What is the Toyota/Lexus Bike Equivalent?

[Mazderati]

What is the Toyota/Lexus full-suspension bike equivalent? Build quality and reliability above all. Maybe it's not the lightest and maybe it doesn't come with the latest tech. That's fine. Which bike will last 20 years?

[Mazderati]

Why would somebody put a guarantee on a bike. Hmm. Very interesting.




There is something to be said for the lifetime warranty. But Hyundai had (maybe has) a 10 year warranty where Toyota/Lexus have much smaller warranties and still make the superior product.

[Bruce Springskiin]

20 years for a bike? What kind of bike, and what do you use it for? How much do you use it? From my experience with bikes, there is enough evolution in brakes drivetrain and wheels that planning on updating more frequently might be worthwhile components can be replaced and or upgraded as long as there are not compatibility issues. Mountain bikes depreciate the first few years pretty steeply. You could get a couple years old bike with good tech and components for a decent value.

I like Santa Cruz, they have a good reputation for customer satisfaction. And their design, production and customer feedback seem to work well. Don’t think you could go with any of the bigger established companies. Giant, Trek, Specialized, Cannondale and may more.

[gravitylover]

Which bike will last 20 years?

Many of them will last 20 years but you'll be stuck with parts that aren't compatible with whatever the current standards are at that point. Actually that will probably happen long before that so you'll have already gotten a new bike (or three).

[Mazderati]

Don’t think you could go with any of the bigger established companies. Giant, Trek, Specialized, Cannondale and may more.

I read this as there is not enough difference between bike brands to identify a superior product. Is that right? Are there are no brands with the reputation for being built better than others? Seems true from recent looking. Like the bike market is a flood of barely distinguishable brands/models/tiers/styles/options that are almost all manufactured by the same overseas facilities. Like finding a reason to buy one brand over the other is an exercise in futility because they're almost the same product.

My current bike is 20 years old and in great shape but it's been ridden intermittently. The same will likely happen with the next. I'm not bombing downhills or putting in 50 mile rides every week or even every month.

The Giant warranty is good to know and I appreciate the shout out on Santa Cruz customer service because that seems at least as important as the bike given the nearly indistinguishable designs and features. Thanks.

[skaredshtles]

You need a simple aluminum hardtail. It will likely last you 20 years of intermittent riding.

[Mazderati]

Hardtail is out of the question.

[XXX-er]

I got a 31 yr old Marin i still ride around town and to the bar but I question whether you really want to be riding around a 20 yr old bike

unless of course you are drunk?

[Mazderati]

Let's not get hung up on the 20 year time point. That was meant to speak to the build quality of the bike only.

[Ted Striker]

...there is not enough difference between bike brands to identify a superior product...

Reliability and planned obsolescence wise, that is true. Mostly because all the parts that wear out are made by companies other than the 'brand'.

Design wise, some brands *might* stand the test of time a little better than others, but most riders self-validate, so many grains of salt are required.

For the casual rider, it's hard to beat Giant (and maybe Specialized) for bang/buck.

[El Chupacabra]

Soft tail Moots?

Can't really compare a car to a bike this way. Bikes have a lot fewer parts, all of which are cheaper and easier to replace than on a car. Lots of weird proprietary shit in the bike industry that may not be available 5/10/15 years later. Much smaller production on bicycle lines than most cars, so finding replacement parts for that weird proprietary shit gets harder later.

Bikes cost so much less than cars that you're probably just better off buying a replacement bike every 5 years and not worrying about a 20-year worthy bike.

[snowaddict91]

toyota could probably offer a lifetime warranty on their vehicle frames...

I lol'd.

The hard part about a bike as everyone has said is components. If you want the equivalent to a 4 banger tacoma, I would say get a steel hardtail 29er. That will last forever.

[XXX-er]

IME what you want is a bike you can ride down mainstreet no hands while semi piste

the marin bear valley makes you feel like a rock star when you are stiing up ther with yer hands in the pocket scoping out the milfs ... who think you are fucking idiot but whatever eh




cuz you are just lookin to impress that one who digs the dangerous kind

[Chugachjed]

Turner

[evasive_MT]

Like the bike market is a flood of barely distinguishable brands/models/tiers/styles/options that are almost all manufactured by the same overseas facilities. Like finding a reason to buy one brand over the other is an exercise in futility because they're almost the same product.

No. That's equivalent to saying that any selection of skis with roughly the same length are more or less the same. Sure the differences might be hard to see for a beginner, but they're significant.

That said, for what you want, go to a bike shop you like and buy the big-brand closeout deal that fits you best. 20 years of casual use is optimistic, but not impossible.

[ACH]

Shifting industry standards impact a bikes lifespan if you want it to last 20 years. As others have said, drive train evolution effects this a bit, but more recent developments like shifting headset and axel standards play a bigger role IMO.

That said, I would consider Santa Cruz and Turner to be the Lexus equivalent relative to Giant as the Toyota. Both of the afore mentioned brands make a great product and employ sophisticated suspension design, however you will also pay more for them relative to an equivalent Giant, which IMO gives nothing up in suspension performance.

Scale of economy, Giant is the largest manufacture in the World, they can afford a big R&D budget, they own all of their own manufacturing, and they have much greater leverage in negotiating with component suppliers like SRAM and Shimano.


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[XXX-er]

Giant is so big they make bikes for other brands that get badged & stickered with whatever the brand wants

And they can build them better/faster than America or anywhere else in the world cuz all the best welders work there, all the best people work there building more bikes than anybody else since the 80's

the profit margins on a Giant are big too while a Santa Cruz or Yeti not so much and you gotta pay your mechanic to put them together

whereas you just take a Giant out of the box

[dunfree]

Much smaller production on bicycle lines than most cars,

don't think production volume is the sole or even a major reason. Millions of bike frames produced a year.

it's more bikes are like consumer electronics consumers plan on tossing it in 5 years so they don't care if the components won't be supported in 5 years. So the large manufacturers leverage things for cost cutting and other crap, if they want to. the mongoose for sale at TarMart is from the same parent company (Dorel Sports) as a Cannondale

[Ted Striker]

... I would consider Santa Cruz and Turner to be the Lexus equivalent relative to Giant as the Toyota. Both of the afore mentioned brands make a great product and employ sophisticated suspension design, however you will also pay more for them relative to an equivalent Giant, which IMO gives nothing up in suspension performance.

There's a reason Dave Weagle ended up in a legal battle with Giant: maestro is essentially the same as dw-link.

Just like Specialized/Scott/Norco/Turner/Ellsworth all using Horst links yet each giving it a different name.

Scale of economy, Giant is the largest manufacture in the World, they can afford a big R&D budget, they own all of their own manufacturing, and they have much greater leverage in negotiating with component suppliers like SRAM and Shimano.

Yep. And why Mazdaratti should just go to the giant store.

[toast2266]

I'll be a contrary voice: I'm not a huge fan of the giants. They're cheap, and the build quality shows that.

If I wanted a bike that'd last a long time, it'd be a Turner or a Devinci. Overbuilt frames and good warranties. Specialized, Santa Cruz, and Trek are all too light to hold up well over time.

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[ACH]

I'll be a contrary voice: I'm not a huge fan of the giants. They're cheap, and the build quality shows that.

Huh, contradicts my experience (shrug)

[Mazderati]

Soft tail Moots?

Moots is on the short list. I need more travel than the YBB provides so it would have to be used. Which is fine if the bike is in great shape.

IME what you want is a bike you can ride down mainstreet no hands while semi piste

the marin bear valley makes you feel like a rock star when you are stiing up ther with yer hands in the pocket scoping out the milfs ... who think you are fucking idiot but whatever eh

cuz you are just lookin to impress that one who digs the dangerous kind

Hah. Pedal-powered booze cruise with no-hands. Steeze factor = elevated.

it's more bikes are like consumer electronics consumers plan on tossing it in 5 years so they don't care if the components won't be supported in 5 years.

Great analogy. Planned obsolescence. Which is too bad.

How much Kool-Aid have you drank in your lifetime?

The difference between ski brands, among skis of a similar style, is largely indistinguishable. If you think the difference between brand X & Y's all mountain ski is actually measurable, you are drunk. Manufacturing processes and materials are largely standardized across the industry.


Lets face it, we largely by bikes because of the marketing influences and brand identity.... when choosing between brands that we readily identify with, we are often swayed by colour. If brand identity and colour don't factor into your equation, you are likely shopping by price or %of discount.

At no time in MTB history has there been a clear stand out for quality design or materials. a few mm here or a degree there makes more of difference in the marketing hype. This is not to say that over all, as a whole, the industry has progressed its designs, material and manufacturing. but this has been a global movement, and influenced by manufacturing capabilities largely made possible by other industries.

I challenge you to disprove this theory. The most significant variable is the rider, not the equipment. If the equipment was so significant and so noticeably different, there would be clear trends in wins and podiums... if LetterKenny has taught us anything, it's all about the W's.

And even ski facilities. Doesn't Elan manufacture skis for a lot of the boutique brands? Skis that are probably based off the trace of an existing ski.

The more I look, the more the bit on marketing and branding rings true.

I think everyone would agree there were some less than desirable designs.

Turner

...Turner...

...Turner...

...Turner...

Turner is a familiar name but a) the website shows carbon bikes only which seems weird for a company that was kind of known for polished aluminum frames and b) who the hell owns and makes the bikes? Wiki says SAPA assumed manufacturing for Turner in 2003. SAPA stopped producing bicycles in 2011 but another company, Zen, took over the SAPA manufacturing facility the same year. Zen closed shop in 2016. I mean, are Turner bikes being produced in the same facility as every other bike at this point? Looking through the FAQ section of Turner's website suggests a big change for the company sometime around 2016.

[XXX-er]

I'll be a contrary voice: I'm not a huge fan of the giants. They're cheap, and the build quality shows that.

If I wanted a bike that'd last a long time, it'd be a Turner or a Devinci. Overbuilt frames and good warranties. Specialized, Santa Cruz, and Trek are all too light to hold up well over time.

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they all break if you work hard enough at it or get the rong bike for the jawb

I don't know what you ride but the odds are really good it was made IN the giant factory by some of my yellow bretheren

edit: besides my Marin the milf magnet ( did I mention I dig alliteration ) I got a 13 yr old prophet that has nothing wrong with it but the tech of a new bike 29er /1x/tubeless/dropper seat/yada is superiour

so do you really want to be riding a 20 yr old mtnbike??

[toast2266]

I don't know what you ride but the odds are really good it was made IN the giant factory by some of my yellow bretheren

Yeah, for sure. I'm not suggesting giant can't make a nice bike. I'm just saying that the giants on the market aren't the best for long term durability. Which is fine; they're less expensive because of it.


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[Dantheman]

For the casual rider, it's hard to beat Giant (and maybe Specialized) for bang/buck.

I'd give that nod to Diamondback right now. Their new Release frame is very well reviewed and the build kit on the Release 3 is completely nuts for the price. Pike RC3, X1, etc. level parts front to back for $2500. I think a Trance or Reign with a similar build is at least $4000.