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  1. #151
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    But what would Lou have written about then?
    Life is not lift served.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyski View Post
    Amer is going to eat their fucking lunch, which is a bummer because Iíd been a huge fan of Dynafit.
    So true. I have access to Dynafit pro-deals, yet Iím scrounging for deals on the Amer products I really want. Allowing eccentric tinkerers to come up with innovative products will occasionally produce truly revolutionary products, such as the original tech binding, but a much more consistent strategy is to have a team of smart people methodically coming up with what people actually want. I donít need to know whoís doing product development at Salomon/Arcteryx/Atomic, because their track record speaks for itself. From all the bad ideas that have made it to market, I assume Dynafit must have management structure that stifles criticism.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveski View Post
    Worst part of all this is having to worry about the life span of my mercuries while shopping for a backup pair.
    fyi, look for a pair of vulcans on sale (found a pair on snowinn for reasonable end of season deal) and run them without flex stops or tongue and you basically have a mercury+. Much better lateral stability but forward flex is fairly similar for stiffness but better in progression, imho. End of your worries.
    What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?

  4. #154
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    i like hoji
    and dyna stuffs
    my titans served me great are toast
    and the hawx 130 xtd is the boot im puttin my $$ on and feet in
    reguardless of what dynadickgobbler lou and the clickbait stash dipshit here says
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    I donít need to know whoís doing product development at Salomon/Arcteryx/Atomic, because their track record speaks for itself.
    I know some of these people, and can vouch for their willingness to seek input and criticism from outside their companies. We have often seen prototypes two or more years in advance of their retail launch and the product managers and upper echelon management seem genuinely interested in our opinion. Maybe more significantly, they make it a point to get input from North American sources as well as European.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    I donít need to know whoís doing product development at Salomon/Arcteryx/Atomic, because their track record speaks for itself.


  7. #157
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    Name a company that makes touring gear that hasn't had a few notable failures . . .

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Name a company that makes touring gear that hasn't had a few notable failures . . .
    Exactly

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    So true. I have access to Dynafit pro-deals, yet Iím scrounging for deals on the Amer products I really want. Allowing eccentric tinkerers to come up with innovative products will occasionally produce truly revolutionary products, such as the original tech binding, but a much more consistent strategy is to have a team of smart people methodically coming up with what people actually want. I donít need to know whoís doing product development at Salomon/Arcteryx/Atomic, because their track record speaks for itself. From all the bad ideas that have made it to market, I assume Dynafit must have management structure that stifles criticism.
    Itís all about ball barring these days....(fletch)
    #1 goal this year......stay alive +
    DOWN SKIS

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    I know some of these people, and can vouch for their willingness to seek input and criticism from outside their companies. We have often seen prototypes two or more years in advance of their retail launch and the product managers and upper echelon management seem genuinely interested in our opinion. Maybe more significantly, they make it a point to get input from North American sources as well as European.
    That makes sense, and my guess is that the Euro market carries more weight (higher volume sales, right?). No doubt, the design team is dialed in very well to Euro sensibilities, or at least the things they won't object to (crampons).

    I look toward an innovative company as being a thought leader - something Dynafit used to do very well. Today, it seems as if half of what they do is change for change's sake - like American cars in the '60's ... add some fins to this year's model, change the tail lights, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier View Post
    Agreed. They should have just taken the Vulcan, gave it a good liner and dropped the price.

    Or kept it at $1000 and added the cool lock lever in addition to a better liner.

    If this boot was a Vulcan 2.0 I'd probably buy it. But instead it's just a complex tlt7.
    The lever is indeed, a nice piece of engineering, and the inner wedge might pave the way for future models having a more progressive flex. Credit where credit is due.

    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    But what would Lou have written about then?
    Interesting how he gave them a qualified "pass" on the weight, at least in comparison with brands not named "Dynafit".

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Name a company that makes touring gear that hasn't had a few notable failures . . .
    I think the Salomon boot tech toe incident goes beyond being a 'notable failure'.
    Life is not lift served.

  12. #162
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    For anyone who's interested, there's a new pair of 26.5 Vulcans posted in Gear Swap.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    I think the Salomon boot tech toe incident goes beyond being a 'notable failure'.
    I feel like a lot of other failures and recalls weíve seen could have resulted in similar consequences. Seems wrong to judge a productís failure by the actual consequences? And not judge othersí by the potential consequences?

    However, I believe there was a PR failure too, in dealing with the result. That is a separate but important matter.

  14. #164
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    The Salomon toe failure was some middle school science fair level engineering.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using TGR Forums mobile app

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    I feel like a lot of other failures and recalls we’ve seen could have resulted in similar consequences.
    What examples are you "feeling"?
    Life is not lift served.

  16. #166
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    Because it won't be sold for a year, I wonder what the chances are that it'll change before it's sold. Flex, last and toe/heel ledge in particular. The possibility remains that it could ski really well as is

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    What examples are you "feeling"?
    I get Lindahl's point. One could argue that the 1st Gen. Vipec toes could have had calamatous results, had the pin loosened/fell out at the wrong time.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  18. #168
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    Near misses are valuable lessons. I agree.

    But the salomon toe was built for complete and almost immediate catastrophic failure. Which is exactly what happened. Not fit for purpose. The vipec pins were not a great design idea, but they were still fit for purpose with maintenance.
    Life is not lift served.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    I get Lindahl's point. One could argue that the 1st Gen. Vipec toes could have had calamatous results, had the pin loosened/fell out at the wrong time.

    ... Thom
    And the first Kingpins. But the Vipec issue was, if I recall, one of Fritschi overestimating people's capacity to correctly follow a overly complicated and delicate mounting and adjusting process. And the Kingpin pins fell out because the manufacturing process differed slightly from the way prototypes had been constructed. These are examples of poor judgement, shortsightedness or a lack of thorough real world testing. This sort of problem is pretty common (the F1 EVO walk-mode was similar) although not always as dangerous as having a tow pin fall out. But the Quest inserts were held on by glue.

    Glue. That is a different level of fuck up. That is lazy. It shows a profound indifference to safety.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    I think the Salomon boot tech toe incident goes beyond being a 'notable failure'.
    Because it was caught in a preproduction run with limited distribution to test out before making it avalible to the masses or because this website was used as a soap box?

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    I feel like a lot of other failures and recalls we’ve seen could have resulted in similar consequences. Seems wrong to judge a product’s failure by the actual consequences? And not judge others’ by the potential consequences?.
    We are talking about gear so check your feelings gear at the door

    The Salomon tech fitting was so obviously poorly designed when you compare it to a dynafit fitting, big holes where they would only weaken the fitting and no rib to strengthen it, you didnt need to be an engineer to see just how fucking bad the engineering was.... Salomon lost huge cred
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    I get Lindahl's point. One could argue that the 1st Gen. Vipec toes could have had calamatous results, had the pin loosened/fell out at the wrong time.

    ... Thom
    If the pins were in the binding when you clicked in the spring pressure would hold them in the arms, its when you click out that you might lose one but in any case it was not "stupid engineering"
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Because it was caught in a preproduction run with limited distribution to test out before making it avalible to the masses or because this website was used as a soap box?
    The fittings were glued in. Raking Salomon over the coals was completely appropriate. Every pair ever made would have failed in short order if they had been skied hard. This would have been an irresponsible release even if they had only been distributed to Salomon athletes.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Because it won't be sold for a year, I wonder what the chances are that it'll change before it's sold. Flex, last and toe/heel ledge in particular. The possibility remains that it could ski really well as is
    The toe/ heel ledge is a completely new mold since those thicker sections really require a bit of re-engineering in the molds to make sure everything is flowing and cooling at the right rates. Little bit more than just grinding out the molds to add more length. Don't think you'll see those on this boot. MAYBE we'll get them on a future beef version
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalNomad View Post
    The toe/ heel ledge is a completely new mold since those thicker sections really require a bit of re-engineering in the molds to make sure everything is flowing and cooling at the right rates. Little bit more than just grinding out the molds to add more length. Don't think you'll see those on this boot. MAYBE we'll get them on a future beef version
    Good point. Fingers crossed they do get it dialed in.

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