TAHOE: LAND OF THE SNOWFLAKES -- 17/18 STOKE

[meter-man]

Do both! I'm in Chicago

[LightRanger]

Do both! I'm in Chicago

Also: shotgunning and blowing up cans.

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[MtnRA]

^^It's possible but we just skied out of va lakes up to 11,400' yesterday and things were either bulletproof or mank. seemed like it got rained on.

Bullet proof or mank. Which would you prefer to ski?

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[Banh Mi]

Bullet proof or mank. Which would you prefer to ski?

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I had the luxury of skiing both today at Squaw!


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[Ottime]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a couple of years ago (before the new GM) the rope line just before Jeff's Line was a permanent closure. I thought they were preserving it for the cat skiing operation. Last year I noticed the permanent closure was lifted and that zone was already open. I know that I skied it several times, but once there was a ski patrol standing there guarding it all day when the avalanche danger was high to stop people from ducking the rope, which many people would have done for sure.

So this year will probably be more of what we saw last year with that policy. Probably open a day after a storm, but delayed avalanche control for sure. I'm thinking they just updated the map and nothing more.

That was never permanent closure, but a boundary line. That changed last year, but there is no new posted boundary line. This new map suggests it is way further out than you could get from traversing from Jeff Line under the palisades. You need to come across the shoulder of Martins Point to get to most of this terrain.

I was thinking the same thing as you. But it seems pretty weird for a resort, especially a VR resort to have such a confusing unmarked boundary. The way it is drawn it is right above two cliff bands. One that has a section that very large. Not to mention a lot of micro traps. If I was looking at liability, I'd want my boundary to be well marked.

Reports it the top and montes was skiing well today.

[Ottime]

If they are going to extend their ridgeline terrain, Kirkwood should open the Cirque to the public.

This.

Don't add a lift for access. Check in. Beacon, shovel, probe and partners. Times release.

Way better than just adding a huge amount of terrain.

I would not be surprised if VR wants to put in the Martin Lift. A lot of intermediate terrain over there. Long runs down the ridge to the notch rock, fall line with an easy return of they put a basic snow bridge in across the big gully.

There is some mini gulf terrain over there, but mostly intermediate/advanced more than expert. Perfect for the masses. And it's pretty. Gets a shot ton of sun for the most part though. And Avi bowl would add one more big open bowl.

[TahoeBC]

Really outstanding opening day at Kirkwood today, really impressive how pasted the upper elevations are, in stark contrast to what Heavenly has opened (they could open a shitload more) I was blow away by the amount of terrain Kirkwood offered up today. The super consolidated base with warm overnight temps provided a really smooth spring like surface. Icy in a few spots but over all a very backcountry lift served feel today. After a few runs I ran into Vets and we skied till about 1:30. base area and some runouts are getting thin though, hopefully more snow will arrive sooner than later

[Vets]

I was great making spring turns with you TahoeBC.
Today felt like one of the spring days when they only open on weekends in the late spring and Mother Nature had all week to make the snow feel great.

[mcski]

I was going to say let’s go ski but let’s go ride instead. Animal Crackers with tacky dirt beats groomers off Gold Coast for sure.

Good call. I'll be poking around TC on the retired and creaky steed

[bodywhomper]

The 1st hand narrative for last week's hourglass incident has been posted
https://www.sierraavalanchecenter.or...lass-avalanche

[lepistoir]

The 1st hand narrative for last week's hourglass incident has been posted
https://www.sierraavalanchecenter.or...lass-avalanche

I'm glad they posted. We all benefit from the first-hand account and it's good for all of us to self-examine after accidents, close calls, or even getting away with tugging the white tiger's tail. That said, can we please stop saying there were no instabilities when any of the red flags is flying? In this instance, there were at least three flags flying on the day of this accident: significant new snow, wind loading (particularly the side of the bowl they rode), and basal facets/PWL. There definitely is the feeling, to me, of powder fever, whether first turns of the season, having to work the next day or anticipating the hordes that are stampeding up the skintrack behind you on Tamarack. I don't want to discourage anyone from posting about incidents they see or are involved in because I hope you see reporting to the community as a gift that helps us all learn to be safer.

[rod9301]

I'm glad they posted. We all benefit from the first-hand account and it's good for all of us to self-examine after accidents, close calls, or even getting away with tugging the white tiger's tail. That said, can we please stop saying there were no instabilities when any of the red flags is flying? In this instance, there were at least three flags flying on the day of this accident: significant new snow, wind loading (particularly the side of the bowl they rode), and basal facets/PWL. There definitely is the feeling, to me, of powder fever, whether first turns of the season, having to work the next day or anticipating the hordes that are stampeding up the skintrack behind you on Tamarack. I don't want to discourage anyone from posting about incidents they see or are involved in because I hope you see reporting to the community as a gift that helps us all learn to be safer.

Yes

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[LightRanger]

Granjero gets some local NPR love...
https://ww2.kqed.org/science/2017/11...phill-rapidly/

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[bodywhomper]

That said, can we please stop saying there were no instabilities when any of the red flags is flying? In this instance, there were at least three flags flying on the day of this accident: significant new snow, wind loading (particularly the side of the bowl they rode), and basal facets/PWL. There definitely is the feeling, to me, of powder fever, whether first turns of the season, having to work the next day or anticipating the hordes that are stampeding up the skintrack behind you on Tamarack. I don't want to discourage anyone from posting about incidents they see or are involved in because I hope you see reporting to the community as a gift that helps us all learn to be safer.

This is getting into semantics, but, for me, a red flag is not necessarily the same as an instability in the snowpack. Also, I believe the intent of the statements about instabilities is related to observations made in the field of an unstable snowpack. Observing instabilities is a red flag, though.

The way that I often see instabilities discussed online from field observations mimics the style often used by bob athey when he regularly posted on teletips.

[skysos]

I was thinking the same thing as you. But it seems pretty weird for a resort, especially a VR resort to have such a confusing unmarked boundary. The way it is drawn it is right above two cliff bands. One that has a section that very large. Not to mention a lot of micro traps. If I was looking at liability, I'd want my boundary to be well marked.

The general policy of reducing guest exposure to various dangers seems much reduced at Kirkwood with the current management. I was amazed how they had almost nothing roped off on the open chairs today up there. Anything was fair game off of 6 all the way over to and including Rabbit Runs even though there were creeks, stumps, rocks and such all over the place. This is a good thing. It reminds me of what Thanksgiving skiing used to be like before snowmaking and grooming influenced what people expect at a resort now.

Over at Heavenly they rope EVERYTHING off except the 2 pitiful runs with snowmaking coverage.

[lepistoir]

This is getting into semantics, but, for me, a red flag is not necessarily the same as an instability in the snowpack. Also, I believe the intent of the statements about instabilities is related to observations made in the field of an unstable snowpack. Observing instabilities is a red flag, though.

The way that I often see instabilities discussed online from field observations mimics the style often used by bob athey when he regularly posted on teletips.

Maybe it it's all semantics. When we look for the language to use that best helps us stay safer, we just need something that works. I like the red flags because they are simple, evocative, and focus me on the biggest dangers. If thinking about "instabilities in the snowpack" keeps you safe, go for it. I think the folks in the accident were too focused on rounding facets and temperature gradients or whatever instead of the very obvious big picture items that were staring them in the face. You might say they had their heads in the snow. But still, their method probably worked for them 100% of the rest of the time. Gratefully, they will all get to continue with their tiger training.


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[bodywhomper]

To be clear, I'm a red flag, ALPTRUTH, kinda guy.

My guess is that those folks underestimated a PWL, fell into some heuristic traps, and let that other party's experience to lead them to ski that line. Glad they are relatively ok and shared their experience.

[Ottime]

The general policy of reducing guest exposure to various dangers seems much reduced at Kirkwood with the current management. I was amazed how they had almost nothing roped off on the open chairs today up there. Anything was fair game off of 6 all the way over to and including Rabbit Runs even though there were creeks, stumps, rocks and such all over the place. This is a good thing. It reminds me of what Thanksgiving skiing used to be like before snowmaking and grooming influenced what people expect at a resort now.

Over at Heavenly they rope EVERYTHING off except the 2 pitiful runs with snowmaking coverage.

That is nothing new at KW. If anything, they have become more risk adverse inbounds since VR took over.

What is new about this is an undefined boundary. Where does the "resort" actually end? Is there signage there?

The new terrain is only about 1k vert, but has tons of fluted drainages, terrain traps, etc to deal with, but more so, the runs have fall lines that bring you away from the base facilities and require a long slog back into the resort.

There is a difference between - if it is open you can ski it, and - there is a resort boundary, some where out there. You go ahead and guess. If you hit 88, you went too far. Sorry.

My nephew was all over those gulllies it seems.

Edit: typically heavenly gets less early season snow pack, and due to the nature of its off piste (granite boulders, bungee trees, etc) it require more snow off piste. And they have always kept it closed longer due to the greater percentage of gapers.

[Ottime]

Just got a text it is pouring at KW. If true, crazy. We and muggy down at the coast.

[powdork]

What is new about this is an undefined boundary. Where does the "resort" actually end? Is there signage there?

ummm, wouldn't that be the ideal situation?
if anything i'm gonna go out on a limb and say wherever they decide the boundary is there will be way too many signs. if not, i for one will be grateful.

and i'm not really sure a broken ankle is any excuse for not being out there.


edit- it poured here and at CP according to snotel so i think it's likely at the wood too.

[Ottime]

I ran out of duct tape or I would have been there. The cast is a little packed out, but tight enough for a family ski.

Yeah, your right. Lack of signs is good, especially if you skin into that zone.

And true, VR has put in over 30O new signs. Like the ones that close the ridge line. But those suck as well. They read "no uphill hiking", but are enforced as "don't uphill hike above this sign". It can be tough to not violate VR rules from the inside due to the boundary policy changing annually without notification. Open, closed, partially open, always open if you can reach it via open areas of the resort, changing a boundary to an inbounds closure. I just want consistency for a season. But whatever. I won't be traverse hiking all that much until February.

Cast comes off Monday so here I come. My kid wants me to take him up so he can ski while I drink beers at the base. He's never ridden chairs by himself, but I considering it to fuel his stoke.

[~mikey b]

He’ll be fine. You’ve got to let them start to run free a bit.

[lepistoir]

He’ll be fine. You’ve got to let them start to run free a bit.

And eventually you can’t wait to kick them out


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[TurxSki]

I ran out of duct tape or I would have been there...

I thought you guys always had a bunch of those little orange plastic strap, that you can pull out of hiding when *things get serious*?

[powdork]

Cast comes off Monday so here I come. My kid wants me to take him up so he can ski while I drink beers at the base. He's never ridden chairs by himself, but I considering it to fuel his stoke.

just ride up with him. noone will make fun of you for downloading 7...