DPS Phantom Glide

[waxman]

Thanks!

I love my DPS. There are plenty of 5-10 year old DPS sticks that ski just about as well as on day one. Eventually you can beat their edges/sidewalls to death, but the carbon keeps the core reacting like new.

But here I gotta say, sounds like DPS found a solution to their market saturation problem with very long lived skis: "get the customer to base grind multiple times per season and our skis will finally die in time to be replaced with our next major product cycle."

Which is fine if you liked them to start. They don't last any longer than any other ski of the same price.

[geo039]

no fucking way? That would amount to a ski likely lasting a season, maybe 1.5 depending on base thickness. Hell I barely wax my skis (once or twice a season) much less base grind every season.

And why do I want to make my bases harder just to grind them off? #waxtothemax

[grskier]

Sounds like you can apply wax on top. Not sure if that’s more or less effective. DPS did mention that it might be faster in racing to apply flouro on top of phantom. Not sure if thats because of high abrasion or if its because the wax is just as effective.

fluoro wax is faster by en large... works differently, for a much different duration.....

[Cocximus]

Base grind? Never, I want to keep my bases thick to avoid core shots. Ptex deeper scratches and hertel universal wax on top. It fills up the smaller scratches pretty well.

[doebedoe]

Armada sold for $4M, and I have to assume they were a lot bigger than DPS.

These brands aren’t worth shit compared to most businesses.

After debt, taxes and typically absorption deal structure, those Armada guys were probably lucky to walk away with low to mid 6 figures.

I have to think Armada and DPS are pretty different animals. Armada was just another ski brand. Nothing particularly innovative -- all their skis were manufactured by big ski shops. DPS has a number of completely unique constructions, owns their own construction facility, also has standard layups done by a big factory and is one of the most known premium ski brands.

Number of skis sold alone doesn't equal business value.

[Self Jupiter]

I have to think Armada and DPS are pretty different animals. Armada was just another ski brand. Nothing particularly innovative -- all their skis were manufactured by big ski shops. DPS has a number of completely unique constructions, owns their own construction facility, also has standard layups done by a big factory and is one of the most known premium ski brands.

Number of skis sold alone doesn't equal business value.

While all that is true, and this isn’t your fault- you’re missing the point I was trying to make. we got a foggy look at where the market is at for these brands/indies when Armada sold. I for one was surprised they were worth so ‘little,’ relatively speaking.

[summit]

So I'm thinking....

About 30-40 on snow days usually results in enough base damage to warrant a repair, which means you need a grind.

Now you don't take your sacred sticks to the ski school rental shop to be run through a fucking extruder followed by a base thinning massacre grind.

You take you skis, particularly a nice pair of DPS, to a GOOD tech with a good machine who knows the difference between repatterning your base or cleaning it up a touch after a base weld.

So maybe this base grind refresh is not an arduous chore, extra cost, or unnecessary wear and tear. Maybe it is SOP and you get the bonus of not having to wax inbetween...

[The Dad]

So I'm thinking....

About 30-40 on snow days usually results in enough base damage to warrant a repair, which means you need a grind.

Now you don't take your sacred sticks to the ski school rental shop to be run through a fucking extruder followed by a base thinning massacre grind.

You take you skis, particularly a nice pair of DPS, to a GOOD tech with a good machine who knows the difference between repatterning your base or cleaning it up a touch after a base weld.

So maybe this base grind refresh is not an arduous chore, extra cost, or unnecessary wear and tear. Maybe it is SOP and you get the bonus of not having to wax inbetween...

Well said. I don't think many of my skis make it more than 30 days without enough of an impact to merit a light grind.

[El Chupacabra]

About 30-40 on snow days usually results in enough base damage to warrant a repair, which means you need a grind.

You can repair a base without needing to grind it afterwards. It may not look as pretty compared to having a machine grind, but you can do a base weld repair by hand, then flatten by hand.

[Skidog]

So I'm thinking....

About 30-40 on snow days usually results in enough base damage to warrant a repair, which means you need a grind.

Now you don't take your sacred sticks to the ski school rental shop to be run through a fucking extruder followed by a base thinning massacre grind.

You take you skis, particularly a nice pair of DPS, to a GOOD tech with a good machine who knows the difference between repatterning your base or cleaning it up a touch after a base weld.

So maybe this base grind refresh is not an arduous chore, extra cost, or unnecessary wear and tear. Maybe it is SOP and you get the bonus of not having to wax inbetween...

Damn you take better care of your skis than me. If I grind more than 2 times in the time I own a ski it's a lot. I ski at least 50 days a season. Alta is rocky. I seem to avoid them for most part. Superficial scratches mostly, and the very rare coreshot. Maybe I'm just not a hard enough skier.

If I ground my skis every 30 days, no matter how good the tech (and I know great ones) I'd have no bases in under 2 seasons. That's crazy talk.

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

[bodywhomper]

Damn you take better care of your skis than me. If I grind more than 2 times in the time I own a ski it's a lot. I ski at least 50 days a season. Alta is rocky. I seem to avoid them for most part. Superficial scratches mostly, and the very rare coreshot. Maybe I'm just not a hard enough skier.

If I ground my skis every 30 days, no matter how good the tech (and I know great ones) I'd have no bases in under 2 seasons. That's crazy talk.

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

so 3 base grinds = no base for you? that make no sense.

[summit]

so 3 base grinds = no base for you? that make no sense.

Seriously.... Maybe his tech really sucks.

[summit]

Damn you take better care of your skis than me.

Maybe I am harder on my gear than you?

[Cocximus]

NEED a base grind after repair? Do you chisel the extra ptex off?

[BigHerm]

My $.02 after listening to the podcast: I would compare this product to a chemical version of hotboxxing skis. The ceramic coating analogy is close but is more of a surface bonded product than a penetrative one. It makes sense if you just want to ski and not bother with waxing. You can top the product with temp specific wax and the guys claim it is better than waxing untreated skis. They mention that the product bonds to the entire thickness of the base and that is why a grind will "refresh" the performance. You might be able to scotch brite the base to get a similar effect, but they didn't mention it.

It sounds legit and there is science and a real scientist behind it. I could see a real benefit to every day skiers and snowboarders who don't want to tune their gear. I like tuning and having the right wax for the day. I still would consider this product for getting the job done in standard midwinter conditions with the expectation of applying green or yellow when needed. I'll wait and see how the rollout goes. Good luck to DPS.

[swissiphic]

You can repair a base without needing to grind it afterwards. It may not look as pretty compared to having a machine grind, but you can do a base weld repair by hand, then flatten by hand.

I get consistently clean and smooth base finishes after p-texing (either by hand or gun using harder base repair material) by removing the surplus plastic with a curved tooth panzer body file. With enough experience you can get a very good finish after this process but optimally, one follows by then waxing the ski...the waxing helps pump a bit of extra heat into the base repair and further seals/blends it into the base. I usually do a pass or two with the iron, then work around the repair to avoid promoting excessive heat penetration and melting the ptex. Post cooling and wax scrape, base usually ends up looking close to factory fresh. Definitely no need to grind the base.

[Alpinord]

I have to laugh and shake my head.

Forever, people have rationalized rarely waxing or going super cheap with crappy wax (or reuse wax) to 'save money' (ie pennies in a super expensive sport and lifestyle choice). Now you can spend a ton on not waxing and stress out about finding a reliable base grind somewhere. Easy for some, not for many. All while potentially not getting the best performance out of your expensive gear. Kind of like buying an AWD or 4x4 vehicle with under inflated all season tires to drive on snow and icy roads.

Sounds like there will eventually be a need for a Grind your own Fucking Skis thread in the future due to major screw ups and grinds through the cores on less than flat skis and thin bases. A few passes with a Ski Visions Base Flattener & Structuring Tool, light sanding or base filing with a cross cut or body file, even a coarse file, (as mentioned above) could suffice vs a base grind for some.

I have skis with over a hundred days on them. They have never seen machine grind are running great and easily tweaked for current conditions with minimal effort.

[skifishbum]

Typical DPS skier- highest ratio of money spent to actual skill of anyone on the mountain

did i mention im a 1%er

[skifishbum]

Maybe I am harder on my gear than you?

or maybe, just maybe them extra 100 to 150 inches of snow in the satch covers more stuffs
i have
lotus 120 with over 200 days on em that have never been stone ground yet
and an assload of wax cycles most of which i was paid to do
so i doubts im gonna pay for snake oil sauce

[Skidog]

so 3 base grinds = no base for you? that make no sense.

Maybe a little exaggerated but I think you see my point. How many base grinds you figure you get before one decent rock hit is to the core? 5? 6? Seems like some do it yearly some don't. I fall into the latter camp. This stuff might be great for the 10 day a year skier, but the folks who ski 50+ days well? Jury is still out.

My tech is pretty good. Andy at Peruvian. I think more than a few of you know him.

SFB is on here. I've got nearly 200 days on my shoguns 1 grind since they were unwrapped new.

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

[summit]

or maybe, just maybe them extra 100 to 150 inches of snow in the satch covers more stuffs
i have
lotus 120 with over 200 days on em that have never been stone ground yet
and an assload of wax cycles most of which i was paid to do
so i doubts im gonna pay for snake oil sauce

No doubt the more exposed rocks are the biggest reason I'm harder on gear.
If I still worked in a shop waxing on the clock, yea I wouldn't pay either. I have a bench in the garage, so maybe maybe not.

[Lindahl]

A few passes with a Ski Visions Base Flattener & Structuring Tool, light sanding or base filing with a cross cut or body file, even a coarse file, (as mentioned above) could suffice vs a base grind for some.

Wouldn’t that tool do the same thing as a base grind with respect to refreshing this product’s effectiveness?

[summit]

Wouldn’t that tool do the same thing as a base grind with respect to refreshing this product’s effectiveness?

I'd imagine so

I'm curious if the brillo pad idea would work well enough

We need more info on how this product actually affects the base and what is actually happening in the process that requires a "refresh" Is it ptex hairs or is the permanent treatment worn away or....?

[Alpinord]

Wouldn’t that tool do the same thing as a base grind with respect to refreshing this product’s effectiveness?

I would think so, with these exceptions:

1) You can do it at your convenience in minutes and not have to coordinate and run around for a grind AND worry about costs, quality and depth on MULTIPLE skis.
2) You can micro manage how much material you remove for base flattening as well as freshening structure.
3) Those who think they can tell the difference between a linear structure vs the array of machine grind options may not like this option. In powder I can't imagine someone could truly tell the difference.
4) You can cross hatch with the tool if you are very careful and take your time.
5) You can adjust the structure depending on conditions in minutes (think warm spells then back to cold spells, back to warm, etc).
6) It is also a 'go to tool' for smoothing out base repairs and restructuring.
7) Buy it once for a lifetime if you maintain and/or replace stones.

[geo039]

#savethewaxindustry