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  1. #251
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    1,711
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    That's annoying. It means I can't apply skins until I ski a few runs and even then its not going to wear off rockered sections.
    You think there's something that may affect the glue?

    I didn't even think of it but yesterday was my first day on my Billgoats which I Phantom 1.0ed last spring and never skied again. I applied my skins at home and then a 1hr skin to the resort. Once skins were off I immediately noticed some drag but within a couple runs I totally forgot about it and I feel like the rest of the day the bases were running well (-6C, Alberta Rockies), didn't notice any drag, even in the lift line.

  2. #252
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    18,936
    Quote Originally Posted by robnow View Post
    You think there's something that may affect the glue?

    I didn't even think of it but yesterday was my first day on my Billgoats which I Phantom 1.0ed last spring and never skied again. I applied my skins at home and then a 1hr skin to the resort. Once skins were off I immediately noticed some drag but within a couple runs I totally forgot about it and I feel like the rest of the day the bases were running well (-6C, Alberta Rockies), didn't notice any drag, even in the lift line.
    well I wouldn't put skins on freshly wax skis either unless they been really well scraped and roto brushed and wiped. you don't want wax (or I assume phantom part B) to get in your skin glue

    Sent from my VS995 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  3. #253
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    none
    Posts
    7,218
    I Assume you have to repeat after a stone ground?

  4. #254
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    6,431
    Quote Originally Posted by robnow View Post
    didn't notice any drag, even in the lift line.
    U could buy a dress and change that early season scene

  5. #255
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    18,936
    Quote Originally Posted by Shredhead View Post
    I Assume you have to repeat after a stone ground?
    The claim is that this penetrates and changes the chemical formula of the entire ptex base, so stone ground would not diminish the effectivness.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  6. #256
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    18,936
    Updated steps with part B removal to avoid skin contamination.

    Peter at DPS was very clear don't apply skins until you have either skied off the excess B or followed the steps above, which I think are probably the only way to go if you have reverse camber or long rocker sections. Use of old skins was optional.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  7. #257
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
    Posts
    11,192
    My Koalas should be here by the weekend with a factory applied Phantom 2.0.

    Excited. I skied a few different pairs of skis treated and I like not having to worry about waxing these.

    Summit,
    I'll ask next time I talk to my contacts there, but I always assumed it was like an epoxy, and you wiped off the unused cure.... but that was just my assumption.
    www.dpsskis.com
    www.point6.com
    formerly an ambassador for a few others, but the ski industry is... interesting.
    Fukt: a very small amount of snow.

  8. #258
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    18,936
    Part B doesn't wipe away as easily as Part A

    Favorably impressed on my DPS A112s
    It also seems to have worked well on my Voile HyperVector V6 BCs with patterned bases
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  9. #259
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    2,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Shredhead View Post
    I Assume you have to repeat after a stone ground?
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    The claim is that this penetrates and changes the chemical formula of the entire ptex base, so stone ground would not diminish the effectivness.
    Stone grind IS how you refresh Phantom

  10. #260
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
    Posts
    11,192
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Stone grind IS how you refresh Phantom
    This.
    www.dpsskis.com
    www.point6.com
    formerly an ambassador for a few others, but the ski industry is... interesting.
    Fukt: a very small amount of snow.

  11. #261
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    5,548
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    It also seems to have worked well on my Voile HyperVector V6 BCs with patterned bases
    Interesting.

    Probably a very stupid question, but I've never had patterned bases:

    Do you treat the scales too?

    If so, how does that affect grip on the up?
    Last edited by reckless toboggan; 12-03-2018 at 07:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  12. #262
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
    Posts
    12,528
    so we got a machine back in the end of dec been averaging 9-10 a week
    i dosed my lotus 120's and theyre fast but theyre red and i still wax
    mostly cause im a tech and they pay me to keep my skis fast
    our box is old and could use regasketing
    a few things
    possibly could have been marketed as a wax enhancer
    i highly doubt your phantom skis are gonna be as fast as my condition/temperature waxed ones
    specially fluro
    and none of the world cup teams fired their techs and went secret dentist sauce as far as i know
    you probably need much less product than you think depending on base material
    we run outta bulk bottles which makes it easier to dose accordingly
    removing excess sure helps if you want to run 20 minute cycles
    ends up working better on a 2x or 40 minute cycle
    a metal brass or steel roto brush kicks nylons ass when prepping or removing a or b
    probably gonna want a dust mask
    we put a complimentary og hot wax on top as most phantom applications dont look as fast as a freshly waxed and roto brushed
    and in my decades of making em fast my experiance is people look at theyre skis and remember the 1st couple runs
    i understand the science and eveyone who i have hooked up gives it positive reviews so far
    my test will be on our hut trip when i dont wax for a week
    i will say our tune shop guys are sceptical and report possible issues with base welds not adhering as well
    but i cant speak to this other than my coreshots are fine
    red= fast and safe
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  13. #263
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,899
    Thnx SFB; Words of wisdom from a vet. Trustworthy intel.
    Master of mediocrity.

  14. #264
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
    Posts
    11,192
    I have 10 days on my new Koalas.... They are way faster then an untreated base. They aren't as fast as some flouro treated fresh tuned goodness. But I never have time for that, so phantom will be on the whole quiver by the end of the year.
    www.dpsskis.com
    www.point6.com
    formerly an ambassador for a few others, but the ski industry is... interesting.
    Fukt: a very small amount of snow.

  15. #265
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    18,936
    Quote Originally Posted by grskier View Post
    I have 10 days on my new Koalas.... They are way faster then an untreated base. They aren't as fast as some flouro treated fresh tuned goodness. But I never have time for that, so phantom will be on the whole quiver by the end of the year.
    This. Phantomed the quiver. Improvements for me since I didn't wax regularly.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  16. #266
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    986
    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    i highly doubt your phantom skis are gonna be as fast as my condition/temperature waxed ones
    specially fluro
    Well yeah...that's always been DPS's position that fluro is still faster. But I certainly haven't noticed them being any slower than universal wax in average conditions, but in warm conditions they're definitely faster than universal wax.

    But since I'm not racing I don't have a reason to spend more $ on fluro
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  17. #267
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by grskier View Post
    I have 10 days on my new Koalas.... They are way faster then an untreated base. They aren't as fast as some flouro treated fresh tuned goodness. But I never have time for that, so phantom will be on the whole quiver by the end of the year.
    Yep, agreed. Got 3 pairs of skis Phantomed, totally blown away by the performance. With zero wax the bases are running very fast everywhere except the lift line, especially through the wet slop we've had here lately in WA.

  18. #268
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Stumptown
    Posts
    6,885
    Maybe I missed it somewhere, but are people still putting storage wax on for over the summer?

    I donít race and I generally hate waxing my skis, so this sounds like a good option for me.

  19. #269
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Truckee
    Posts
    785
    Time to chime in on this thread. I watched all of the Phantom hoopla for year 1 to see what real people were saying and results seemed encouraging. This year Phantom 2.0 came out and I decided that it was time to give it a go. It's been a bit of an ordeal. Initially, I planned on the DIY route and ordered some from a popular online retailer. Being December, I was finding it hard to find enough bluebird days to get the correct amount of UV light to cure the two parts.

    So in looking for alternatives to natural UV cures, I discovered the video that introduced that cure stations were now available in some local shops. So off I went to the one local shop that has the station, and laid down another $99 for the product and $50 for application. The results were less than encouraging for sure. The shop had warned that it might take a few runs for excess product to wear off and that may cause initially slow skis. Five days and approximately 100K vertical feet later, things were going really bad. It was a real drag in just about all conditions and my ski buddies had resorted to calling me Pokey. I contacted DPS and product manager Nick did his best to discover a solution. His first suggestion was to ask the shop to do a base grind to "refresh" the surface. He arranged for that to happen.

    A few days later, I retrieved my skis from the Phantom capable shop and found that they did not have a base grinder, so they simply reapplied the Phantom treatment. That shop also blamed everyone in the world except for themselves for the trouble. Took the skis out for a day and it was a "no go", literally. Gave it about five runs, one being a straight-line in Alpine Bowl at a speed of 16 mph. This time I took the skis to my regular shop and had a base grind done (but no additional wax applied).

    The first few days, everything seemed pretty normal and life was good. But by about day 7 and another 100K feet, life is a drag again and my name reverted from Snake Oil to Pokey. This morning I went ahead and hot waxed again. Thank god.

    I wonder how much of the Phantom success stories is just people wanting to believe that "this has to be working" because I just spent $99 on it. There's a sucker born every minute, and this time I was one of that crowd.

    FWIW, I have the original kit for DIY application (sans box) available if a Tahoe mag wants to claim it, free, at Alpine Meadows. The weather conditions for DIY application look primo for the next two weeks.

  20. #270
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    986
    Not to be a DPS defender, but it sounds like you got hosed by the shop. Dollars to donuts if they had a problem of following the simple direction of "do a base grind" then they probably fucked up something else.

    I luckily didn't pay $99 for mine (hopped on the kickstarter early). But I've taken my 116 waisted skis that I phantomed to Alpine, Squaw (even closing day last year), OR, and plenty of BC and they haven't been waxed since last early spring. They are definitely going as fast as any of my other regular wax skis, if not better gliding in really warm temps.
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  21. #271
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Behind the Zion Curtain
    Posts
    4,037
    I never waxed my skis, the only time they saw wax is when SFB would kidnap them about once a year and tune them. This year they were phantomed and there is a definite difference, my skis are quite a bit quicker than my usual no tune self. I usually have ski tracks running, I've picked up 3 mph on flats I go through often.

  22. #272
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Truckee
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalNomad View Post
    Not to be a DPS defender, but it sounds like you got hosed by the shop. Dollars to donuts if they had a problem of following the simple direction of "do a base grind" then they probably fucked up something else.
    Like I said, the shop blamed me, blamed the ski manufacturer, and the democrats for the poor performance. Anybody but them. Respected local shop, but it's unlikely I will ever deal with them again.

    Extra Phantom pack claimed by Skeeze BTW

  23. #273
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vacationland
    Posts
    4,265
    Shop that has a phantom cure station but doesn't have a grinder sounds weird, but whatevs.

    Just had my GF's wailer 112's done at a local DPS tanning salon, they charged $59 to apply to her 3 year old skis that needed the full prep job and I already had the kit. I got the same spiel about taking a few runs for excess product to wear off so I'm guessing that is a talking point from the clinic by the rep.

    First day on them was a storm day and the GF who is still figuring out how to ski big day conditions was being taken for a ride, she thought they were faster than she wanted her skis to be. Hopefully she gets over it, I'm probably going to get a couple pairs of mine done too.

  24. #274
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    6,192
    Quote Originally Posted by gone2alpine View Post
    Time to chime in on this thread. I watched all of the Phantom hoopla for year 1 to see what real people were saying and results seemed encouraging. This year Phantom 2.0 came out and I decided that it was time to give it a go. It's been a bit of an ordeal. Initially, I planned on the DIY route and ordered some from a popular online retailer. Being December, I was finding it hard to find enough bluebird days to get the correct amount of UV light to cure the two parts.

    So in looking for alternatives to natural UV cures, I discovered the video that introduced that cure stations were now available in some local shops. So off I went to the one local shop that has the station, and laid down another $99 for the product and $50 for application. The results were less than encouraging for sure. The shop had warned that it might take a few runs for excess product to wear off and that may cause initially slow skis. Five days and approximately 100K vertical feet later, things were going really bad. It was a real drag in just about all conditions and my ski buddies had resorted to calling me Pokey. I contacted DPS and product manager Nick did his best to discover a solution. His first suggestion was to ask the shop to do a base grind to "refresh" the surface. He arranged for that to happen.

    A few days later, I retrieved my skis from the Phantom capable shop and found that they did not have a base grinder, so they simply reapplied the Phantom treatment. That shop also blamed everyone in the world except for themselves for the trouble. Took the skis out for a day and it was a "no go", literally. Gave it about five runs, one being a straight-line in Alpine Bowl at a speed of 16 mph. This time I took the skis to my regular shop and had a base grind done (but no additional wax applied).

    The first few days, everything seemed pretty normal and life was good. But by about day 7 and another 100K feet, life is a drag again and my name reverted from Snake Oil to Pokey. This morning I went ahead and hot waxed again. Thank god.

    I wonder how much of the Phantom success stories is just people wanting to believe that "this has to be working" because I just spent $99 on it. There's a sucker born every minute, and this time I was one of that crowd.

    FWIW, I have the original kit for DIY application (sans box) available if a Tahoe mag wants to claim it, free, at Alpine Meadows. The weather conditions for DIY application look primo for the next two weeks.
    Hilarious. Sorry you got fuckered
    life ain't guaranteed, love your people while you can

  25. #275
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    24,195
    I got a bro deal I can't refuse on phantom glide so gona try it
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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