The Nation Courts Amazon for HQ2

[Peruvian]

I’m sure the traffic on the LIE will be rectified in time for HQ2 to move to Queens.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Lulz^^


Musk is going to bore an Amazon employee commuter tube by then.

[Skidog]

Lulz^^


Musk is going to bore an Amazon employee commuter tube by then.

Co branding. I like it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app

[FLS]

I’m sure the traffic on the LIE will be rectified in time for HQ2 to move to Queens.

Lulz^^


Musk is going to bore an Amazon employee commuter tube by then.

Nah, easier to just set up tolls for "congestion" pricing. Amazon gets through for free on the newly renamed AIE. If you are not affiliated with amazon, then you are the congestion and will pay, (maybe through some type of amazon prime set up).

[JimmyCarter]

At least all the extra people won't make the LGA experience shittier than it already is...

[phatty]

5000 corporate jobs averaging 150k a year coming to Nashville.

That location did not have an average salary quoted in the press release. Ops center employees are lower salary combined with lower CoL in Nashville will lead to lower average salaries. Would be surprised to see it top $80k.

[Slopetime]

Gotta love this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...announcements/
Over 2 BILLION dollars in tax breaks from New York and Virginia.
How are the local taxpayers standing for this?

By saying, damn there's 5,000 + new direct jobs coming to our region probably. That will generate additional jobs thru related service industries.

[stuckathuntermtn]

It's actually gone crazy in the last 5 years. Adding roughly 20k residents. Median home value up around 1mil and avg age between 20-44 bachelor's degree or higher. The Amazon hq will surely speed things up even more.

What still surprised me was the avg income out of the 2 hqs 150k avg. 50k jobs between the 2. Roughly 7.5billion in salary alone. Lots of chiefs, not too many Indians.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app

I remember when going over the bridge from Roosevelt Island was terrifying. Now there are chic rooftop bars there?

[stuckathuntermtn]

Now that Amazon gave these cities half the HQ that was promised, does that mean the cities can give Amazon half the tax breaks?

Ha!
I should hope so.
You guys ever see the Last Week Tonight about corporate tax incentives. Fucking bullshit.

[Bobby Stainless]

That location did not have an average salary quoted in the press release. Ops center employees are lower salary combined with lower CoL in Nashville will lead to lower average salaries. Would be surprised to see it top $80k.

Prepare to be surprised.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...er/1987289002/

The Nashville jobs will include management and tech-focused jobs, including software developers, with earnings expected to average $150,000, Carney said. He expected to recruit locally and from outside of the area.

Amazon said it will receive performance-based incentives of up to $102 million based on the company creating 5,000 jobs with average wages greater than $150,000.

I would actually prefer 5000 80k a year salaries as that group would have more renters in it.

[reckless toboggan]

Socialism for corporations, capitalism for citizens.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/14/...public-records

Amazon’s HQ2 stunt could come back to haunt it

The backlash to its big office move was immediate — and it’s growing

There was always something distasteful about Amazon’s quest to find a home for its HQ2. Even when it seemed like it might be a fair fight, it was depressing to watch so many cities and towns prostrating themselves before a tech giant in hopes they would score a windfall of jobs and infrastructure investments. Today, after a nationwide search, the entire stunt was revealed to be a kind of ruse — Amazon’s singular HQ2 turned out to be a pair of regional offices, and they would be located in two thriving metropolitan areas with strategic significance to Amazon and no dearth of high-paying jobs to start with.
...

Here’s Taylor Telford in the Washington Post:

Politicians voiced concerns that the influx of tech workers would fuel inequality and hurt lower-income populations. Others slammed the company for settling on obvious cities after a lengthy search that drew 238 bids, including many from smaller cities in need of the “transformation” Amazon promised.
While New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo implored Amazon to come to New York City, reportedly saying he’d “change his name to Amazon Cuomo if that’s what it takes”, local politicians were wary about the deal. Prior to the announcement, New York City council member Jimmy Van Bramer and state senator Michael Gianaris published a joint statement in the Yonkers Tribune criticizing the use of “scarce public resources” as “massive corporate welfare. Now, Van Bramer and Gianaris are teaming up with local activist groups to protest Amazon’s plans on Wednesday.
An ad for their protest reads in part: “Say no to the richest company in the world robbing over $1 billion from state funding for our schools, transit and housing.”

Meanwhile, Democrats in New York’s State Assembly are planning a rather delicious stunt of their own. Here’s David Sirota in Capital & Main:

Democratic Assemblyman Ron Kim announced that he will introduce legislation to slash New York’s economic development subsidies and use the money to buy up and cancel student debt — a move he said would provide a bigger boost to the state’s economy. The legislation, says Kim, would halt any Cuomo administration offer of taxpayer money to Amazon, which could reap up to $1 billion in tax incentives if it moves to Long Island City.

Which move do you think will play out better on social media — giving Amazon $1 billion in incentives, or offering New York college students $1 billion in debt relief? (Davey Alba collects many more outraged tweets from politicians and others here in BuzzFeed.)
...
There’s plenty in here to be upset about. But I’ll highlight just one thing that I think most people can agree on: the way these companies demand such strict secrecy from the public that is handing them the welfare checks. Virginia, for example, has agreed to provide Amazon with written notice of any public-record requests under the Freedom of Information Act “to allow the Company to seek a protective order or other appropriate remedy.”

This, too, is depressingly common. San Jose’s mayor and 17 other elected officials signed strict nondisclosure agreements with Google as part of an effort to bring the city a $67 million land deal. In Bloomberg today, Josh Eidelson reports that activists are now suing to make terms of the deal public:

City officials signed agreements “designed to transform public records, on such crucial issues as transit and environmental compliance, into private ones that the public does not see,” according to the filing. The “city and Google went to extraordinary lengths to keep the public in the dark.”
The agreements are invalid under San Jose’s municipal code, which restricts officials from entering into contracts without council approval, and violate state law barring agencies from letting outside parties control disclosures to the public, the plaintiffs said.

[Benny Profane]

I remember when going over the bridge from Roosevelt Island was terrifying. Now there are chic rooftop bars there?

You should see Jersey City.

[iceman]

There's a good piece by Bryce Covert on today's NY Times op-ed page, I can't find it online for some reason but his point is that everyone should hate this deal, conservatives, liberals, Dems, Reps, Libertarian, everybody but Amazon. It's crazy, the giveaways to a single company. Worse than the damn NFL and that's saying something.

[MontuckyFried]

https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/14/...public-records
Amazon’s HQ2 stunt could come back to haunt it

The backlash to its big office move was immediate — and it’s growing. There was always something distasteful about Amazon’s quest to find a home for its HQ2. Even when it seemed like it might be a fair fight, it was depressing to watch so many cities and towns prostrating themselves before a tech giant in hopes they would score a windfall of jobs and infrastructure investments. Today, after a nationwide search, the entire stunt was revealed to be a kind of ruse — Amazon’s singular HQ2 turned out to be a pair of regional offices, and they would be located in two thriving metropolitan areas with strategic significance to Amazon and no dearth of high-paying jobs to start with.

Yup. This stunt is definitely not helping it from a PR aspect. Another thing I found distasteful is that they placed them in locations that already have massively big economies rather than cities that desperately needed a shot in the arm. Think of all the places in the "Rust Belt" that could have used those jobs, infrastructure improvements, and cash influx. The construction costs in NYC and DC area have to be so astronomical compared to the depressed Midwest areas that you would think would easily negate any government subsidies NYC/VA could offer. HQ2 could have been a great thing for places like Flint or Detroit, MI. No local government pandering necessary. Why on earth does ANYBODY believe that multimillion dollar government grants needs to go a trillion dollar company? NYC gave them a $325 million cash development grant; Virginia gave them $573 million in cash grants. It's ludicrous! How ANYBODY believes this is acceptable is beyond me. I hate megacorporate cronyism with a passion. I was a victim of it recently on a much smaller scale of course. If you're a bigger company in cahoots with the guys in charge? "Awesome! Have some taxpayer money!" If you're a little guy like me? It's "Piss off, peasant. We'll squash you like the little bug you are. No competition allowed in this town."

[dunfree]

they also carved out some absurd benefits - like the VA deal requires VA to give Amazon preemptive notice of any FOIA document release so they can do PR spin.

Man can AMZN play the media though.

[Name Redacted]

Yup. This stunt is definitely not helping it from a PR aspect. Another thing I found distasteful is that they placed them in locations that already have massively big economies rather than cities that desperately needed a shot in the arm. Think of all the places in the "Rust Belt" that could have used those jobs, infrastructure improvements, and cash influx. The construction costs in NYC and DC area have to be so astronomical compared to the depressed Midwest areas that you would think would easily negate any government subsidies NYC/VA could offer. HQ2 could have been a great thing for places like Flint or Detroit, MI. No local government pandering necessary. Why on earth does ANYBODY believe that multimillion dollar government grants needs to go a trillion dollar company? NYC gave them a $325 million cash development grant; Virginia gave them $573 million in cash grants. It's ludicrous! How ANYBODY believes this is acceptable is beyond me. I hate megacorporate cronyism with a passion. I was a victim of it recently on a much smaller scale of course. If you're a bigger company in cahoots with the guys in charge? "Awesome! Have some taxpayer money!" If you're a little guy like me? It's "Piss off, peasant. We'll squash you like the little bug you are. No competition allowed in this town."

The reason you don't understand it is because you are looking at it incorrectly. These guys need to attract highly skilled tech workers and I'm sorry, but the rust belt isn't exactly at the top of a tech worker's list. Amazon isn't a charitable organization looking to turn a shithole city into a bastion of wealth. They are a business and they will use their leverage to increase profits for shareholders. That's their job, it is how they exist.

Conversely, these cities might be shelling out money to lure Amazon, but much of it will be returned in the long-term by sales and income taxes generated by the highly compensated employees. If I owned a restaurant across the street from one of the new headquarters, you can't bet your ass that I'd want the city to shell out some cash to get them there.

In my town, they prefer to give tax breaks to big box stores who will put local shops out of business. In my opinion, that's way shittier than what is going on here.

[MontuckyFried]

The reason you don't understand it is because you are looking at it incorrectly. These guys need to attract highly skilled tech workers and I'm sorry, but the rust belt isn't exactly at the top of a tech worker's list. Amazon isn't a charitable organization looking to turn a shithole city into a bastion of wealth. They are a business and they will use their leverage to increase profits for shareholders. That's their job, it is how they exist.

Conversely, these cities might be shelling out money to lure Amazon, but much of it will be returned in the long-term by sales and income taxes generated by the highly compensated employees. If I owned a restaurant across the street from one of the new headquarters, you can't bet your ass that I'd want the city to shell out some cash to get them there.

In my town, they prefer to give tax breaks to big box stores who will put local shops out of business. In my opinion, that's way shittier than what is going on here.

No. I completely understand that they're just trying to please their shareholders and that they are not a charity. I do get that. I'm talking about it from a PR point of view. Think about it. The way they've played this entire HQ2 thing has made a lot of the public look at Amazon in a more negative light than before. Whereas if they did something HUGE like help out a place like Detroit, it would make them look far more philanthropic, which turns the public opinion in their favor, which can indeed lead to higher profits as consumer like to support companies they believe are doing good things for society rather than solely seeking profits. There ARE some companies out there are excellent corporate citizens. Makes a big difference in the "optics" department, and leads to long term sustainability. Some companies get this.

[dunfree]

The reason you don't understand it is because you are looking at it incorrectly. These guys need to attract highly skilled tech workers and I'm sorry, but the rust belt isn't exactly at the top of a tech worker's list.

so why offer incentives? DC Metro and NYC were #2 and #3 in AMZN employment already. You offer incentives to get people to do something they weren't going to do, not to reward them for doing what they were going to do anyway. eesh, Google's adding space for 12k people in NYC.

[Name Redacted]

No. I completely understand that they're just trying to please their shareholders and that they are not a charity. I do get that. I'm talking about it from a PR point of view. Think about it. The way they've played this entire HQ2 thing has made a lot of the public look at Amazon in a more negative light than before. Whereas if they did something HUGE like help out a place like Detroit, it would make them look far more philanthropic, which turns the public opinion in their favor, which can indeed lead to higher profits as consumer like to support companies they believe are doing good things for society rather than solely seeking profits. There ARE some companies out there are excellent corporate citizens. Makes a big difference in the "optics" department, and leads to long term sustainability. Some companies get this.

Because no one wants to work in Detroit and the public dissatisfaction is a minor, short term negative. Having to constantly try to lure tech workers to Detroit through higher wages and benefits would cost a lot more over time. Consumers have short attention spans. They might bitch about Amazon today, but tomorrow it'll be something else and they'll be back to buying everything on Amazon again.

And the companies that you think are great corporate citizens just have a different PR strategy. At the end of the day, it is all about the shareholders.

[Name Redacted]

so why offer incentives? DC Metro and NYC were #2 and #3 in AMZN employment already. You offer incentives to get people to do something they weren't going to do, not to reward them for doing what they were going to do anyway. eesh, Google's adding space for 12k people in NYC.

Did you read the rest of the post?

[FLS]

Man can AMZN play the media though.

Couldn't be corporate mass media playing the citizens...nahhh.

[dunfree]

Did you read the rest of the post?

Again: How is offering someone money to do what they were going to do anyway a good deal for you?

edit: and "tech worker" is a useless term these days. It's just someone who works at a "tech company" which is a uselessly broad term now.

[skaredshtles]

Because no one wants to work in Detroit and the public dissatisfaction is a minor, short term negative. Having to constantly try to lure tech workers to Detroit through higher wages and benefits would cost a lot more over time.

Yup. MI sucks. And Detroit sucks even more. I can't even imagine trying to "lure" people to move there.

Except perhaps stoners now.

[FLS]

In my town, they prefer to give tax breaks to big box stores who will put local shops out of business. In my opinion, that's way shittier than what is going on here.

Umm... Maybe you could open up a restaurant near one of those big box stores.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Yup. This stunt is definitely not helping it from a PR aspect. Another thing I found distasteful is that they placed them in locations that already have massively big economies rather than cities that desperately needed a shot in the arm. Think of all the places in the "Rust Belt" that could have used those jobs, infrastructure improvements, and cash influx. The construction costs in NYC and DC area have to be so astronomical compared to the depressed Midwest areas that you would think would easily negate any government subsidies NYC/VA could offer. HQ2 could have been a great thing for places like Flint or Detroit, MI. No local government pandering necessary. Why on earth does ANYBODY believe that multimillion dollar government grants needs to go a trillion dollar company? NYC gave them a $325 million cash development grant; Virginia gave them $573 million in cash grants. It's ludicrous! How ANYBODY believes this is acceptable is beyond me. I hate megacorporate cronyism with a passion. I was a victim of it recently on a much smaller scale of course. If you're a bigger company in cahoots with the guys in charge? "Awesome! Have some taxpayer money!" If you're a little guy like me? It's "Piss off, peasant. We'll squash you like the little bug you are. No competition allowed in this town."

Do you finally understand why government regulations, especially anti-trust laws, are important?
Companies can get so big now, it's easy for them to just put the thumb on the scales.
Competition? Taxes? High wages? Customer satisfaction? A modicum of responsibility or ethics? What's that?