What is the Toyota/Lexus Bike Equivalent?

**Mazderati** · 11-02-2017, 12:55 PM

Would 160 mm work better? Trail riding is the focus; city riding is not. Some city, sure. For various reasons, I'll take all the travel I can get in a bike that is still made to go uphill.

**Dantheman** · 11-02-2017, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mazderati

Would 160 mm work better?

Minimum 170 mm, dual crown fork up front. Or this:

or this:

**creaky fossil** · 11-02-2017, 01:30 PM

Why not a $100 anybike for city errands, and then a trail bike for when you want to ride trails? I wouldn't want to be locking up my $2k+ bike in an errand-running situation, and then there's the complete waste of machinery compared to a $100 anybike for errand-running purposes.

Of DTM's two options, the latter, the stride-a-lot fitness-walker-bike is clearly the superior tool.

**Mazderati** · 11-02-2017, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

Minimum 170 mm, dual crown fork up front. Or this:

or this:

The first bike is like a metaphor for doing as little in life as possible. The second looks like it belongs in SkyMall or on QVC. Can I get back to you?

ETA: The second picture is from Hammacher. Even better.

**jackstraw** · 11-02-2017, 01:34 PM

My bar bike was $15 at a yard sale...a Trek even. Took it on a little vaca and the tire let go. Cost me $20 for a new tire!

**Mazderati** · 11-02-2017, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by creaky fossil

Why not a $100 anybike for city errands, and then a trail bike for when you want to ride trails? I wouldn't want to be locking up my $2k+ bike in an errand-running situation, and then there's the complete waste of machinery compared to a $100 anybike for errand-running purposes.

Yeah, there's no way a nice bike is getting chained to a traffic sign which I think is one of Dan's points.

**Dantheman** · 11-02-2017, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mazderati

Yeah, there's no way a nice bike is getting chained to a traffic sign which I think is one of Dan's points.

That's one of the big ones. Listen, I ride to work every day possible and do all the errand running I possibly can via bike. I also ride my Reign 10+ miles RT on pavement frequently because there are a few trails I prefer to ride from home. Never ever ever has the thought crossed my mind to use the Reign for the urban stuff.

**creaky fossil** · 11-02-2017, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

That's one of the big ones. Listen, I ride to work every day possible and do all the errand running I possibly can via bike. I also ride my Reign 10+ miles RT on pavement frequently because there are a few trails I prefer to ride from home. Never ever ever has the thought crossed my mind to use the Reign for the urban stuff.

Ditto. I have 7 miles of mostly pavement to my furthest & most common trailhead destination, so 14 RT. I even have a 29er SS that feels more efficient on the cross-town pavement, but I ride the 26" trail bike 99% of rides. And wouldn't ever use the trail bike for errands.

If you want max double-duty for your errand bike, mine is probably a $350 bike in cost (wheels expense mostly) but looks like nothing anyone would want. It's a singlespeed non-descript steel cyclocross bike with rim brakes. No issues locking it anywhere in my town. I can do trail rides on it, they're fun but a completely different type of fun compared to the trail bike.

**El Chupacabra** · 11-02-2017, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by creaky fossil

It's a singlespeed non-descript steel cyclocross bike with rim brakes. No issues locking it anywhere in my town. I can do trail rides on it, they're fun but a completely different type of fun compared to the trail bike.

"Type 3 fun"

**XXX-er** · 11-02-2017, 02:46 PM

IMO/IME you don't need suspension for city/town/paths and roads, I took the front suspension fork off my mtn bike when I repurposed it as a touring bike

my buddy has that style of recumbent in the pict and he sez its not that good around town because yer sitting down low/gotta bring the legs up to peddle so it sucks for the stop n go but what its good for is grinding out the touring KMS and so he has been gone for > 2yrs / 30,000 kms across Canada, down the eastern seaboard thru mexico , central america and I think the last FB post was in Boliva

**jono** · 11-02-2017, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Mazderati

The only thing I'll be racing for is a beer at the end of a ride. Riding will be mostly trail and some running around the city.

jono, you mentioned a list of less than desirable brands. Who would you include?

I am doing a lot of riding on a bike with a Horst-link like that Nukeproof and it's a hell of a fun bike (at speed anyway). But I'm not convinced that I'd look for a Horst for long term use. Either a single pivot with giant bearings or another 4-bar that offers a big advantage over single pivot seems better.

I have a short list of companies to avoid, others might add a few, but of course single data points can be kind of meaningless. Ellsworth comes to mind...but engineers aren't really allowed to like Ellsworth. I've also had the opposite experience with Santa Cruz service than many here, but it's probably luck and different people: I hear they basically disbanded their tour/demo group lately, so...I'll STFU on that. Not a product issue anyway. Other companies are maybe just too small/niche and don't speak to my desires. It's easier to say a model to avoid than a company, since most make different enough models to find some that aren't a good fit but others that would be.

Have you ridden and liked (or hated) anything besides your current bike? I'll second the 140-150mm range; finding some downsides to a 160mm fork (though not enough to shorten it yet, personally) but I haven't felt like dropping to 120 vs. 140 or 150 is all that beneficial unless you can do it on the fly.

**MrMan** · 11-02-2017, 03:19 PM

Again get a nice hardtail for your purposes. My carbon epic rips my 40 mile round trip bike commutes to work with half pave half gravel rail bed, is an amazing light flickable capable trail bike. Zippy around town. Way Less maintenance than a boingo bike.

**plugboots** · 11-02-2017, 03:22 PM

post #9

Hardtail is out of the question.

**MrMan** · 11-02-2017, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by plugboots

post #9

Yes I know. But considering his intentions? Unless maybe he just wants to look cool or something. Not a troll, just trying to give sound reasonable advice here. Get a higher component spec for less money too. I only see wins here. Could always throw a thud buster or some such thing on it. With a 27.2 diameter post on my Epic it's amazing how much flex/comfort that I get out of that post.

**jono** · 11-02-2017, 03:36 PM

Your love of your own equipment is well documented, Rog.

**Mazderati** · 11-02-2017, 03:37 PM

6' 4" 220 lbs., two hip scopes, and a sensitive taint. Suspension required.

**Mazderati** · 11-02-2017, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by jono

Ellsworth comes to mind...but engineers aren't really allowed to like Ellsworth.

Due to the rear-most pivot point? The Ellsworth Truth was a great looking bike back in the day.

**MrMan** · 11-02-2017, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mazderati

6' 4" 220 lbs. and two hip scopes and a sensitive taint. Suspension required.

Ok got it. DW link bikes like Pivot and Ibis would be my rec for best pedaling full sussy's

**skaredshtles** · 11-02-2017, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by MrMan

Again get a nice hardtail for your purposes. My carbon epic rips my 40 mile round trip bike commutes to work with half pave half gravel rail bed, is an amazing light flickable capable trail bike. Zippy around town. Way Less maintenance than a boingo bike.

Recommending Special Ed?

**skaredshtles** · 11-02-2017, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Mazderati

Due to the rear-most pivot point? The Ellsworth Truth was a great looking bike back in the day but it's obviously not the same company now.

Debatable.

But that's all it had going for it.

**skaredshtles** · 11-02-2017, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by MrMan

Ok got it. DW link bikes like Pivot and Ibis would be my rec for best pedaling full sussy's

Also - look for designs with lower leverage ratios - otherwise your rear shock may have to have RETARDED amounts of pressure in it. Which can be problematic.

Of course, if you go coil... you get extra cool-cred.

**MrMan** · 11-02-2017, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Recommending Special Ed?

Nah just a HT in general. If full suss, anything over 100mm travel for the OP's purpose seems silly to me. Like skis over 100mm underfoot for groomers, bumps, and shallow snow lol.

**jm2e** · 11-02-2017, 04:21 PM

If I was getting my first bike in a decade, I'd sure as shit want a full squish machine. Fuck the hardtail. You get back into biking, you want to experience the wonders of modern technology. If down the road you find that your real love is logging tons of XC miles and spinning your pedals until your taint is hard and calloused, by all means you'll know it's time for a hard tail. But in the beginning, everyone wants to feel like they're skiing powder when riding downhill.

I'd avoid any Yeti. I've literally lost count of the number of people I know who've broken them. One friend has broken 3. I've seen 2 broken ones on trail rides. Carbon AND alloy. And I can't say that all reports were rosy in regards to dealing with their CS.

I'd avoid Specialized. Partly because they're a shitty company. Partly because they build their frames really light and prone to breakage. And partly because of shit like that fucking yoke shock attachment. That said, lifetime warranty to original owner could be helpful.

I'd avoid Intense. Loads of stories of breakage. Saw one that was broken in half. Not cracked, not dented. Front half & Back half held together by brake/shifter cables.

Personally, I had a bad experience with Rocky. So many little parts in their bushing intensive rear linkage. Every single one of them was custom, and tiny. If one rolled under the workbench, or cracked, or whatever, bike was out of commission until you could convince a dealer (good luck finding one stateside) to order the bushing/hardware set for you for $150 bucks just so you could get one little plastic cone washer. Fuck that. I hear it's different now?

I'd probably also avoid complicated rear linkages. Four Bar, Horst, Single Pivot Variations are great and ride great. Most of them are easy to work on and get bearings/parts for which means in 10 years you'll still have a great bike. Double or triple the number of linkage parts and make them all custom to that one sub-model of that one line from that one brand for that one year and shit is going to suck for you in the future when all you need is a weird bolt/nut/bushing combo thing but can't get it.

**skaredshtles** · 11-02-2017, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by 406

<snip>
I'd probably also avoid complicated rear linkages. Four Bar, Horst, Single Pivot Variations are great and ride great. Most of them are easy to work on and get bearings/parts for which means in 10 years you'll still have a great bike. Double or triple the number of linkage parts and make them all custom to that one sub-model of that one line from that one brand for that one year and shit is going to suck for you in the future when all you need is a weird bolt/nut/bushing combo thing but can't get it.

You know, you make a lot of sense.

Perhaps a Guerilla Gravity The Smash, Shred Dogg or Trail Pistol?

Simple design. Standard hardware. Good specs at a given price point.