Southern BC interior 2017/2018

[DanoT]

Silver star prices continue to rise, as does vail north. I Suspect Big White is the minority with a price freeze. There is demand for the product they offer and there is zero competition. No one gives a fuck about the bros.

Don't Big White and Silver Star compete for local skiers and BW, SS, and Sun Peaks compete for ski weekers. Revy and Kicking Horse compete for Bro ski weekers as does Red and Whitewater. So where is the "zero competition" that you mentioned?

[el hefe]

Boy falls 16ft off chair at big white, lands on road and then returns to hill later that day.

https://www.castanet.net/edition/new...-1-.htm#221814

Wish I still had bones of rubber. Broke my ankle last week, done for season.

[cmcrawfo]

Don't Big White and Silver Star compete for local skiers and BW, SS, and Sun Peaks compete for ski weekers. Revy and Kicking Horse compete for Bro ski weekers as does Red and Whitewater. So where is the "zero competition" that you mentioned?

There is not a single person in Vernon who is driving to Big white or sun peaks to go skiing because of a difference in pricing.

And by 'bro' ski weekender, you mean Albertans and seasonal transplants.... so sure. But locals? Not a chance.

[cmcrawfo]

If there was competition in the market prices would be lower. It's basic economics.

[cmcrawfo]

Boy falls 16ft off chair at big white, lands on road and then returns to hill later that day.

https://www.castanet.net/edition/new...-1-.htm#221814

Wish I still had bones of rubber. Broke my ankle last week, done for season.

Doesn't look that bad.

[dufferdan]

Don't Big White and Silver Star compete for local skiers and BW, SS, and Sun Peaks compete for ski weekers. Revy and Kicking Horse compete for Bro ski weekers as does Red and Whitewater. So where is the "zero competition" that you mentioned?

I am not an expert marketer of ski resorts, but I don’t think any ski resort feels “wealthy” and charging what they want. Most resorts have a good idea what they can charge for a season pass. I usually buy the early bird as I can ski it out in 8 days. Families with kids in programs are good for the “family pass”. But annual pass holders and Family pass holders, and the young broke ski bum pass holders don’t pay resorts much beyond the dues to ski. Pack their own food, might not buy a beer after skiing, unless they don’t have to drive far. And if they are doing it right, they are getting a lot of days on that pass, so revenue per visit is low.

Day passes and holiday week passes and weekends are where the money comes in, which takes infrastructure ( on hill accommodations, restaurants, etc, which = investment= risk). Margins on food are slim, alcohol is much better. As a resort/restaurant/ bar owner, you want people drinking. Skiing is close to an alcohol delivery system for resorts.

As a weekender, long weekend, holiday skier at Pano, I get 20-30 days a year and buying the early bird deal it costs me 20-$30 a day. That is a bargain in my mind. If prices are going up 8% per year, it isn’t because there isn’t competition, I am surmising it is because costs aren’t getting covered. The ski resort biz is not a huge money maker, except for a very few places. High capital costs, and heavy weather related risk.

In 2009,Kicking Horse laid off almost 50% of permanent staff ( my brother was a victim). The reason they haven’t added another $10MM ski lift? They know they need one. There isn’t the traffic. My uncle owns a mid- mountain lot at Revelstoke that can be used for a 50 bed unit condo/ hotel. Why isn’t he building a $15MM building? Not enough paying traffic as it is a very remote location with a lot of potential risks to travel.

Skiing isn’t a right, it’s a privilege. Ya gots to pay to play. That can either be climbing for turns in the backcountry or paying for a ticket. Resort owners have a high capital cost business with significant uncontrolled risks out of their control.

Sorry to ramble on, but another thought. Many ski resort operators are passionate about the sport and the experience for customers. Less so for the corporate owners of the world, like former Intrawest, which was more a real estate development company. Once the real estate at most of its resorts was built out, is started to go bankrupt. Charlie Locke, who owned Lake Louise, then expanded to owning Fernie, Kimberly, Fairmont, and a couple resorts in Quebec, was a ski resort operator. His mistake was not realizing the value of a well planned real estate development like Whistler/Blackcomb. Lake Louise had the benefit of a massive tourist draw in Banff/ Lake Louise. The real estate offering at Revelstoke in the mid-2000’s failed miserably. $400,000 Plus for a lot in a location on the other side of one of the nastiest winter drives in the country from a major population centre doomed it. And it has never recovered. ( I compare Revelstoke to a Telluride. Remote, great terrain, awesome town and vibe. Telluride barely survives, but it has the benefit of a lot of wealthy owners...Tom Cruise, Opra, among a slew of others who love the remoteness, peace, and can access with a private jet. Revelstoke can take a Dash STOL aircraft, but not much more. So Telluride barely hangs on, Revy....we will see).

Panorama is owned by a group of individuals. I know several of them. They are passionate. Many are brilliant business minds. And most have deep pockets to execute on plans. But they are in it because they love the location, the experience of being there, and creating something others can enjoy. One owner, several years ago, skied a run called Stumbocks. Back in the day, it was 20’ wide and a massive bump run old men like me would ruin their backs on. This owner saw a great potential cruising run. He paid out of his pocket to have it widened and now when groomed, it is an awesome cruising run. The owners have also committed to their glading program. The resort doesn’t make enough to do the new lifts and development on cash flow. A lot of it is owners commit to build it, build the asset first, and hopefully they will come.







Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[snoboy]

Red has had a freeze for the last 2 years, I think.

[DanoT]

If there was competition in the market prices would be lower. It's basic economics.

The prices for lift tickets are lower in B.C., not including Whistler, than most other places in North America and there certainly is competition for out of town ski week vacationers. Pass prices are low enough that lots of out of town skiers buy passes if they are planning more than one trip or one long trip.

One of the things that contribute to higher prices is the skiing public's infatuation with high speed lifts, tons of grooming and other resort infrastructure and other amenities.

[cmcrawfo]

The prices for lift tickets are lower in B.C., not including Whistler, than most other places in North America and there certainly is competition for out of town ski week vacationers. Pass prices are low enough that lots of out of town skiers buy passes if they are planning more than one trip or one long trip.

Well then, we probably should complain about pricing, eh?

[liv2ski]

Guys, so I have to ask. I have family in Kelowna and we are thinking of moving to BC in 2020, but where? I have always been a resort jong, but will want to get a snow mobile for some meadow skipping that is easily accessible. As far as resort skiing, I hear they call it Big White Out, which isn't my cup of tea. Is it any sunnier up at Sun Peaks? Moving up from California, my wife needs sun, even if it is cold, so where should I be looking? O and for sure she needs at least a small town with character to goof of in, nothing to remote or blase. Thanks for your thoughts.

[cmcrawfo]

Really depends on what other kind of lifestyle things you are looking for... assuming securing gainful employment isn't an issue. If you are looking for a summer/lake/boat scene Penticton (apex mt) Kelowna (big white) Vernon (silver star) would be top contenders. In the winter, it can pretty overcast in the valleys everywhere. Penticton, on low snow years has been known to have a 10 month long MTB season. All the resorts get decent sunshine... this year would be the exception with significantly greater snowfall, came more cloudy days.

As far as touring goes, if you have a sled things are good pretty much everywhere (although I would assume there is less opportunity around penticton..just a guess, never bothered to drive that far to figure it out). If you don't have a sled and ski touring is important to you expect to drive and have limited options if you are in Kelowna, Vernon, or Kamloops.

Not sure if places like Rosland, Nelson or Revelstoke are contenders, due to the size of the community. Kelowna is real town, Vernon is pretty small (but close to Kelowna) . Kamloops (Sunpeaks) is a bit more industrial.

[BCMtnHound]

Kelowna, Vernon, and Kamloops all have their nuanced pros and cons. Best you and the lady come up and spend some time over the next couple winters and check each out. I suspect if you don't mind a 30min commute to the city centres, Lake Country area between Vernon and Kelowna would suit you and your wife best.

[meggers]

Being a California transplant myself, I found Kelowna winters to be quite grey at first. After getting cross country skis and good winter running spikes, it's become no worse than my winters in the Sierra. If you're from the bay area Kelowna is going to seem super white and uncultured, though.

But besides that, Kelowna is by far my favorite place I lived. There are so many outdoor things to do, and for having a small downtown, there is descent food and live music. The biking and summer activities are superior to the skiing, but the resorts are good enough for me. Just don't expect the rocky terrain or snow quantity of the Sierra, unless you go to Revy. A sled is definitely on my list to make winters a little more fun.

[cmcrawfo]

Kelowna is going to seem super white and uncultured.

Ha! That's a pretty fair statement for most of the interior.

[Kulharin]

I grew up in Kelowna. I like visiting occasionally but I'd never want to live there ever again... The Okanagan sure but the central Okanagan valley highway and Kelowna in the middle is pretty much a parking lot now... Their answer to every problem is a golf course, winery and more sprawling development up every adjacent hillside... and it's a pretty douchey/shallow vibe. Winters are fun with good skiing but you're commuting to the mountains a fair distance; Big White gets the most snow but also the most wind and fog. Summers are nice but busy. The shoulder seasons are pretty dull but there is mountain biking, climbing and hiking..

[LeeLau]

Penticton area touring is mostly a lot of slackcountry off Apex. In a good year sure its alright. In a poor year Scrapex

[sparkletarte.]

The koots might be too remote for her. 4+ hour drive to kelowna, the nearest city (in bc, i.m closer to spokane at 2.5 hrs). Nelson is the main hub at 10,000 people. The valleys can feel kinda tight especially if she doesn.t go into the alpine, altho they feel cozy too. Lots of small towns with character, lots of goofing off. Seasons are long. I love it tho this winter is going on and on...

Kelowna is considers itself the cool california city of canada. Lots of big box stores, traffic, beaches (not for dogs), warm water (lots of boats), hot summer nights, lowered cars, steroids, bleached blondes, cookie cutter housing developments. Bring money, houses are expensive and rentals are super tight. Excellent growing season for gardeners

Every time i go there in the summer (my fam is there, i lived there in the 90's) i get why people live there. I would live in between knox mountain and the hospital- close to the lake, close to springfield rd to avoid hwy, oldest homes, and flat for easy bike commutes. And you can flip your place in two years to build a fourplex for double what you paid.

[DanoT]

liv2ski should consider moving to Vernon (pop:40k), is 20minutes from Silver Star, 30 minutes from Kelowna (pop:190k) and closer to Revy than Kamloops or Kelowna.

Also Vernon is 1.5 hours from Kamloops.

Access from Vernon to the Kelowna International Airport (north of Kelowna) does not require driving through Kelowna to get there.

[el hefe]

liv2ski should consider moving to Vernon (pop:40k), is 20minutes from Silver Star, 30 minutes from Kelowna (pop:190k) and closer to Revy than Kamloops or Kelowna.

Also Vernon is 1.5 hours from Kamloops.

Access from Vernon to the Kelowna International Airport (north of Kelowna) does not require driving through Kelowna to get there.

Takes less time from airport to vernon then many places within the city of kelowna. North OK population is now almost 85,000 (vernon, coldstream, armstrong etc..)

If you think you will end up owning a sled Vernon is a pretty rad place to be with easy access to some of the best terrain and snow around. Summers rule as well, not much shoulder season between spring skiing into mtn biking and lake stuff. Same for fall but in reverse.

Kelowna is nice to go out for dinner or shopping but I am glad I live in the "sticks" compared to k town.

[cmcrawfo]

el hefe would also appreciate the realestate commission. For his % he would probably take you touring after.

[kootenayskier]

Snowed hard all day yesterday at Red, filling in faster than it was getting skied by a small crowd, boot deep by the bell. With the best coverage in 20 years, it’s hard to believe they’ll be closing in a week.

[liv2ski]

Thanks for the responses to my question. Looks like we need to visit Vernon when up there this summer.

[LeeLau]

Thanks for the responses to my question. Looks like we need to visit Vernon when up there this summer.

Vernon also has excellent biking and trails. Schools are getting better I am told

[DanoT]

Snowed hard all day yesterday at Red, filling in faster than it was getting skied by a small crowd, boot deep by the bell. With the best coverage in 20 years, it’s hard to believe they’ll be closing in a week.

Actually it is easy to believe that Red and other mountains in the B.C. interior are shutting down soon and kootenayskier, you just told us why: "best coverage in 20 years", "getting skied by a small crowd" and it is a Saturday. It doesn't matter how good the skiing is, it is Spring so people stop skiing and do other things.

[SteveUrkel]

I grew up in Nelson, lived in Arizona and California, so I know sunshine. Currently live in Kelowna. Statistically Kelowna gets 20% of LA's sun in January, 80% in August. It's really dark in the winter here. You'll appreciate taking vacations to sunny destinations.

When I first moved to Kelowna there was a strong jersey shore, d-bag vibe and the city was rundown. Thankfully those people have grown old and out of it and the vibe is much more urban hipster now. Craft beer, cruiser bikes and vintage fixes are on trend. Traffic is a joke from a big city perspective, horrible if you use to rural. You can get from one side of town to the other in 20 minutes. Rush hour can be painful at times, but most bottlenecks can be avoided via side streets. Don't recommend trying to commute across the bridge everyday. I do avoid the highway for the most part. I commute to Vernon 3-4 days per week; It's 40-45min. The city's growth is now focused on "up not out" with multiple 20+ story developments currently rushing to be first to market. The downtown has see significant redevelopment and if you like coffee shops, boutique shops, and yoga studios you'll have your pick. The food scene is focused on fresh, local, organic. Smaller portions, but quality food. It's very pedestrian friendly.

The people are active, lots of runners and cyclists. They aren't very warm and inviting generally avoid eye contact rather than smile and say hi when they pass by; which is weird to me. Much like most of the PNW. Not much diversity but good people for the most part. There is a problem with homelessness and drug addiction on the streets. Petty crime and some rough looking people. V

I've skied powder this week, I've biked on the trails, hiked to see the northern lights, hit the golf ball around, and paddled in the lake. There is an abundant amount of recreation. I live at the base of Knox. My house backs up to the park, I wake up to deer in my backyard most mornings. Watch the eagles try to catch the ducks in the lake and occasionally see a beaver swimming by. It's peaceful and tranquil, 5 minutes from down town.



It took me 47min to drive to BW yesterday, I parked no more than 50 feet from the lift and skied right on at 10am. Skied a few lines in the "slack county", where I only saw one other group all day. 11in of storm snow on a 120in base. Yes, there is very little backcountry but there is zero competition. BW gets plenty of consistent snow, the elevation is relatively high and the good terrain gets the good snow and has better protection. You can ski untracked snow every single day with just a few steps uphill. It's short uninspiring terrain, some steep pitches, then mellow trees where you are struggling for speed. Silverstar and Apex have their good days. I was doing a pass at Revy for a few seasons, great mountain, but I can't stand the liftlines, driving 2.5hours or the variable snow on the bottom half. I hit it mid week on exceptional days or ski the pass instead now. Don't really like the truck stop, transient bro vibe either. Baker, Whister, KH, Whitewater, Red, are all close enough for weekend trips from the Okanagan. The Sled access skiing in the Monashes is world class, El Hefe proves that enough in this thread.

I do like Kelowna and the Okanagan in general. However if I could find a job that I could afford lakefront in Nelson on the north shore I would jump on it.