Japan Newbie Touring Set-up Thoughts

[trex_9]

Thanks again for all the thoughtful replies!

I'm leaning towards a kingpins/maestrale RS set up and only bringing my 193 Gunsmokes. I'll be demoing some other touring boots before I go but I've tried Scarpa's before and know they fit my feet well.

I have ZipFit liners in my daily boots Head Vector 120's. Do you think I can simply put those liners into some new Scarpas, break them in and be good to go?

-Ryan

[XXX-er]

no idea never had zipfits

but the RS come with a touring liner made by Intuition

so why not just go with the stock shell & liner ?

I think the RS is a hell of a deal but they don't fit my feet

[Boof Head]

After a slow start into mid-January, last season was exactly typical for Hakuba. Quite a normal season. The year before was very poor.

Last year as opposed to last season.
Checked my photos and 2015/2016 was the shocker for Hakuba. I did 2 weeks in Jan at Niseko; late snow with lots of sasa grass coming through but puking when I got there.
Hakuba for last 2 weeks of Feb; lots of cover but minimal fresh , experienced ice for the first time in Japan. After 4 trips, I actually gave the edges of my skis a touch up.

[neck beard]

Yes, 15/16 was a terrible season in Hakuba and all of Nagano (Myoko, Nozawa etc). Mind you, the first 2 weeks of Jan in 2017 were looking even worse. For a short while it was looking grim. But then it turned around very fast.

[Island Bay]

Yes, 15/16 was a terrible season in Hakuba and all of Nagano (Myoko, Nozawa etc). Mind you, the first 2 weeks of Jan in 2017 were looking even worse. For a short while it was looking grim. But then it turned around very fast.

Your terrible is my pretty damn good :-) Skied powder every day, all day, during my 17 days in Hakuba in Jan-Feb 2016. It was admittedly very bushy in places during the first week.

[Shredly von Whiplash]

i have read this whole thread several times and a whole bunch of others.....a couple comments in here stand out - one guy says "doesnt look like a lot of touring, maybe just get some trekkers" I find that an interesting option especially given that somebody tried to improve the design ....daymakers. I almost convinced myself to go this way. one ski, one boot, skins...maybe even kicker skin or at least lightest possible....i think there is a chance they only get used once or twice and i like the idea of carrying something that works crappily 100% of the time....but the daymakers are heavy and below seems better and not a lot more expensive if u dont already have bindings lying around.

The other comment is CAST...I have now almost convinced myself to go that way. cast on the bc's and also on a pair of super 7's. I am guilty of thread drift I know but heck I wonder if any feedback on either option for occasional sidecountry jaunts. toe pieces in pack all the time with some superlight crappy skins sounds like a good idea. Im not normally a park the car head up guy i am more a lets head over there or extend the scope of tours in the alps skier. from lifts or heli.

Anyway i will report back on the Cast system if i go that way which i think i will as of this second right now.

[trex_9]

Im a look/fks fan boy and have them on every pair of skis i own plus a few pairs hoarding in the closet. So the CAST system is certainly intriguing.. that said, i really dont have enough touring experience on different types of bindings to tell ya that kingpins, vipecs, dynafits wont do it for me and i need something more beefy for the way down. On the surface it makes sense and i would say yes, i ski hard and love the feel of stomping into a p18 so bring on the CAST system, but i think its overkill for a first dedicated touring setup. Not sure how well that rationale holds up, but interested in your thoughts on CAST as an option here..i also dont want to be "that guy" on top fiddling with his toe pieces and such if i dont have the transitions comfortably dialed in when touring in a group setting..

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[Any]

i have read this whole thread several times and a whole bunch of others.....a couple comments in here stand out - one guy says "doesnt look like a lot of touring, maybe just get some trekkers" I find that an interesting option especially given that somebody tried to improve the design ....daymakers. I almost convinced myself to go this way. one ski, one boot, skins...maybe even kicker skin or at least lightest possible....i think there is a chance they only get used once or twice and i like the idea of carrying something that works crappily 100% of the time....but the daymakers are heavy and below seems better and not a lot more expensive if u dont already have bindings lying around.

The other comment is CAST...I have now almost convinced myself to go that way. cast on the bc's and also on a pair of super 7's. I am guilty of thread drift I know but heck I wonder if any feedback on either option for occasional sidecountry jaunts. toe pieces in pack all the time with some superlight crappy skins sounds like a good idea. Im not normally a park the car head up guy i am more a lets head over there or extend the scope of tours in the alps skier. from lifts or heli.

Anyway i will report back on the Cast system if i go that way which i think i will as of this second right now.

I agree that its a bit overkill for your first setup.

CAST seems like a pretty good idea if you're in the process of replacing your whole kit.
Otherwise (from my understanding) you'd have to replace/modify your boots, remount your skis which means you cant be at your fav mount point anymore, and buy a second pair of bindings for the toe for the uphill bit. Doesn't sound like an ideal exercise for only 1-2 days on skins.

Ive used trekkers before, many years ago. Haven't used Daymakers, but they seem ultimately the same, just newer/betterer.
Their weight wasn't the concern really. The Alpine Trekkers look to be 594 grams, Daymakers 690grams. Which is roughly the same as the difference in weight between a medium/lightweight ski binding vs a chunky full frame binding (eg duke). The problem with the Trekkers was the height up off the ski. Getting used to them was a bit funny at first, I was wobbly, and even fell over once in the carpark. But they were fine after about the first 100 meters cause you get used to them.
I've used frame bindings quite a bit and did find their height off the ski to be noticeable on the up too. But the extra weight or height felt perfectly fine on the way down.
I see many tourists with full frame setups, that dont even know what skins are. Dragging that extra weight around the whole time because someone on a forum or in a rental shop convinced them they'd want to backcountry some day. While Trekkers/Daymakers may be seen as uncool, at least on that day you're using them you're already way cooler than those suckers skiing inbounds.

Ive recently converted to kingpins, but only a quick play so far so I cant give feedback either.

But if you can get some daymakers easily/cheaply then it sounds like a great first step.

Not sure about kicker skins, never tried them. Even with full climbing skins I've had grip issues on some tracks, I blame the wildly fluctuating temperatures. Plus I don't think I could trust a short kicker skin on the sorts of garbage inconsistent skin tracks that I set.

TIP- carry a toothbrush in your pack. Many times ive lent my toothbrush to people stuck at the top trying to get their bindings to behave.

[XXX-er]

If you actually needed CAST

you would already know it

[skibrd]

If you actually needed CAST

you would already know it

That's a stupid statement that can be twisted around 9 different ways. If he/they actually needs a tech binding, they would know. If they actually needed a blah blah blah, they would know.


If you wanted one ski for a trip, CAST is a great option. If I was going to Japan and was planning on inbounds and touring days, I'd take my 193 Shiros, P18s with WTF AFD plates, CAST, and Lange XT Freetours. It's only 50 grams heavier per ski up hill then with Kingpins and comes with a lot of peace of mind.

On the uphill CAST 2.0 is with in 50 grams of Kingpin 13s on your feet, and way lighter then any frame binding. You are carrying the toes in your pack on the uphill, but you get the comfort of skiing on bindings actually certified to be skied down hill. Yep, I said it, tech toe bindings (all of them including Kingpins) do not conform to the standard that an alpine binding does for skiing downhill.

The whole 'fiddling around' aspect is over blown by the euro skinning ultralight crew that doesn't take their skis off to get their skins off. If doesn't matter if I'm touring with CAST 1.0, or on my Kingpins, by the time everyone gets a drink, has a safety meeting, gets converted, I'm ready to go when they are. If that's more your touring game, CAST is fine and would be an awesome choice for Japan.

What XXX-er means is the mindset of the CAST system by some of the public is you carry extra weight uphill and get to rage down at mach 1,000,000, and 99.9% of us don't go that fast down hill. The real question is, do you get to ski how you want down hill and do you want to ski a binding that's actually certified to be skied down hill, unlike all the tech toe bindings out there. If you want to go with one set up to Japan, CAST would be an excellent choice. It's what I'd take.



Btw, I am bias, I am friends with the boys and drink the cool-aid hard. I do have Kingpins for long days, but that's ski mountaineering, and ski mountaineering is not powder touring. If you were going ski mountaineering, you would know it and want something totally different. CAST will work great.

[Bruce Springskiin]

Another vote for Cast. I’ve used it for a quiver of one on ski trips. Especially if you are going to biased with going down, over up. If I was going to be touring only, I would take a designated touring setup. 2000-3000 days are attainable, more or less depending on fitness.

[XXX-er]

Dont get me wrong i think CAST is a great niche product but does anybody really buy it for their 1st touring setup ?

I mean we got folks basicaly saying yeah I don't know shit about this skiing up hill stuff but I'm gona go with CAST ...' not the normal CAST thread

[skibrd]

Dont get me wrong i think CAST is a great niche product but does anybody really buy it for their 1st touring setup ?

I mean we got folks basicaly saying yeah I don't know shit about this skiing up hill stuff but I'm gona go with CAST ...' not the normal CAST thread

Yeah, I did. It let me get out touring when I had only two pairs of skis and one pair of boots. No need to drill more holes, no need to get new boots, no need to drop $400-600 on another pair of skis, no need to drop $500 on a pair of touring bindings, no need to drop $600-1000 on touring boots. It is exactly the answer for people who have 1-2 pairs of skis and want to try touring with out the cost and risk of skiing pin bindings.

[thecazdog]

Go with CAST - I love knowing there's folks with 10kg plus touring setups. More terrain for me.

[Shredly von Whiplash]

i brought up cast - and it aint my first rodeo fella

[trex_9]

Good thoughts all..

What is the total cost of a CAST system if i already have a set of p18's and touring boots?

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[Bruce Springskiin]

$350 for the new Freetour. And the previous Si&I comes up used for $200-$250 on here from time to time.

And cazdog, Cast has its place in one ski quivers, one ski trips, or Downhill focused setups with the option to go up when needed. I use mine primarily on my resort ski, where I am getting into slack country a lot. I may never need it, but it gives me peace of mind knowing I can switch over to climb should my ski partner get hurt or slid above me.

[trex_9]

Does that include dynafit toe pieces?

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[XXX-er]

Go with CAST - I love knowing there's folks with 10kg plus touring setups. More terrain for me.

This

[Bruce Springskiin]

Does that include dynafit toe pieces?

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It should, and the new freetour includes their toe piece

[Reformed]

Poll time. I'm headed to Hokkaido in early February. We'll be based in Niseko for a week and then Asahi-Dake for another week. We'll have a van in both places and will be willing to go looking for good snow/interesting alpine objectives if conditions warrant. I want to take one set-up and one pair of boots. My options are 184 Steeple 108 with Tectons or 190 Bibby Pro with Tectons. I have lots of days on the Bibby and like how it skies most conditions. The Steeple is new this year and has impressed me so far, but I haven't skied it in a wide enough range of conditions to really know it yet. My concerns are hauling the Bibby around on longer alpine days (if they materialize) and maybe being a little under-gunned on the Steeple if we get some typical Japow (don't know for sure that the Steeple gives up much to the Bibby, but my initial feelings are that it floats slightly less and is slightly less loose/surfy). I've read the thread and would take a Protest if I had one, but I don't, so I'm looking for thoughts from the collective. Bibby or Steeple?

[skibrd]

Poll time. I'm headed to Hokkaido in early February. We'll be based in Niseko for a week and then Asahi-Dake for another week. We'll have a van in both places and will be willing to go looking for good snow/interesting alpine objectives if conditions warrant. I want to take one set-up and one pair of boots. My options are 184 Steeple 108 with Tectons or 190 Bibby Pro with Tectons. I have lots of days on the Bibby and like how it skies most conditions. The Steeple is new this year and has impressed me so far, but I haven't skied it in a wide enough range of conditions to really know it yet. My concerns are hauling the Bibby around on longer alpine days (if they materialize) and maybe being a little under-gunned on the Steeple if we get some typical Japow (don't know for sure that the Steeple gives up much to the Bibby, but my initial feelings are that it floats slightly less and is slightly less loose/surfy). I've read the thread and would take a Protest if I had one, but I don't, so I'm looking for thoughts from the collective. Bibby or Steeple?

Find a pair of Protests, or Shiros, or fat rockered DPS Spoons, or just take the Bibbys... what length Protests would you want?

[Reformed]

^I'd think 192, but that's a guess based on height and weight (6 feet ~185 or so). Never even seen a pair, so don't know. Don't see them used too frequently either.

[LeoK]

DPS Spoons

Finally somebody on the same page: looking forward to try the Spoons in Japan! I would definitely go for the wider skis but we don't really plan to do alpinism more like hiking for the powder... I hope it will be soft.

-> my vote for the Bibby as I can not vote spoons.

[dFiddler]

In a Japanese conundrum as well. Seriously debating if I want to pack 2 skis and 2 boots for 9 days on Honshu, or Hokkaido if the snow is shit. I would say 70% sidecountry/touring, 30% resort. Alpine options: 183cm Corvus or 188cm Anima. Touring options: 185cm Navis Freebird w/ G3 Ion 12’s or 182cm Dynafit Hokkaido w/ TBD. Xpro 130 and Mtn Lab boots. Might consider selling the Hokkaido for another option, have access to Crows, Blizzard, Volkl, Faction, Salomon and Nordica for cheap.


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