it sound more like a base grind doesn't diminish the effectiveness because the stuff is throughout the depth of the base. They say you will probably still want base grinds as normal for the same reasons you always did, i.e. refreshing structure.

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,968
    Quote Originally Posted by skibum93 View Post
    It's because they had so much debt. I'm not sure if Logan Imlach (former skier with Level 1 and Armada Engineer) uses TGR forums, but he quite a lot to say about that on Newschoolers.
    Ah got it thanks

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    752
    So.... if this is great, will DPS and other brands ship with this factory installed in bases? I would think they could get this deeper into bases at the factory, maybe even vacuum bag them when applying the way we used to do with carbon/Kevlar kayaks.... stronger and lighter when the resin is permeated.

    If itís not worth putting into skis at the shop.... why would I think this is anything other than an add on sale?

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    sfbay
    Posts
    2,161
    got an update from kickstarter:

    Popular Question About Stonegrinding
    Posted by Alex Hunt (Collaborator)
    We've received a number of questions regarding the necessity of stone grinding a Phantomed base. Here's some clarification:
    Your skis or snowboard will retain a glossy black appearance after a Phantom application. After thirty days or so of use, any base material, whether it’s been Phantomed or not, will begin to look “dry” as snow abrasion starts to take its toll; a stone grind will freshen the visual appearance to new. However, to clarify any prior confusion: stone grinding is NOT required on a Phantomed base at any prescribed interval. Stone grinding is generally simply a good idea, irrespective of Phantom, to remove hair and dirt, and place a fresh structure on your ski or snowboard. Our test groups in New Zealand and Chile ran entire seasons, skiing practically everyday, without new stone grinds. In both climates, after months on snow, there was no noticeable drop in Phantom performance – only the visual appearance of the base.

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    615
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    nooskoolers is smarties
    Um, sure, I guess. Patent search was slick, but like half of them say they've never waxed their skis/wax is useless (one even calls it a scam). WTF, have they never skied in well-below-zero weather or warm weather, when a ski that's dry or has the wrong wax becomes basically a snowshoe?

    AFA fluoro goes: anyone here use that? I thought it was pretty much only racers. I don't: it's way more $$$, the fumes are toxic (like, you really should wear a respirator when it's on the iron), and I seriously doubt I'd ever notice the ~1% increase in speed.

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    615
    Quote Originally Posted by jondrums View Post
    got an update from kickstarter:

    Popular Question About Stonegrinding
    Posted by Alex Hunt (Collaborator)
    We've received a number of questions regarding the necessity of stone grinding a Phantomed base. Here's some clarification:
    Your skis or snowboard will retain a glossy black appearance after a Phantom application. After thirty days or so of use, any base material, whether it’s been Phantomed or not, will begin to look “dry” as snow abrasion starts to take its toll; a stone grind will freshen the visual appearance to new. However, to clarify any prior confusion: stone grinding is NOT required on a Phantomed base at any prescribed interval. Stone grinding is generally simply a good idea, irrespective of Phantom, to remove hair and dirt, and place a fresh structure on your ski or snowboard. Our test groups in New Zealand and Chile ran entire seasons, skiing practically everyday, without new stone grinds. In both climates, after months on snow, there was no noticeable drop in Phantom performance – only the visual appearance of the base.
    HAIR?!? Seriously?

    If only I could stone-grind my skins

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Alpental
    Posts
    5,474
    Quote Originally Posted by skizix View Post
    HAIR?!? Seriously?
    Yeah, base hairs, snow is abrasive.

    I only use fluoro on race skis, other than cheap low fluoro bulk wax.

    But all of the skis I take care of get hit with a steel brush followed by several passes with a purple scotchbrite to refresh the ski structure and remove base hairs. That and the occasional pass with a burnished metal scraper, are enough to not need a base grind until more serious work to the base is needed.

    If the Tx really works... yeah it'd b nice if the skis start coming pre-treated. Saturating a base with wax is a pretty inefficient process.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  21. #121
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,410
    I thought saturation with a warm temp wax was SOP on new skis in the nordic race world.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

  22. #122
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    5,328
    Fuck waxing bases bitch, I don't know how.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  23. #123
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    18,463
    It might be good for those fucking dentists who drops their skis off for a wax job every week but i've never done that

    also many of us have multiple ski setups so its would turn out expensive

    I've base ground one pair of badly railed/concave skis that really needed a base grind but other wise it just doesnt happen and its probably not needed

    get a little scratch % wise its a very small amount of the base so I might fiil/smoove it out and call er good

    in otherwords the focus group for this product probably ain't us
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  24. #124
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern BC
    Posts
    1,661
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    It might be good for those fucking dentists who drops their skis off for a wax job every week but i've never done that

    also many of us have multiple ski setups so its would turn out expensive

    I've base ground one pair of badly railed/concave skis that really needed a base grind but other wise it just doesnt happen and its probably not needed

    get a little scratch % wise its a very small amount of the base so I might fiil/smoove it out and call er good

    in otherwords the focus group for this product probably ain't us
    I've been waiting for you to chime in on this one.

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    18,463
    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    I thought saturation with a warm temp wax was SOP on new skis in the nordic race world.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Not many people have a pizza oven/hotbox so mostly its LOTS of waxing that does the trick you put it on a brand new xc ski, take it all off and in a 2 hr skiing sesh the bases will be white, but after you wax/ski them a doz times you can ski longer without the base looking white

    I wax a new set of skis/don't scrape and just leave them to cool completely , I might do that 6 or 10 times before scraping it all off
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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