TAHOE: LAND OF THE SNOWFLAKES -- 17/18 STOKE

[mmmm...pow!]

Attachment 230234 Tamarak yesterday. Fuck corn.

Atta boy. Now tell us about all the traffic and how it wasn't really worth it.

[h-atlas]

Ottime, such a bummer about the 4/8 closing for Kirkwood homeowners with kids. It's hard to really understand how much it sucks until you have kids that want to ski and hiking multiple laps is not fun for them. I felt pretty screwed over when Heavenly closed all the beginner terrain at Cal Basin at the beginning of April last year and it was literally the first time we had good weather for toddler skiing last winter. It's sad because you're tied to your location and you can't easily do anything about it. I've just been trying to adopt a Buddhist philosophy and understand the impermanence of everything - which is also a good thing when you have toddlers! I'm just hoping Ikon results in some pressure for the Epic pass... wait and see. Keep fighting the good fight though.

Sierra at Tahoe open until 4/22 and if you buy a pass it works the rest of the year and next year. I have a feeling that some of the other resorts are going to start offering discounted tickets with any other pass like last year.

[Wobby]

^^^
Check out race dept. sometimes you can score a parent ticket cheap it there is a race going on.
Or, volunteer for the race get a day tix 1/2 price food and a tix for another day, Can't beat it.
www.signupgenius.com

Thanks for the suggestion!

[emcee]

I don't have any words for the KW closing on 4/8. I get that it's only us zero-profit pass-holders bringing sack lunches and crashing on couches, and they clearly want to consolidate traffic to heavenly which is more crowded and has more profit-add services (bars and shops).

It's annoying to use the "forest service permit" excuse though -- there's definitely a hard USFS-mandated close date, but it's later than 4/8 that's for sure. Especially given all the traffic the past few weekends; they'll likely close the resort with full parking lots.

I get the financials, I get that our broke ass voices don't matter, but that still doesn't make it right.

P.S. blurry long-range view of that 20' crown at Kirkwood last weekend, ripped down to the ice on the ground

[TahoeJ]

What I don’t get is, why not at least stay open Friday - Sunday only for a few more weeks. Plenty of weekend skiers out there buying $9 beers and lunch. They are daring you to go somewhere else so at some point you’ve got to call their bluff or they have zero motivation to change. I don’t even get out to KW much but between the early close and the new overly conservative mountain management at GnarStar (there’s someone new in charge this year BTW) I’m moving on... and will make sure to mention it in their follow up questionnaire.

Squaw may be a shit show but at least they’re trying...

[janky]

I agree. I don't know why a few weekends wouldn't hurt.

Squaw was actually less crowded, *IMO*, this year than last year. It was still a mess though on big days and a lot of powder days fell on weekends this year (lucky and unlucky for me). Last year the parking lot filled up so quickly (partly because there was so much snow in the parking lots) but I don't recall too many occasions the parking lot filled up this year. With that said, I had a friend stuck on 89 for an hour on Sunday and then took another 30 minutes to actually get to parking. Gonna be really interesting to see what effect IKON has...

What I don’t get is, why not at least stay open Friday - Sunday only for a few more weeks. Plenty of weekend skiers out there buying $9 beers and lunch. They are daring you to go somewhere else so at some point you’ve got to call their bluff or they have zero motivation to change. I don’t even get out to KW much but between the early close and the new overly conservative mountain management at GnarStar (there’s someone new in charge this year BTW) I’m moving on... and will make sure to mention it in their follow up questionnaire.

Squaw may be a shit show but at least they’re trying...

[TahoeBC]

Couple from today



2K of this did not suck

[hercule33]

Say what you will about Vail, they are really good at making money. I just don’t think that there is a good business case to keep Kirkwood open in April. Heavenly is different because they get the tourist ($$$) crowd but I think Vail has an agreement with the forest service that Heavenly has to close around the middle of April. I don’t think Kirkwood has one so they could stay open but I said before I doubt there is a business case.

It’s great if people like TahoeJ fill out surveys but I don’t think that there are enough people like him. Even worse I doubt that Vails target audience, the big money spenders, are going to care when Kirkwood closes. And those people spend more money in one day on the hill at Vail Resorts than what me and TahoeJ spent the whole season. As the old saying goes, money talks.

As for the ICON pass they are definitely the new comers to the party and have to throw down. If the Epic Pass is more family oriented, they are trying to be much more “core” by offering resorts with better terrain and the ability to ski into May, although I think they will severely limit operations. If KSL was in Vail’s position, I think both Squaw and Alpine would close in April. But they are the new kids on the block, they don’t have a stellar operations record so they need something to lure people over.

Lastly, I still hate KSL. Yes, Vail might close Kirkwood in early April but you know that from early November to early April the lifts will run rain, snow, wind or sunshine. And Vail tells you how the closing date is so you know what you are getting. KSL may stay open longer but how many powder days do you miss because of their crappy operations and let’s be honest that’s the only time you really want to ski those mountains. When conditions are bad, the groomers at Heavenly, Northstar and Kirkwood are better IMO.

[TahoeJ]

KSL may stay open longer but how many powder days do you miss because of their crappy operations and let’s be honest that’s the only time you really want to ski those mountains. When conditions are bad, the groomers at Heavenly, Northstar and Kirkwood are better IMO.

I can say with confidence there's a bunch of us in this thread who strongly disagree. There's plenty of non powder days where the off piste terrain at Squawlpine is extremely fun, especially in the spring. Sure, if it's boilerplate then grooming matters, but otherwise who gives a crap?

[bodywhomper]

there's a semi-mag here who's b-day is in late april (24th). it used to always be celebrated on the nearby weekend at kirkwood. laps in the corn and bbq in the lot. kirkwood used to host snow-related events after closing down the ski hill. i remember watching something related to sleds. watching sled highmark thimble and jumps getting built in the main area at the base of 6/10/5/11.

i've ridden lifts at heavenly on the CA side in may. maybe their USFS permit has changed....

[meter-man]

Light Ranger or B__ (miss ya bro!), can you post up their special use permits? Pretty sure they're public docs...

[TahoeJ]

I thought I had Kirkwood's USFS agreement but can't seem to find it. In looking, however, I came across Alpine Meadow's agreement and it was interesting to see that the only statement regarding operational periods was this:

"The holder shall maintain the improvements and premises to the standards of repair, orderliness, neatness, sanitation, and safety acceptable to the authorized officer. Standards are subject to periodic change by the authorized officer. This use shall normally be exercised at least 160 days each year or season. Failure of the holder to exercise this minimum use may result in termination pursuant to VIII.B."

There's nothing at all about an operational end date or maximum, so they can stay open as long as they want. I'm curious what this section says in the Kirkwood and Heavenly agreements. Unfairly blaming the USFS via word of mouth is a time-honored tradition amongst penny-pinching ski corporations, it should be noted.

[gimpy]

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[hercule33]

I can say with confidence there's a bunch of us in this thread who strongly disagree. There's plenty of non powder days where the off piste terrain at Squawlpine is extremely fun, especially in the spring. Sure, if it's boilerplate then grooming matters, but otherwise who gives a crap?

I said Squaw Alpine are not fun to ski in bad conditions. Skiing perfect corn on a beautiful spring day in Sherwood are not bad conditions in my book. The bad conditions I was talking about are those that were found in February of this year.

As to people who care about this, they are those rich bay area folks who booked a February condo, tickets and lessons back in December for $5,000 and now wish they booked at Northstar since they have better groomers, snow making and village in a bad snow year. BTW, those are the skiers that Squaw/Alpine is trying to attract (village, gondola cough cough).

[emcee]

I can say with confidence there's a bunch of us in this thread who strongly disagree. There's plenty of non powder days where the off piste terrain at Squawlpine is extremely fun, especially in the spring. Sure, if it's boilerplate then grooming matters, but otherwise who gives a crap?

I agree with hercule entirely except-- it's not the groomers, it's the powder which you can actually access because Vail has completed snow safety on the frontside and opened the lifts by 10am while KSL still has everything on hold until the next day.

[gimpy]

Bestest most developed and consolidated corn is below 8k. Still cookin above that. Found same on pass yesterday. We backed off full on solar aspects up high today cuz we would have made a big ol mess and ruined it for when it does set up.


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[TahoeJ]

You said only powder days... it’s right up there in the thread and I even quoted it. So that’s what I was responding to.

[hercule33]

I agree with hercule entirely except-- it's not the groomers, it's the powder which you can actually access because Vail has completed snow safety on the frontside and opened the lifts by 10am while KSL still has everything on hold until the next day.

Totally agree. Kirkwood over the last three years has been amazing at opening terrain quickly after the storm despite all the challenges that it takes to open that mountain. Unfortunately as any person running a mountain will tell you, the money is in the blues, not ungroomed blacks and I was focusing on the money.

I get the KSL mentality though, which reminds me of surfing. You are willing to put up with a lot of crap for that one perfect run down KT because that one perfect run is better than 10 powder days on the backside of Northstar. I just can't support KSL, from their shitty mountain ops to their dumb village/gondola/water park proposal. It's a shame because Alpine is my favorite resort in Tahoe.

[claymond]

I can say with confidence there's a bunch of us in this thread who strongly disagree. There's plenty of non powder days where the off piste terrain at Squawlpine is extremely fun, especially in the spring. Sure, if it's boilerplate then grooming matters, but otherwise who gives a crap?

You can count this LCC bro in there. This Tuesday was my 3rd day ever at Squaw and first non pow day where I wasn't following someone in low vis as we rushed all over the mountain. It was insanely fun. Little drops all over, chalky in the protected stuff with just a few spots it was super slick and slush elsewhere. Makes me think I need to spend a day at snowbird with a newcomers eye.

Bitching: A half-off ticket is $89!

[mcski]

You said only powder days... it’s right up there in the thread and I even quoted it. So that’s what I was responding to.

I got your back on this one TJ, and although emcee has a fair point, Hercules entire take made me lol when I read it, it was so absurd.

[hercule33]

I got your back on this one TJ, and although emcee has a fair point, Hercules entire take made me lol when I read it, it was so absurd.

That's easy to say after a Miracle March. Remind me again how great the skiing was at Squaw this February.

But don't take my word for it. Look back in this thread where skier666 says how much better Kirkwood skied than Squaw earlier this year.

[TahoeJ]

Sure, and I’m at Sugar Bowl this season, not Squaw. But again, KSL sucks but at least they aren’t closing on April fucking 8th! That’s inexcusable...

Ditching Squaw as a protest clearly isn’t going to work, either. I did it this year for my own reasons. Best hope at this point is Sierra Watch, who just had a major victory in the Martis / 267 development and it bodes well for their fight against the village (fire safety was heavily emphasized in that decision).

Lol... we all seem a little testy after skiing powder for 4 straight weeks! ;-)

[hercule33]

You said only powder days... it’s right up there in the thread and I even quoted it. So that’s what I was responding to.

Good point. I mispoke. I meant to say good seasons with a lot of powder days.

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[T-Boz]

The best days lately at Squaw/Pine have been non powder days. No crowds, everything is open, snow is soft, you can ski just about every line. I do love the epic pow days and I had plenty this year. I'm just getting too old to deal with the junkshow and crowds. Today was epic, maybe firm down low first thing, but south and east facing were butter first thing. Light towers to C2 as good as it gets, hero gnar butter. Then KT west face all afternoon, all time! Chute-75, Dead Tree, Rock Garden, nose, alternates almost as good as powder. Suns out, nice and empty.

[hercule33]

Sure, and I’m at Sugar Bowl this season, not Squaw. But again, KSL sucks but at least they aren’t closing on April fucking 8th! That’s inexcusable...

Ditching Squaw as a protest clearly isn’t going to work, either. I did it this year for my own reasons. Best hope at this point is Sierra Watch, who just had a major victory in the Martis / 267 development and it bodes well for their fight against the village (fire safety was heavily emphasized in that decision).

It's not just a protest that I am ditching Squaw although my hatred of KSL has grown very strong. Since I don't have lodging in North Lake, I have a choice and for me I prefer the Vail pass. 15 years ago, there is no way I would have chosen Kirkwood, Heavenly and Northstar over Squaw and Alpine but right now Kirkwood is my favorite resort in Tahoe. It's not too far from where I live, they run the lifts on a powder day, lift lines are easily avoided and they have an open boundary policy.

Part of the reason I have a beef with KSL is that it does not make sense for me to ski Alpine anymore... Thanks KSL!