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Thread: Asymmetrical Skis
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10-04-2017, 04:43 PM #1
Asymmetrical Skis
I’ve always stayed away from asymmetrical Skis, then, they went away on their own. Now they seem to be making a comeback.
I’ve always trashed one set of inside my does and then switched Skis and had a second life. Do people not care about this anymore?
Sent from my iPhone using TGR ForumsI rip the groomed on tele gear
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10-04-2017, 05:38 PM #2
Seems like most assymetrical skis are from boutique ski mfgs. I'm guessing their average customer doesn't ride a pair of skis until the edges are fully destroyed.
I just avoid rocks.
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10-04-2017, 05:43 PM #3
I'm still riding a pair of G3 Rapid Transits that are at least 10 years old. LOVE them on groomer days, they carve like Ginsu knives. They've got an edge compression, tons of edge dings, and a crack starting on one top sheet, but they are by far my favorite carving ski ever. I don't know if the asymmetry makes a difference, but damn can they rail turns. I'd love to see a ski with the same dimensions plus 10mm; I'd buy in a heartbeat.
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10-04-2017, 07:47 PM #4
Boutique manufacturers like K2? I hear they come from se exotic Asian location!
Seriously, seems fucking retarded. The last thing I want to do after hauling myself and my gear up to parking lot, putting it all on and clomping up to the lift is worry about which ski goes on which foot. Why bother?
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10-04-2017, 07:58 PM #5
a friend bought some asymmetric skis last season. elan i think. within 2 months i saw them for sale on facebook.
review complete?
i can understand the concept tho.
rarely are our skis weighted symmetrically, so why should our skis be symmetric.
id say it'll take 10 years of research with some sort of skis that have builtin electronic torque sensors to figure out a good design tho.
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10-04-2017, 07:59 PM #6
Moving to Oregon and then utah certainly has been easier on Skis. I challenge you to ski Montana and avoid the rocks.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR ForumsI rip the groomed on tele gear
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10-04-2017, 08:12 PM #7
Here is what Drew Tabke thinks about Asymmetrical skis in regards to his pro model from Praxis.
“Traditional ski design with symmetrical shape and an fixed-radius sidecut is based on the assumption that the ski is carving a perfect arc on a static plane, like an alpine racer might be able to do with razor-sharp edges on hard ice. But in practice, and in particular skiing off-piste, the ski is rarely carving a perfect turn. Instead, it is constantly going in and out of drifting, checking speed, carving and what is virtually an infinite combination of turn-types. Rather than only needing to put force directly downward into the ski’s edge for a carved turn like a racer, when skiing off-piste we are also experiencing lateral and torsional forces while changing between a variety of turn shapes and snow conditions.
The idea of the Quixote is to balance these changing forces according to the specifics of skiers’ body mechanics. While turning, a skier’s downhill ski is capable of greater power and control than the uphill ski. On the Quixote, the downhill ski has a longer effective length across which to distribute these higher forces. The uphill ski, meanwhile, with relatively less leverage and power, engages an edge that has shorter effective length. The result is greater equilibrium in the forces traveling between the rider and the skis on each leg, letting the rider have balanced, two-footed stance.
To explain the same concept in terms of tip/tail taper; the downhill ski (with the longer effective edge) has less tip/tail taper, which equates to more edge hold. The uphill ski (shorter effective edge) has more taper, meaning easier initiating and transitioning between turns, and fewer hang-ups when buttering or spinning of jumps.
An easy way to imagine or test the offset taper concept is to spin an on-the-ground 360 on a groomer. With a traditional ski, the downhill ski comes around easily, while the uphill ski feels cumbersome and easily hangs up at the tip and/or tail. The offset taper on the Quixote keeps the power of the downhill ski, while eliminating the hang up points on the uphill ski. Though the concept came from imaging the way we want to ride big lines in fresh snow, I think the idea can apply to skis for all ability levels.”
Plus I believe that the Quixote is the only Praxis ski that is built with ShakaCore Vibe Dampening Technology. What is that you ask?
"ShakaCore Vibe Dampening Technology: Another breakthrough revolution in the evolution of ski design: Shakacore Vibe Dampening Technology. “Only good vibes.” We guarantee the craftsmen in the factory are practicing mindfulness and deep breathing through their respirators while laying up every ski, imparting only good vibes into the ski cores, guaranteeing you a chilled-out, vibe-free ride."
Its appears obvious to me that Asymmetry plus ShakaCore is the future of skiing.
Finally, stuckathuntermtn I hear you, and thats a very legitimate concern, especially if you are a; hungover as fuck, b: trying to manage a pack of whining kids. The cool thing about Praxis is that you get could get a custom graphic, with a big L and R on the topsheet to help you in the parking lot after the epic slog from the car.
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10-04-2017, 08:27 PM #8
I skied the Elan Ripstick an asymentrical design and enjoyed over a DPS and G3 models similar waist- sold them, kept ripstick. Solid all around. The amphibio design is camber inner edge and more rockered outer edge. Bought Steeple 116 and C&D both asym from ON3P this summer if that tells you anything about how I feel. Seriously, its not a big deal to keep track of a R & L ski. If that's your barrier to entry you're missing out.
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10-04-2017, 08:36 PM #9
Asymmetrical Skis
Unlike asymmetrical designs from ON3P, Praxis, K2, etc, Elan only has asymmetrical rocker, not asymm sidecut/taper, correct?
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10-04-2017, 08:41 PM #10
I’m glad to hear the pros and cons, I’ve never tried an asymmetric ski. Keep it coming.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR ForumsI rip the groomed on tele gear
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10-04-2017, 08:43 PM #11
No taper, sidecut- i'd imagine. I'm not suggesting the designs are the same. Just both asym
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10-04-2017, 08:47 PM #12
Bear in mind I'm a directional skier for the most part
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10-04-2017, 08:58 PM #13
It seems to be a fairly singular problem to Big Sky. I mean, yeah, the Rocky Mountains is more than just a name, but I've barely nicked much skiing around western Montana.
And no, it's not really that big a deal keeping track of which is which, especially when a graphic goes across both skis and only lines up 1 way, but it's still a stupid idea to me. IDK why, but it really sticks in my craw (or whatever old fashioned expression applies).
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10-04-2017, 09:00 PM #14
I've assigned a left and right ski for over 30 years. I set a lower DIN for my left lateral release. A sticker on the right ski tip is all I need to keep track.
Secondly, with tech bindings, I observed that my Maestrale heel fittings align slightly differently with the heel pins when I swap left/right skis.
I'll leave it to better skiers than me to discuss the skiing merits of asymmetrical skis.
The first point is a strawman argument.
I don't think you should ever buy skis, because at any point in time, models 10 years in the future will be better.
Will ski designs be better in 10 years? Sure. Are people loving skis like the Quixote today? Sure again. Beats me as to how much asym. contributes to the Q's goodness, but frankly I couldn't care.
If a ski is great, do you get bent out of shape because they core material doesn't meet your expectations (assuming it's durable)?
... ThomGalibier Designcrafting technology in service of music
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10-04-2017, 09:25 PM #15
Haven't skied any but kinda think in punchy 3D snow of varying densities, breakable eggshell crusts and funky layered windslab, any assymetry in ski shape would produce an unpredictable ride. I can see some potential positives on homogenous smooth groomer snow, ice, hardpack where the theoretical benefits could manifest in skiing feel.
Any feedback from peeps skiing these things in a wide variety of backcountry snow?Master of mediocrity.
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10-04-2017, 09:28 PM #16
Ever drive a car with a limited slip differential? First time you power out of a tight corner it's a revelation.
Why can't skis be like that? It would suck if you couldn't rotate the tires though.
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10-05-2017, 04:48 AM #17
got me with the strawman point.
regarding 10 years, its a bit of an exaggeration i agree. i just dont like the current trend of producing experimental products and labeling it as a new revolutionary tried and tested technology. everyones racing to bring 'their new idea' to market first.
sure its paid off with cambered skis, carve skis, fat skis, early rise, etc. but i think the fad of full rocker and reverse carve have only hurt the progress of ski design instead.
on the other hand i especially appreciate that the ski industry is benefiting from the progress, rather than the pre 1980's design stagnation and pompous attitude.
i was not specifically referring to the quixote either, i like their idea of the offset taper.
i see a lot of weird and wacky designs. especially niche touring skis and powder only skis. some asymmetric skis i've seen even have twist to them and an asymmetric horizontal flex, so that your outside edge has a longer early rise than the inside edge.
i guess i would appreciate plain honesty in the marketing. just label it experimental, as opposed to some stupid tourists buying skis they shouldn't because of fancy advertising.
many people will appreciate being the early adopters of experimental stuff if they agree with the reasoning (including myself). and maybe even wear it as a badge; im thinking a yellow and black stripe ski design with big block lettered experimental down the middle would look cool actually.
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10-05-2017, 06:46 AM #18
This makes no sense, full rocker and reverse camber have had profoundly positive impacts on ski design for 3d snow in varying applications
Volant Spatula, Praxis Powderboards, (Reverse, Reverse)
Moment Meridian, Rossignol Sickle, Volkl Gotama, Blizzard Cochise (Full Rocker, with sidecut)
Praxis Concept (reverse sidecut underfoot)
ON3P RES Tips...to name a few incredible skis.
https://www.momentskis.com/pages/product#anchor-factory "You're the guinea pig, and this is our test lab. Design, material, and construction innovations happen here first. Join the experiment."
Appears Moments skis has done exactly that.
At what point would you say a design ceases to become an experiment and is established? All new designs go through some R&D before production (unless you are talking complete custom), for example this is the first real production year of the Quixote, but it went through like 2 years of R&D, is it still "experimental"? What are the weird wacky designs in pow and touring skis you are referring to? To 85% of the ski world anything that doesn't look like a carving ski on a chairlift is experimental.
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10-05-2017, 07:18 AM #19
I loved my G3 RTs and had a similar experience to Flyover.
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10-05-2017, 08:30 AM #20
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10-05-2017, 09:00 AM #21Registered User
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10-05-2017, 11:40 AM #22Registered User
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Just like a toddler you^^ got a 50% chance eh
given that 75mm Tele bindings are asymetrical its amazing they managed to always get them on the right feet but didn't have the brains to get some heelpieces
my neighbor kind of does the asymetrical ski thing, he keeps one edge is nicked/trashed for hitting rocks and the other side sharp depending on what he will be skiingLast edited by XXX-er; 10-05-2017 at 02:31 PM.
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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10-05-2017, 01:14 PM #23
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10-06-2017, 11:15 AM #24
This was my initial concern as well. Apparently (at least with the Quixote design) this isn't the case, but I'll know in a month or so.
Assuming there's no downside in funky snow, it would point toward the constant turn radius on each side of the ski dominating the fact that the effective edge length differs, as well as of course the resulting tip/tail taper points. Obviously, other asymmetrical designs may take a different approach than what Praxis did.
... ThomGalibier Designcrafting technology in service of music
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10-06-2017, 01:11 PM #25
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