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10-18-2017, 07:28 PM #26Banned
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Not unlike avalanche incidences where if 4 things/ingredients are present, then one or more human stability testers become very powerless very quickly.
1) new snow/slab
2) a sliding surface/weak layer
3) a steep enough angle/about 30 degrees and steeper
4) a trigger/you and or your party.
Fortunately if you take any 1 of those^^^^^ ingredients away, you really don't have much of anything to worry about. Beacon or not.
Spring/isothermic snowpack? I'm generally not beeping, but eyes are peeled for visual hazards as much as anytime of year. Spring snowpack also marks the time of year where climbing what I intend to ski becomes a more reasonable and viable approach for safer turns on the down.
The sport of backcountry skiing is only dangerous if WE make it so. Backcountry skiing is no more dangerous than anything else that we partake in in our daily lives really, imo.
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10-18-2017, 08:53 PM #27Banned
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10-19-2017, 05:25 AM #28Banned
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Hehe
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10-19-2017, 07:38 AM #29
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10-19-2017, 11:04 AM #30
lol I can't believe Rog hasn't come over to the surf forum yet...what are you waiting for buddy, we are dying to hear about that ME slop
"In a perfect world I'd have all 10 fingers on my left hand, so I could just use my right hand for punching."
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10-19-2017, 11:09 AM #31
If for no other reason, I'm strongly inclined to believe that MrMan is rog because of how serious discussions turn to serious shit when he gets involved.
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10-19-2017, 02:09 PM #32
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10-19-2017, 05:14 PM #33Banned
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You guys should take this to the padded room. Way to take this thread off topic.
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10-19-2017, 05:45 PM #34
Rog gave me the worst BC advice ever that told me who he is. Rog is cool.
Back on topic. Going into the BC solo without a beacon seems common but under ANY conditions it is selfish. When you are dead, you are dead. You won't care. The hurt will fall on your loved ones and without a body the hurt will be worse. A beacon cant' help you survive but it will help SAR locate your body and as almost everyone here has a mom at least think of how she would feel.A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.
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10-19-2017, 05:53 PM #35Banned
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10-19-2017, 06:45 PM #36
I hate organized probe lines.
I cannot imagine doing a one man probe line for someone I cared about.Originally Posted by blurred
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10-19-2017, 09:30 PM #37Registered User
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Summit's post on the similarities and differences between a beacon and seatbelt pretty captures my thoughts. They're far from the same.
Regarding the incident in MT, it seems like some people (not calling anyone specifically out) are assuming a beacon would have saved her life. It's quite possible she died from trauma before being buried and the beacon wouldn't have mattered. If we're going to have a discussion on what went wrong in that specific incident, it seems like we should be more focused on how they could have been misled by the snow conditions rather than how they failed to do a proper beacon check. But when there is talk of the specific snow conditions, I've mostly read people implying it was obvious the slope was going to slide. That really makes me wonder, how often do you go out and get away with it? If something slid on you last season, would everyone here be saying how dumb you were to be skiing in the backcountry that day? It just seems like hindsight's 20/20, and it's easy to say something is "obvious" when you already know the outcome.
Tabke brought up an interesting and good point a while back—if you're not comfortable skiing something without avy gear, you shouldn't be skiing it at all. Maybe more of us should ski without beacons, at least occasionally so we learn to rely less on the gear. Most places I ski, the mountain and my party's actions determine the outcome—it's not really like driving where other people's decisions can kill you.
[edited out the stuff about the expert halo from last night when I was really tired]Last edited by auvgeek; 10-20-2017 at 10:18 AM.
"Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
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10-19-2017, 09:36 PM #38?
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I have a very nice set of 2 way radios.
I think this year I will AGAIN learn the channels that contact the right people in case of emergency.
It's seems such a simple thing to be able to contact others who can help in a time of emergency. mine have a 20 mile rangeOwn your fail. ~Jer~
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10-20-2017, 12:10 AM #39Hailstone, UT
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Wasn't "expert halo" also attached to Ian's Human Factors paper from so long ago that I can barely remember, Bob? recall that klaus gave me one of his original links. my 2 ç: go back to the basics. human factor issues are about dismissing / ignoring / minimizing the basics.
Ski Bumming this winter. Probably be heading your way eventually, so how did NoPin put it? He sent his kids and wife out of town when the pinners invaded his slopes!
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10-20-2017, 12:52 AM #40Hailstone, UT
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No assuming avugeek. Gets you in a world of hurt, but frequently you need an active, functioning tranceiver next to yer gut in order find someone or be found. batteries get cold, slow and weak in your pack.
Complacency quite possible when your approach is over mixed dirt / mud / snow / rock and then you've only reached the base of your climb and the "normal" starting zones are yet to be reached.
Just noticed this today, while looking to buy the latest Snowy Torrents. My gut still hurts.
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10-20-2017, 08:33 AM #41
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10-20-2017, 11:22 AM #42
My cars beep and b00p at me so much if I don't wear seatbelts, I always put on the fucking seatbelts.
Beacons don't do that, but I always wear one, even in bounds on lots of days it's tracked out.Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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10-20-2017, 11:37 AM #43
I can't not wear a seat belt bc I believe too strongly in the presence of murphy's law. It would be that one time I didn't buckle in. Or forgot my beacon
whenever I even get into a golf cart I also instinctively reach for the seatbelt. But then again my friend and I rolled one at the golf course we worked at so maybe my survival instincts are just kicking in lolskid luxury
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10-20-2017, 12:09 PM #44Registered User
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I'm going to assume the victim didn't turn on the beacon because it was early october
But this ^^ , blunt force trauma
localy some dude is asking on FB "whats a good aviy pack" sez he thinks he needs one cuz he has been in a couple aviys ... what can you say on FB to someone who has been in 2 aviys and hasnt changed his MO?
edit: which is untrue ... he is buying more hardwareLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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10-20-2017, 12:21 PM #45
Tell him to spend his money on a Level 1 class? Or buy life insurance?
Originally Posted by blurred
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10-21-2017, 11:25 AM #46Registered User
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Even if you are skiing solo you may find yourself in a position to help someone else, so that's another reason to wear one regardless, and a more persuasive one imo.
I do agree that skiing without a beacon occasionally is a good way to check your risk tolerance levels, and ask yourself if the beacon is giving you a false sense of security. Skiing by yourself is good that way as well.
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10-21-2017, 05:11 PM #47Banned
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Yup great of you to mention that.
Skiing by yourself is good that way as well.
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10-21-2017, 06:41 PM #48?
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10-21-2017, 07:22 PM #49
Yeah my wife is my main backcountry ski partner for the last 20 years. At their age we started doing this stuff. This could happen to us. Seems like maybe he was not emotionally prepared for the reality of losing his partner.
I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.
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10-21-2017, 07:30 PM #50?
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