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  1. #51
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    Just buy a Santa Cruz. They look bitchin' sitting in the rack on top of your car. That's all that matters.

  2. #52
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    I know I have a wee bias here but I think Ibis deserves a mention in here- Always making great bikes and not too many tweeks yr to yr. High end stuff but generally at more reasonable prices than some of the other comparable bikes from Santa cruz, specialized etc. I feel like any of the various iterations of the mojo is a mountain bike that you could keep for 10yrs and be pretty psyched each ride

    I also am curious Maz- are you totally talking mountain bikes here? bc I think a cyclocross bike or touring bike could be up your alley. Those technologies don't seem to change much and you can have a good bike that you can do some easier trails as well as for scooting around town and easily keep it for 20 yrs without too much changing
    skid luxury

  3. #53
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    Ibis chainstay is too long. Old tech. Did they change it this year?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    This, actually, does not need to be true. There are numerous crabon repair facilities that I know of just on the Front Range. I'm sure there are others around the country as well...
    Oh, thought that was just for road bikes.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    Ibis chainstay is too long. Old tech. Did they change it this year?
    not sure- this is not my knowledge dept in the family but I will ask bc i like to learn about these things too
    skid luxury

  6. #56
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    My application probably aligns more with how cyclocross bikes are used but rear suspension is a necessity.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-bear View Post
    not sure- this is not my knowledge dept in the family but I will ask bc i like to learn about these things too
    Depends where you ride/terrain. The new SC HT LT is a little bit longer cs vs just the HT. Shorter cs is more playful (front end pops up easier) and puts your weight over the back tire for traction. Little bit longer cs is better handling at speed on DH type stuff. ...Generally speaking

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-bear View Post
    I know I have a wee bias here but I think Ibis deserves a mention in here-
    I'm not biased (other than to dw-link) and like to keep stuff a long time (bought my Turner in 2009) and Ibis is on my short list for new bike.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    This is the bike I referenced which was a nod to mid '90s rear suspension exploration. The only thing I know about the current GT brand is, like Cannondale, ownership is a conglomerate that also makes housewares.
    You don't want a GT. The links in their little i-drive thing around the bottom bracket are notorious for wearing out. GT's already starting to move away from that system.

    And you don't want a Cannondale. Or a Specialized. Or a Trek. Or a Scott. All have proprietary rear shocks with frame specific sizing / mounting. 5-10 years from now, I'd venture a guess that replacement units will be hard to come by.

    I'd also avoid Yetis (Switch Infinity is unlikely to have replacement parts down the line). And I'd avoid anything that has a flex stay, just because I don't trust them in the long term (so that'd be some Yetis, some Marins, some Felts, probably some others).

    And just to be clear - I've owned bikes from most of those companies I just listed, and for the most part, they were nice bikes. But while I think they rode well, and they held up ok for a year or two, that's different than a bike that's going to last for a decade or more.

    I'd probably put some of the Ibis's on the list of bikes that might work well. Plenty of old Mojo's kicking around that are still going strong. No proprietary crap on the newer mojo's, and they have threaded BB's. I'd stay away from the Ripley's though - weird pivots will likely get fucky over time.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 406 View Post
    I'm not biased (other than to dw-link) and like to keep stuff a long time (bought my Turner in 2009) and Ibis is on my short list for new bike.
    It would be hilarious after all the shit talking over the years if you got an Ibis and I got a Turner.


    My MojoSL is an '08, bought used in 2010, still riding it til earlier this year. It's still a solid bike that could probably go for a few years more just requiring more frequent maintenance these days. The biggest issue with it is the 1 1/8 straight tube steerer. It was really hard to find a fork with the specs I wanted last year.

  11. #61
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    For the casual rider who isn't putting in enough time to notice the nuances of suspension and really push their bike to its limits, it's tough to beat Giant or Kona in terms of value and they come with pretty decent builds / components.

    Unless you're really going to get serious, don't bother paying more for Santa Cruz (which I own, for the record) or the other "premium" brands... unless the extra scratch is no big deal. Don't buy Specialized - fuck them and their lawyers.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    You don't want a GT. The links in their little i-drive thing around the bottom bracket are notorious for wearing out. GT's already starting to move away from that system.

    And you don't want a Cannondale. Or a Specialized. Or a Trek. Or a Scott. All have proprietary rear shocks with frame specific sizing / mounting. 5-10 years from now, I'd venture a guess that replacement units will be hard to come by.

    I'd also avoid Yetis (Switch Infinity is unlikely to have replacement parts down the line). And I'd avoid anything that has a flex stay, just because I don't trust them in the long term (so that'd be some Yetis, some Marins, some Felts, probably some others).

    And just to be clear - I've owned bikes from most of those companies I just listed, and for the most part, they were nice bikes. But while I think they rode well, and they held up ok for a year or two, that's different than a bike that's going to last for a decade or more.

    I'd probably put some of the Ibis's on the list of bikes that might work well. Plenty of old Mojo's kicking around that are still going strong. No proprietary crap on the newer mojo's, and they have threaded BB's. I'd stay away from the Ripley's though - weird pivots will likely get fucky over time.
    I believe Cannondale has finally moved away from the proprietary shocks this year (rears, that is). I kept an old Lefty Max running mostly by rebuilding it myself, which was never too awful. And I hear the rebuild on those pull shocks was super easy, but I skipped a Jekyll that I liked a lot a couple years ago because of those pull shocks. Something to be said for replacement parts. I'd live with a Lefty again for the weight savings/stiffness if they sort out a SuperMax, but the upside of pull shocks eluded me.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    Ibis chainstay is too long. Old tech. Did they change it this year?
    Just asked and on the mojo3 (the more xcish) he believes it went shorter and then from the mojo HD3 to HD4 it got slightly longer/ slacker overall
    skid luxury

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    I believe Cannondale has finally moved away from the proprietary shocks this year (rears, that is).
    They're still using a custom Fox shock with a handlebar mounted gadget. And (at least on the Trigger) it looks to be a non-standard size, so replacing it will likely be tricky. Maybe some of the other models use a regular shock though.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    They're still using a custom Fox shock with a handlebar mounted gadget. And (at least on the Trigger) it looks to be a non-standard size, so replacing it will likely be tricky. Maybe some of the other models use a regular shock though.
    I believe the guy I spoke with said they were using metric sizes, but I may be wrong. At any rate, he was slightly inebriated but adamant that their shocks could be replaced easily. I'd live with the handlebar gadget in a heartbeat--on 4 or 5 test rides I've found it much more useful than reaching down to fiddle with a CTD-style lever and much more beneficial to switch travel. But that might be more of an Audi feature than Toyota.

    The metric/non-metric shock standards might be a stealthy unknown if trying to go 20 years.

  16. #66
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    I've been riding my 2011 Turner 5.Spot since 2011 and driving my 1998 Toyota Tacoma since 1998.

    Does that answer your question?

    Also I agree with toast about Yetis. I had a 575 from 09-11, I weigh 155 loaded fully, it barely made it 2 seasons (4-5 mos avg season length) before feeling sloppy. I had a Turner 5 Spot before the Yeti and got another 5 Spot after it. Not really comparable construction quality/durability.

    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    The metric/non-metric shock standards might be a stealthy unknown if trying to go 20 years.
    You mean like how my 7.5" x 2.0" shock for my 5.Spot shouldn't be available? But somehow a 190mm x 50mm works fine?

    Trunnion mounts, that's a different story and similar to how Special Ed's always had funky, yoke-y mounts integrated into shocks.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    ...it sounds like Turner is just a name now, too.
    With the exception of the big guys who are deemed too uncool and insufficiently burly for core riders (lol) most of the boutique brands are just names. I would argue that Turner is less so than some of the newer guys, because Dave and co are still designing their bikes, and 99% of the Turners in existence were built in the US by small fab shops.

    This is a little goofy, but a good look at where the industry has gone since you bought your last bike.

  18. #68
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    I was actually thinking more along the lines of "will these take?" But it's a valid point that if you're doing whatever to keep a bike going for 20 years a slightly less optimal shock might be fine with you. Course, that's true of a lot of parts.

  19. #69
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    A full suspension design will be old news in a couple years. Not to mention that 20 years ago rim brakes were completely acceptable, and frankly worked great. Try finding a 26" rear wheel with a rim braking surface. So they're really is no comparable FS bike to a Toyota/Honda as others have mentioned. You might as well just look for a FS bike from any of the brands that have been around for a long time.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    Not to mention that 20 years ago rim brakes were completely acceptable
    Totally.

    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    and frankly worked great.
    Wait. You lost me.

  21. #71
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    Yeah, I keep thinking of what it would take to keep using a bike for that long and it always comes back to fixing your own stuff. That said, my wife's town bike is her old mountain bike from 1998 and it's only a little crappier than it was then.

    Re: Yeti, couple years ago when they first showed the Switch Infinity I went on their website to check on replacement parts. In October the little unit was listed at $150 but out of stock. In December it was in stock--at about 3x that price.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    Try finding a 26" rear wheel with a rim braking surface.
    Ya know, I have a set of 26" machined-sidewall rims by Syncros, 32h that I got in early 00s and never put to use.

    I can tolerate rim brakes on my cross bike... until it gets greasy, snowy, icy.

    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    This, actually, does not need to be true. There are numerous crabon repair facilities that I know of just on the Front Range. I'm sure there are others around the country as well...
    Still the materials used in making & repairing "carbon" frames are tough to recycle usefully. Despite what some people who've lived in cities their whole lives might think, plenty of places around the USA don't have any real effective recycling of simple stuff like glass & plastic. So: theoretically it should improve, but looking back on recycling in the USA for glass & plastic over the past 25 years, I'd be skeptical.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Totally.



    Wait. You lost me.
    Not everybody needs all that braking power. I ride with beginners all the time, and good old 15? year old XTR or XT brakes would work awesome for them, and anybody can fix and maintain them.
    A couple weeks ago I rode at Duthie Park with my friends kids, and they had no trouble at all stopping with some cheap side pulls.
    I bleed my own brakes and it's a pain in the ass compared to loosening and tightening a cable bolt, or whatever, (you know what I mean). The 100 mile mtn bike races have been around for a long time, and I even rode one w/ XTR cantis. I actually still like their simplicity.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Wait. You lost me.
    No shit. I'd give up rear suspension before I gave up disc brakes. Shit, modern high performance FS bikes would be downright dangerous without modern high performance disc brakes.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    Not everybody needs all that braking power. I ride with beginners all the time, and good old 15? year old XTR or XT brakes would work awesome for them, and anybody can fix and maintain them.
    A couple weeks ago I rode at Duthie Park with my friends kids, and they had no trouble at all stopping with some cheap side pulls.
    I bleed my own brakes and it's a pain in the ass compared to loosening and tightening a cable bolt, or whatever, (you know what I mean). The 100 mile mtn bike races have been around for a long time, and I even rode one w/ XTR cantis. I actually still like their simplicity.
    I mean, sure. A dialed set of quality rim brakes in ideal conditions stops ok. I still have old rim brakes on a bike or two.
    But they suck if it's wet out. And they suck if the pads get glazed. And they suck if your rim goes out of true. And they suck if your rim gets dented. And they suck if some dirt gets in the cables. etc...

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