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Thread: Style versus substance
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10-23-2017, 11:23 AM #1Registered User
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Style versus substance
Sure, we all know that many of my posts present the perfect example of using such an abrasive style that the substance is quickly buried. This is NOT about that, so I'm going to try my best to not be abrasive, and just tell you what I think I have learned, and see if you agree or can add anything to it.
In the history of the American struggle to secure civil rights and basic political, economic and social equality for all people, various folks have tried lots of different methods. A pretty stark example of that was sen in the late 50's and ealry 60's when Malcolm X and Martin Luther King presented two ends of the spectrum. I believe they were both effective, and that they were more effective BECAUSE OF their contrast. There's good historical evidence that the Eisenhower and Kennedy Administrations both felt that supporting (even if covertly) King was the best way to disarm Malcolm. And when Malcolm was gone, Bobby Seale and Huey Newton served a similar role, allowing King and his successors to earn the "benefit of the white doubt."
Despite these contrasts, even King and the organizaons he founded were repeatedly told that they were seeking "too much too fast," that they were "too confrontational," that "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar." Over and over again, even as they deployed non-violent protest techniques and were beaten and hosed, and attacked by dogs, many in the majority community would tell them they were being too aggressive in their attack on injustice. We are all lucky today that they did not back down, I hope we can alla gree on that.
I mention this history only because I think that it displays early forms of what remains a very modern attempt to quiet minority voices. When women fight for basic equality, they are often called "pushy." When gay people demand fair treatment, some folk will accuse them of coming across as "shrill." And when blacks point out lingering bigotry, they are accused of "playing the race card." And all these folks are told, and have been told for well over 75 years, that if they would just take a more conciliatory tone, and raise their concerns more politely, they would be more effective. They were told that in the 1890s, they were told that in the 1930's, they were told it in the '50s, and the '80's, and they are told the same thing today.
But I think the people who told Bobby Seale and Martin Luther King alike, that they were too aggressive, and the people who told women in the 60's that they should try being more polite in their protests, and the people who are still telling women and minorities today that they should not be so upset and should try to "catch more flies with honey" are not offering useful advice. Instead, they are trying to get someone whose opinions make them uncomfortable to shut up. Just like they wanted them to shut up in the 60's, in the '80's, and last decade.
I think more people should be able to see, since inequality continues today, that telling someone to tone down their rhetoric is not helpful advice, it's a semi-polite equivalent to telling them to shut up. And this is what some folks mean when they get bent out of shape because someone is, once again, a century later, still "tone policing" minority viewpoints. What do you think?"Judge me by the enemies I have made." -FDR
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10-23-2017, 11:24 AM #2Hucked to flat once
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Too many words to read.
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10-23-2017, 11:26 AM #3
Trying too hard.
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10-23-2017, 11:26 AM #4
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10-23-2017, 11:28 AM #5
jesus christ
quit bloviatingZone Controller
"He wants to be a pro, bro, not some schmuck." - Hugh Conway
"DigitalDeath would kick my ass. He has the reach of a polar bear." - Crass3000
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10-23-2017, 11:29 AM #6
aint nobody gonna read this bs
Zone Controller
"He wants to be a pro, bro, not some schmuck." - Hugh Conway
"DigitalDeath would kick my ass. He has the reach of a polar bear." - Crass3000
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10-23-2017, 11:31 AM #7Hucked to flat once
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It's like quitting booze or weed for a pre-determined amount of time like 30 days. It's easy to do knowing you can come off the rails on day 31 to celebrate and then you over do it because you're out of practice.
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10-23-2017, 11:38 AM #8Registered User
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10-23-2017, 11:40 AM #9
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10-23-2017, 11:47 AM #10
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10-23-2017, 11:47 AM #11
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10-23-2017, 11:49 AM #12Good-lookin' wool
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10-23-2017, 11:50 AM #13
pio, you are no MLK nor Bobby Seale
The objection to your marriage thread was premised on your scolding officiousness, i.e., telling us what we need to do to succeed in life, as if you and only you possession the knowledge of what it takes to have a magically wonderful marriage, and all the rest of us are dumbfucks. MLK and Bobby Seale did not operate that way.
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10-23-2017, 11:50 AM #14
Jamespious has neither style nor substance.
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10-23-2017, 11:58 AM #15
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10-23-2017, 12:03 PM #16
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10-23-2017, 12:04 PM #17Registered User
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Pio, of course you are spot-on but if you think any of these dentist or actually going to listen to you I don't know what to tell you dude
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10-23-2017, 12:05 PM #18Registered User
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I really thought this was going to take longer than 40 inutes. But it didn't.
I actually TOLD YOU that I thought you guys were more about style than substance, and every last one of you attacked the form of the message (including its messenger) rather than its substance."Judge me by the enemies I have made." -FDR
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10-23-2017, 12:06 PM #19
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10-23-2017, 12:08 PM #20
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10-23-2017, 12:09 PM #21
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10-23-2017, 12:10 PM #22
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10-23-2017, 12:10 PM #23
Did someone say substance abuse?
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10-23-2017, 12:12 PM #24Good-lookin' wool
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Whether his opinion is "spot-on" or not isn't the point. Here's a friend's study. If you don't read it all and weigh in with approval, I don't know what to tell you dude.
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10-23-2017, 12:20 PM #25Registered User
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