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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    NCW
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    I spend maybe $15/year on wax, about 500g of Toko universal covers the quiver.
    Apply wax at the end of the season for storage, scrape in the fall, and re-apply when things start to feel sticky.
    2.5kg, incl shipping, for the price of one shot of PHANTOM.
    And I get to hang around the garage fondling skis, listening to tunes and drinking beer.

    I'm also skeptical of the watershed effects of hydrocarbon wax. I used to know some people at the SLC Water Quality office. I don't remember them ever mentioning that ski wax was a contributer to watershed pollution. They were much more concerned with solid waste, soot and fuel from transit/automobile traffic in the canyon. I suspect the environmental angle is pure marketing.

  2. #27
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    Nov 2006
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    NCW
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    Quote Originally Posted by grskier View Post
    If you follow the links, there is a bunch of information coming out.

    This graph represents the difference between conventional waxing and phantom.

    Attachment 214976
    Exactly what information can you distill from that graph? Is the time scale in minutes/hours/days/years/runs/seasons? Where are the adjustments for frequency of base grinds? It's just an illustration to support their copy.

    DPS is nothing if not consistent in their color palette.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
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    5,610

    DPS Phantom Glide

    Looks like the colder the snow, the worse it performs in comparison to wax. I like how their cold snow graph compares it to universal wax? What about those sub-zero days when the last thing you want on your bases is a universal wax.

    Requires a periodic base grind? and slower than wax? No thanks.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
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    Really, as someone who used to wax his skis ad nauseum, then just stops, this is a great product. If you are someone that waxes all the time, and enjoys your time in the garage/wax room, well....

    That said, I used to wax all the time because after 3-5 runs, I felt the difference and knew I wasn't really skiing on wax after a few runs.... Now I have kids and don't have the same bench space.

    So, it's a pretty broad niche IMHO.. but if it's not your cup o' tea....

  5. #30
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    Jan 2006
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    Carbondale
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Looks like the colder the snow, the worse it performs in comparison to wax. I like how their cold snow graph compares it to universal wax? What about those sub-zero days when the last thing you want on your bases is a universal wax.

    Requires a periodic base grind? and slower than wax? No thanks.
    How often are you waxing? Seriously interested.

  6. #31
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    Jan 2006
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    Carbondale
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    I got an email back re: the base grind question already and Phantom should last beyond a base grind.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Arounda Way
    Posts
    95
    I wonder if this is like the ceramic coating that the vehicle detail industry has been using?

    You apply this coating instead of a carnauba wax and it lasts for many years....maybe 5-10 depending on sun, etc.





  8. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    30,214
    How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

    Stinks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    PNW
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    4,796
    Quote Originally Posted by grskier View Post
    I got an email back re: the base grind question already and Phantom should last beyond a base grind.
    Yes, they claim that it hardens the whole thickness of the base material... or at least to a depth that would tolerate a few grinds.

    It's not a surface finish, but an alteration to the base.

    If the base gets hairy and slow with time, I suppose you could still wax over it with some regularity to avoid the base grind... but then what's the point? Longer intervals between wax jobs, maybe? Would the wax bond as well as to an untreated base?
    Last edited by Norseman; 11-01-2017 at 01:31 PM.
    PE, Mechanical Engineering
    University of Bridger Bowl Alumnus
    Alpental Creeper

  10. #35
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    Jan 2006
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    Alpental
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    5,474
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Looks like the colder the snow, the worse it performs in comparison to wax. I like how their cold snow graph compares it to universal wax? What about those sub-zero days when the last thing you want on your bases is a universal wax.

    Requires a periodic base grind? and slower than wax? No thanks.
    The way I read it was that the treatment penetrated the base such that an occasional base grind to either re-flatten the ski, remove abrasion ie base hairs, or a grind after base repairs would not require an additional treatment. Doubt there are that many out there that re-grind skis for spring anymore, but that'd also be a possibility. If you don't base grind skis ever, then waxing is probably less important in terms of getting good glide.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    CH
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    1,728
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

    Stinks.
    Word!
    #1 goal this year......stay alive +
    DOWN SKIS

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
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    6,213
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

    Stinks.
    That's my question.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    the big dirty
    Posts
    688
    If the charts are true, why aren't the nordic guys who are most picky about waxing using this stuff in warm temps if it performs better than normal wax?

    Do skins stick to it? HF and LF wax don't.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
    Posts
    3,838
    Quote Originally Posted by skiitsbetter View Post
    If the charts are true, why aren't the nordic guys who are most picky about waxing using this stuff in warm temps if it performs better than normal wax?

    Do skins stick to it? HF and LF wax don't.
    Because it's easier to make a chart with theoretical performance, than it is to make a chart with real world environmental data.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Where the center is on the right
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    681
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

    Stinks.
    Typical DPS skier- highest ratio of money spent to actual skill of anyone on the mountain
    "If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough."

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Your Mom's House
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    6,454
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

    Stinks.
    I'll bet a normal product release wouldn't have brought in nearly $40k in a matter of hours.

  17. #42
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    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    I'll bet a normal product release wouldn't have brought in nearly $40k in a matter of hours.
    It's just skeezy for a company that sells as many $1k+ skis as they do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

    Stinks.
    Why would you risk your own money to fund an initial production run when you can risk someone else's instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by skiitsbetter View Post

    Do skins stick to it? HF and LF wax don't.
    I listened to the Blister podcast. I'm skeptical about it generally as a replacement for wax, but they did highlight fewer issues with skins as a selling point. They said it sticks to the surface of the ski, and you don't have to worry wax globbing up your skin glue.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mailman View Post
    Why would you risk your own money to fund an initial production run that you when you can risk someone else's instead?
    Or because the product sucks?



    you don't have to worry wax globbing up your skin glue.
    Does anybody currently worry about this?

    Unless they're doing it wrong.

    Edit to add... what kind of impenetrable packaging does this stuff come in ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Warrrrrrrshington
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    1,062
    So is this basically deep penetrating Zardox Not Wax?

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    betwixt the Silvers and Saint Johns
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Looks like the colder the snow, the worse it performs in comparison to wax. I like how their cold snow graph compares it to universal wax? What about those sub-zero days when the last thing you want on your bases is a universal wax.
    .
    Yes that's my question too- needs to be compared to cold wax for cold snow and warm wax for warm snow.

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    North Vancouver
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    6,196
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?

    Stinks.
    Marketing YO.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Motown
    Posts
    560
    Where's the MSDS? oh wait, that would expose the collusion between Zardoz, 3M, Dupont and Rustoleum.

  24. #49
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    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    Yes, they claim that it hardens the whole thickness of the base material... or at least to a depth that would tolerate a few grinds.

    It's not a surface finish, but an alteration to the base.

    If the base gets hairy and slow with time, I suppose you could still wax over it with some regularity to avoid the base grind... but then what's the point? Longer intervals between wax jobs, maybe? Would the wax bond as well as to an untreated base?
    That's sorta when the grind would be SOP

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Redwood City and Alpine Meadows, CA
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    8,302
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    How come DPS the company that pretty much invented the $1000 boutique ski business needs to raise only $35K of kickstarter money for this industry changing product?
    Since they're supposed to ship a month from today, I doubt that they "need" to raise anything for it. It's good promotion.

    Although if they'd failed to make that target (they already have), it would be great way for them to find out that the market isn't there.

    Quote Originally Posted by nest View Post
    Typical DPS skier- highest ratio of money spent to actual skill of anyone on the mountain
    Ummm... there's a lot of competition there.


    The Volkl V-Werks series should be in the mix too.
    not counting days 2016-17

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