Pick me a tech binding

[adrenalated]

I have new skis coming and need to figure out what binders to put on. I haven't had time to wade through the myriad of 30+ page threads on each binding and haven't been able to ski a lot of the newer stuff on the market.

Me: 5'9" 145lb beater. Run FKS/Solly at DIN 8-9, Dynafit Radical 1.0 at DIN 10-12

Ski: 187 Praxis Protest, veneer, MAP-C, #4 flex

Boot: Maestrale RS, RS 2.0, Zero G Pro Guide, or Hawx XTD Ultra

Use: 100% touring, will see zero inbounds days. Might see everything from sled laps to all day tours. Will be skied in primarily fresh snow, but some popular slackcountry and sled lap areas see enough traffic that some chop and icy luge runouts will be encountered.

I have used Dynafit Radical FT1.0 and Speed Radical for years. Never really had a problem with them. Tolerated but never loved the way they ski, mostly due to the lack of control in the heel (and to a lesser extent the lack of elasticity in the toe).

Weight is a concern but I am not a weight weenie. I'd like them to not be considerably heavier than my Radical FTs.

Mostly indifferent towards brakes.

Would like improved ski performance but don't need it to ski like an FKS

Cost is a factor but not the driving one.

Ease of entry is important (for sled lapping)

Absolute reliability is a must as they will be used on a week-long Fairy Meadows trip this year (throwing that in just for PNWBrit)

Options are:
-install inserts and use my existing Dynafits
-Radical 2.0
-G3 Ion
-Kingpin
-Vipec
-Tecton

Which would you chose and why?

[mntlion]

current kingpin is high on the skiability front, and seems to be holding up (first gen had some pin issues)

Its the first tech binding that I will consider skiing daily, as a real binding. Released on me when neeeded, and has stayed on when it should. DIN set normally at 9 and 9 on KP works.

[PNWbrit]

Huh?

I've really liked the Ion over radicals.

Have a new pair of kingpins that are going to replace a pair of radicals that have developed more slop than any earlier dynafit I've ever had. I think dynafit completely fucked up with that whole design.

100% touring? Ions.

[BCMtnHound]

Absolute reliability is a must as they will be used on a week-long Fairy Meadows trip this year (throwing that in just for PNWBrit)

Huh?

Too funny

[ARpowhound]

I agree w PNW. Ions for touring, less finicky than Radicals.
Kingpins if plan on resort skiing.

[Island Bay]

A tentative vote for ATK14. Feel very solid with great power transfer due to adjustable puck under heel of boot. Very light. Not nearly enough time on them to comment on durability.
Maybe look at Salomon pin binding?

[bovine]

Used Dynafits for the past 10 years without issue. Got some Ion12s last season and really like the upgrade. G3 took all the best things about the Dynafits and built upon that-fixing the things that weren't that good. Great bindings IMO.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Speed Superlite 2.0

[PNWbrit]

I agree w PNW. Ions for touring, less finicky than Radicals.
Kingpins if plan on resort skiing.

With radicals it's not really finicky. Just that the engineering of the floating heel is so poorly executed. They just wear out.. and no real gain to the design, other than the lifters.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[adrenalated]

Thanks for the input so far.

ATK14 is out due to lack of warranty support/widespread distribution in the US.
Salomon pin might end up on a UL spring setup at some point but doesn't meet the needs here.
Speed Superlite is out because I hate the rotating heel and it doesn't fit the "skis better" criteria.

For those of you on Ions, can you comment specifically on how the downhill performance is improved over Radicals?
I also don't find Radicals finicky at all so many of the small improvements in the Ion like the heel lifters, ice clearing track, etc. aren't super important to me.

[skibrd]

Kingpins, they are good in all conditions, everywhere with only a minimal weight penalty. They are the best of both worlds.

[XavierD]

2 full seasons on Ions and no plans to change

[DaveJR]

I heard the ions got improved after the initial release. .... i had to cut my brakes off cause they kept popping open at the worst times. Ski great.

I’ve gone away from dynafit bindings in the way of new purchases. Broke 5 heal pieces in one season and got away with no broken body parts.



..my ions are on a set of wootest 1.0 and ive never thought they were lacking in icy conditions or chop. Feel more solid than dynafits.

[Lindahl]

If you want something that skis better, both the Vipec and Kingpin (best) do that. In my experience, the Vipec releases in ways the Kingpin and other tech bindings don't, so that's my pick for soft snow (ie Protest).

Tectons look promising, but reliability is unproven.

Ions are solid and super functional, but they don't ski as well imo - on par with the Radicals.

[galibier_numero_un]

I'm with Lindahl on Vipec for toe release in soft snow. If you want to defer drilling holes in your Protests, my 182 GPOs are available and mounted for 297 BSL with Vipecs at -1.75 (but you knew that).

I also agree on the quality of the Ions. They improve on the basic tech concept nicely - especially the stiffer toe springs. I don't ski as hard as many on this forum, so I can't comment on the lesser heel stability of traditional, rotating heel tech bindings.

As far as the Tectons are concerned, I'm waiting on the early returns from this season's "retail beta testers" ;-)

... Thom

[sf]

Thanks for the input so far.

ATK14 is out due to lack of warranty support/widespread distribution in the US.
Salomon pin might end up on a UL spring setup at some point but doesn't meet the needs here.
Speed Superlite is out because I hate the rotating heel and it doesn't fit the "skis better" criteria.

For those of you on Ions, can you comment specifically on how the downhill performance is improved over Radicals?
I also don't find Radicals finicky at all so many of the small improvements in the Ion like the heel lifters, ice clearing track, etc. aren't super important to me.

Can only compare Ions to Vertikal, FT12, but the most important difference is a bit less ramp angle. For me that's really noticeable and I would even consider shims to have even less.

Ease of use is pretty much the same. Some issues with first gen Ions, but nothing I've really cared about. I don't love the Ion crampons though

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[ClarkleberryFinn]

If you're skiing Protests, you presumably want to slide/smear/slash that tail out at every opportunity and drift sideways lots.

Which means you want the Kingpin with the proper heel connection rather than floating pins that move too freely in out when you work the tail.

[ARpowhound]

For those of you on Ions, can you comment specifically on how the downhill performance is improved over Radicals?
I also don't find Radicals finicky at all so many of the small improvements in the Ion like the heel lifters, ice clearing track, etc. aren't super important to me.

Ions have forward pressure in the heel, helps keep boot in when ski flexes, less "walk out" releases. Easier to clean out the toe from ice/snow. Seems, IMO, easier to line up toe & get snapped in than Radical.
What I meant about "finicky" w the Radical, I am talking about the rotating toe of the Radical 2.0. It can take more time to get toe snapped in to ski if you have to reach down & rotate back to center, not a major issue, but something to think about.

[mall walker]

Anecdotally my wife has a pair of the first-gen Ions with the same brake-releasing-during-touring thing and it is super annoying. But that apparently has been fixed (all of these bindings seem to have problems 1st gen) and the toes are really awesome, much cleaner and easier to get into than my Radicals. One nice thing about the Ion heel is that you can rotate it in either direction, it's symmetrical in that sense. Which is maybe less of a meaningful feature and more of a pleasing design aesthetic I suppose, but it's kinda neat.

Curious what you mean about the rotating heel on the superlites, seems like a number of the bindings you list have some sort of rotating heel? Of the bindings you listed, if it were me I'd go Ion LT (better toe than speed radicals and I don't care for brakes) but I'm a weight weenie so ymmv

[zion zig zag]

Of the bindings you listed, if it were me I'd go Ion LT (better toe than speed radicals and I don't care for brakes) but I'm a weight weenie so ymmv

So being a weight weenie myself, I'm curious why the Ion lt's over the speed turn 2.0's which are about 200 grams lighter? I've always used the speed turns/comfort with no problems at all but wondering what benefit the Ion's are for the extra weight and money. I'm getting ready to mount up some V-werks Katana's and was leaning towards the ATK Raider 12 but the lack of dealers/support in NA has me second guessing that.

[mall walker]

So being a weight weenie myself, I'm curious why the Ion lt's over the speed turn 2.0's which are about 200 grams lighter? I've always used the speed turns/comfort with no problems at all but wondering what benefit the Ion's are for the extra weight and money. I'm getting ready to mount up some V-werks Katana's and was leaning towards the ATK Raider 12 but the lack of dealers/support in NA has me second guessing that.

Oh, I was picking from the ones he listed. If I were just choosing from the field I'd go ATK or Trab. My last bindings were 115g Ski Trab Gara Titans, and they are awesome, with every feature I want and none that I do not need. Personally I wouldn't probably buy a heavier touring-only binding than the Kreuzspitze GT (~175g w/added risers) in the foreseeable future. Edit: I think SFB is on the Raiders, and iirc loves them (?)

ATK has limited support here but a number of companies sell their rebranded bindings and may (?) provide support: (edit: I guess Sportiva only sells Trab now), Hagan, Movement, etc

[adrenalated]

If you want something that skis better, both the Vipec and Kingpin (best) do that. In my experience, the Vipec releases in ways the Kingpin and other tech bindings don't, so that's my pick for soft snow (ie Protest).

Tectons look promising, but reliability is unproven.

Ions are solid and super functional, but they don't ski as well imo - on par with the Radicals.

Good info, thanks. I am really interested in the Tecton as it sure looks like it combines the best features of the Kingpin and the Vipec, at a noticeably lower weight than the Kingpin, but am definitely nervous of being the early adopter.

Does anyone know for sure if the hole patterns are the same between Tecton and Vipec? I know that's what the marketing dweebs were saying last spring, but Wild Snow claims their test bindings had a different heel pattern, so....

Can only compare Ions to Vertikal, FT12, but the most important difference is a bit less ramp angle. For me that's really noticeable and I would even consider shims to have even less.

Good feedback, thanks. For some reason I'm fairly sensitive to most everything else about my ski setup (mount point, canting/cuff alignment, forward pressure, etc) but for whatever reason I don't notice ramp angle much. I know this makes no sense.

If you're skiing Protests, you presumably want to slide/smear/slash that tail out at every opportunity and drift sideways lots.

Which means you want the Kingpin with the proper heel connection rather than floating pins that move too freely in out when you work the tail.

This is a good point, although I don't have much issue slashing the tails on my GPOs using Radicals. Where I notice the floating heel the most is in choppy or variable snow.

Curious what you mean about the rotating heel on the superlites, seems like a number of the bindings you list have some sort of rotating heel?

I was getting my bindings confused, I was thinking of the Speed Turn, where you have to rotate the heel for different riser positions. Speed Superlite is eliminated because of no flat mode and not skiing better than the Radical.

[Danno]

The red ones, LDO.

[cravenmorhead]

I don't have a specific recommendation based on your specs, but I would echo your fear of being an early adopter. Seems like it's hard to find a tech binding out there that didn't have some sort of issue with its first generation.

[auvgeek]

This is a tough one. The Kingpin works well for sled-necking and as a travel ski where you'd want to be able to tour and ski light lift-served on it. The thing is, it's pretty heavy. There's also concern over the flimsy plastic worm drive holding the heel on—seems very easy to shear off. The problem with the Vipec is the lack of true lock out on the toe, which matters for YFYD terrain but not so much for pow-touring.

I did a hut trip on Kingpins this past year and honestly wished the skis had been mounted with a lighter binding. I had enough trouble keeping up on the uphill and I don't think they ski *that* much better than a normal tech binder, particularly in pow. If you're one of the more fit people in your group, then I'm sure it will work just fine. Otherwise, I think you'd be happier on a lighter binder. EDIT: The Kingpin brakes are also terrible and sometimes won't stay up, which is a huge pain/waste of time.

If I had to do it again, I'd put a Kingpin/Tecton on a skinny RX for a travel/sled/etc ski and a SSL 2.0 on Zero G 108 for a pure touring.