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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    google the swiss cheese theory

    I had a perfect example of this in an accident where i was speeding/it was suddenly icy/ a snow plow pulls across the road and his wheels spin trying to get clear/ now we are getting a sweaty crotch

    but when the girl in her mom's kia came around the plow, bounced off a berm and t-boned me I was fucked


    you can make one misteak/ incidence of shit happening and get away with it, maybe even 2, but when 3 or 4 things happen at once, just let go of the wheel bend over ... and kiss your ass goodby
    Not unlike avalanche incidences where if 4 things/ingredients are present, then one or more human stability testers become very powerless very quickly.

    1) new snow/slab

    2) a sliding surface/weak layer

    3) a steep enough angle/about 30 degrees and steeper

    4) a trigger/you and or your party.

    Fortunately if you take any 1 of those^^^^^ ingredients away, you really don't have much of anything to worry about. Beacon or not.

    Spring/isothermic snowpack? I'm generally not beeping, but eyes are peeled for visual hazards as much as anytime of year. Spring snowpack also marks the time of year where climbing what I intend to ski becomes a more reasonable and viable approach for safer turns on the down.

    The sport of backcountry skiing is only dangerous if WE make it so. Backcountry skiing is no more dangerous than anything else that we partake in in our daily lives really, imo.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMan View Post
    So long as humans are human......
    you still got those tail clips?
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowing alpy View Post
    you still got those tail clips?
    Huh?

  4. #29
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    Hehe

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMan View Post
    Huh?
    fat tires, yeah or nay?
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowing alpy View Post
    fat tires, yeah or nay?
    Nay IPA

  7. #32
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    lol I can't believe Rog hasn't come over to the surf forum yet...what are you waiting for buddy, we are dying to hear about that ME slop
    "In a perfect world I'd have all 10 fingers on my left hand, so I could just use my right hand for punching."

  8. #33
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    If for no other reason, I'm strongly inclined to believe that MrMan is rog because of how serious discussions turn to serious shit when he gets involved.
    山、川、森林、砂漠、海、空

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    If for no other reason, I'm strongly inclined to believe that MrMan is rog because of how serious discussions turn to serious shit when he gets involved.
    Indeed

    File photo of Rog:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  10. #35
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    You guys should take this to the padded room. Way to take this thread off topic.

  11. #36
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    Rog gave me the worst BC advice ever that told me who he is. Rog is cool.



    Back on topic. Going into the BC solo without a beacon seems common but under ANY conditions it is selfish. When you are dead, you are dead. You won't care. The hurt will fall on your loved ones and without a body the hurt will be worse. A beacon cant' help you survive but it will help SAR locate your body and as almost everyone here has a mom at least think of how she would feel.
    thnx Capt. Chuck Shunstrom

    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    Rog gave me the worst BC advice ever that told me who he is. Rog is cool.



    Back on topic. Going into the BC solo without a beacon seems common but under ANY conditions it is selfish. When you are dead, you are dead. You won't care. The hurt will fall on your loved ones and without a body the hurt will be worse. A beacon cant' help you survive but it will help SAR locate your body and as almost everyone here has a mom at least think of how she would feel.
    Thank you, Wooley, for bringing this back on track. Totally agree about solo beacon use. Because at the end of the day at the very least, your beacon is a recovery device. Anything more, consider yourself extremely fortunate.

  13. #38
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    I hate organized probe lines.

    I cannot imagine doing a one man probe line for someone I cared about.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMan View Post
    You guys should take this to the padded room. Way to take this thread off topic.
    Pio got that covered this week.
    Let’s get back to Q&A
    glasses or goggles for chasing the dragon?
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

  15. #40
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    Summit's post on the similarities and differences between a beacon and seatbelt pretty captures my thoughts. They're far from the same.

    Regarding the incident in MT, it seems like some people (not calling anyone specifically out) are assuming a beacon would have saved her life. It's quite possible she died from trauma before being buried and the beacon wouldn't have mattered. If we're going to have a discussion on what went wrong in that specific incident, it seems like we should be more focused on how they could have been misled by the snow conditions rather than how they failed to do a proper beacon check. But when there is talk of the specific snow conditions, I've mostly read people implying it was obvious the slope was going to slide. That really makes me wonder, how often do you go out and get away with it? If something slid on you last season, would everyone here be saying how dumb you were to be skiing in the backcountry that day? It just seems like hindsight's 20/20, and it's easy to say something is "obvious" when you already know the outcome.

    Tabke brought up an interesting and good point a while back—if you're not comfortable skiing something without avy gear, you shouldn't be skiing it at all. Maybe more of us should ski without beacons, at least occasionally so we learn to rely less on the gear. Most places I ski, the mountain and my party's actions determine the outcome—it's not really like driving where other people's decisions can kill you.

    [edited out the stuff about the expert halo from last night when I was really tired]
    Last edited by auvgeek; 10-20-2017 at 11:18 AM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    meager stoke

  16. #41
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    Jul 2005
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    I have a very nice set of 2 way radios.

    I think this year I will AGAIN learn the channels that contact the right people in case of emergency.

    It's seems such a simple thing to be able to contact others who can help in a time of emergency. mine have a 20 mile range
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

  17. #42
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    May 2006
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    241
    Wasn't "expert halo" also attached to Ian's Human Factors paper from so long ago that I can barely remember, Bob? recall that klaus gave me one of his original links. my 2 ç: go back to the basics. human factor issues are about dismissing / ignoring / minimizing the basics.

    Ski Bumming this winter. Probably be heading your way eventually, so how did NoPin put it? He sent his kids and wife out of town when the pinners invaded his slopes!

  18. #43
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    May 2006
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    241
    No assuming avugeek. Gets you in a world of hurt, but frequently you need an active, functioning tranceiver next to yer gut in order find someone or be found. batteries get cold, slow and weak in your pack.

    Complacency quite possible when your approach is over mixed dirt / mud / snow / rock and then you've only reached the base of your climb and the "normal" starting zones are yet to be reached.

    Just noticed this today, while looking to buy the latest Snowy Torrents. My gut still hurts.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ermine View Post
    Wasn't "expert halo" also attached to Ian's Human Factors paper from so long ago that I can barely remember, Bob? recall that klaus gave me one of his original links. my 2 ç: go back to the basics. human factor issues are about dismissing / ignoring / minimizing the basics.

    Ski Bumming this winter. Probably be heading your way eventually, so how did NoPin put it? He sent his kids and wife out of town when the pinners invaded his slopes!
    Look who surfaced. C'mon by! I'll show some of the local bc lines, and we'll have a grand beacon check.
    山、川、森林、砂漠、海、空

  20. #45
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    Sep 2001
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    My cars beep and b00p at me so much if I don't wear seatbelts, I always put on the fucking seatbelts.

    Beacons don't do that, but I always wear one, even in bounds on lots of days it's tracked out.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>> Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  21. #46
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    tetons
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    I can't not wear a seat belt bc I believe too strongly in the presence of murphy's law. It would be that one time I didn't buckle in. Or forgot my beacon

    whenever I even get into a golf cart I also instinctively reach for the seatbelt. But then again my friend and I rolled one at the golf course we worked at so maybe my survival instincts are just kicking in lol
    skid luxury

  22. #47
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Summit's post on the similarities and differences between a beacon and seatbelt pretty captures my thoughts. They're far from the same.

    Regarding the incident in MT, it seems like some people (not calling anyone specifically out) are assuming a beacon would have saved her life. It's quite possible she died from trauma before being buried and the beacon wouldn't have mattered. If we're going to have a discussion on what went wrong in that specific incident, it seems like we should be more focused on how they could have been misled by the snow conditions rather than how they failed to do a proper beacon check. But when there is talk of the specific snow conditions, I've mostly read people implying it was obvious the slope was going to slide. That really makes me wonder, how often do you go out and get away with it? If something slid on you last season, would everyone here be saying how dumb you were to be skiing in the backcountry that day? It just seems like hindsight's 20/20, and it's easy to say something is "obvious" when you already know the outcome.

    Tabke brought up an interesting and good point a while back—if you're not comfortable skiing something without avy gear, you shouldn't be skiing it at all. Maybe more of us should ski without beacons, at least occasionally so we learn to rely less on the gear. Most places I ski, the mountain and my party's actions determine the outcome—it's not really like driving where other people's decisions can kill you.
    I'm going to assume the victim didn't turn on the beacon because it was early october

    But this ^^ , blunt force trauma

    localy some dude is asking on FB "whats a good aviy pack" sez he thinks he needs one cuz he has been in a couple aviys ... what can you say on FB to someone who has been in 2 aviys and hasnt changed his MO?

    edit: which is untrue ... he is buying more hardware
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  23. #48
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    Tell him to spend his money on a Level 1 class? Or buy life insurance?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  24. #49
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    Jan 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMan View Post
    Thank you, Wooley, for bringing this back on track. Totally agree about solo beacon use. Because at the end of the day at the very least, your beacon is a recovery device. Anything more, consider yourself extremely fortunate.
    Even if you are skiing solo you may find yourself in a position to help someone else, so that's another reason to wear one regardless, and a more persuasive one imo.

    I do agree that skiing without a beacon occasionally is a good way to check your risk tolerance levels, and ask yourself if the beacon is giving you a false sense of security. Skiing by yourself is good that way as well.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by panchosdad View Post
    Even if you are skiing solo you may find yourself in a position to help someone else, so that's another reason to wear one regardless, and a more persuasive one imo.
    Yup great of you to mention that.

    Skiing by yourself is good that way as well.
    Skiing solo is a VERY good that way. Most avy incidences and fatalities happen when folks are paired up or in groups. When you are all that you've got, you will make more conservative choices and travel about with a clearer head and raised awareness. And you can still ski great snow and terrain while at it.

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