Southern BC interior 2017/2018

[DanoT]

From what I've been told Revelstoke started seeing returns and profits in 2014/2015 season; prior to that they were operating at a loss... Increased visitors, a pick up in real-estate and the mountain coaster have helped. In most cases if it doesn't snow there are no lines... 15+ cm overnight and the morning will have long lines mid-week and worse on weekends. They had planned to build a shorter lift between the top of the 2nd Gondola and the ripper chair that would have serviced some great high elevation beginner and intermediate terrain, which holds the snow very well... It would have also created a 2nd lift to access from the Gondola and a way to the ripper chair that didn't depend on the Stoke Chair. They even cut the lift line for this prolly 6-7 years ago... but then never built the lift.

But the owners are pretty awful when it comes to facility and infrastructure investment; all hype, propaganda and excuses... plus they are now extremely butt-hurt with the town of Revelstoke for approving an adjacent hotel/real-estate development... though the majority of interior BC ski resorts have been stagnant for 10-15 years in terms of development. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the only interior resorts that have seen any meaningful terrain/facility/infrastructure improvements have been Fernie, Red and Whitewater.

Yup, you are wrong.

Silver Star added the Putnam, now called Powder Gulch several years ago and their current trail map shows a Gondola coming summer of 2018.

Sun Peaks went from a record 350k skier visits in 2015-16 to 390k in 2016-17 and will be over 400k skier visits for this season.

2 on mountain eateries have been doubled in size, a new Medical Centre has opened, and the old Burfield Hostel has been torn down and replaced by a ski in/out hotel that has private rooms as well as bunk beds in dorm rooms for $50/night.

SP also plans a $30M investment over the next few years that will include a couple of lifts, new hotel and shops. They are expecting and planning for 500k skier visits within 5 years.

Also a few years ago SP expanded by 500 skiable acres, all black diamond, including some hike to formerly out of bounds terrain.

While the clientele at SS and SP differs from that at WW, Red, and Revy imo they are all benefiting from the $156 lift ticket and other high costs at Whistler.

[el hefe]

[/B]

Yup, you are wrong.

Silver Star added the Putnam, now called Powder Gulch several years ago and their current trail map shows a Gondola coming summer of 2018.
.

Putnam/powder gulch opened in 1991.

They replaced the older lift about 7 years ago and put in the silver woods chair and alpine meadows chair around then as well. 6 pack on the front was done around then too. Correct on the gondola which is replacing the ancient green chair.

[DanoT]

Putnam/powder gulch opened in 1991.

They replaced the older lift about 7 years ago and put in the silver woods chair and alpine meadows chair around then as well. 6 pack on the front was done around then too. Correct on the gondola which is replacing the ancient green chair.

The location of the gondola at SS seems kinda weird to me as it doesn't appear to cover that much vertical and it is sorta beside the 6 pack Comet chair. Is the gondola mostly for summer tourists?

[meepmoop24]

Heading to Red, WW, and Fernie in a week and was wondering if it's worth bringing touring gear? We'll be primarily skiing the resorts, but seems like at least WW has good side country options.

[Kulharin]

Yah, I had heard about the Silver Star Gondola, but that will only replace that old chair from the village... It won't open any new terrain as far as I know. Still it's a good idea... I remember powder days there, and the death race to the comet chair from the village. I'm not sure where Silver Star could expand further though? Their recent terrain expansion just added a gladed side-country triangle that was already largely skied.

SP will be exciting to see, but from what I could tell all they did semi-recently was expand the boundary to include a side-country area that was already also largely skied. Big White has done some summer stuff for hiking and biking but absolutely nothing significant winter related in nearly 20 years aside from twinning the Ridge Chair and the Telus Terrain Park over a decade ago (though there are rumors the east peak expansion may be moving forward soon). Kicking Horse, Revy, and Apex need to do something meaningful as well. Heck even the potential terrain around Mount Baldy which was recently re-opened is largely un-tapped, but I'm just glad to see them back up and running again.

[TahoeJ]

As a visiting touron, I found Kicking Horse's lift layout extremely frustrating and unbecoming of such great terrain. Basically you can ski that one face off Stairway to Heaven or otherwise you have to go all the way to the gondola at the bottom. At first I thought I must be missing something because who would design a lift layout like that...

[cmcrawfo]

The location of the gondola at SS seems kinda weird to me as it doesn't appear to cover that much vertical and it is sorta beside the 6 pack Comet chair. Is the gondola mostly for summer tourists?

Gondola will increase summer and event traffic. Restaurant on top to follow. It will continue to service night skiing, and from an actual skiing perspective, it will give access to terrain that sees very little use... moon beam-chute area.

Summer investment is going off at most resorts.... been to RMR in the summer? It's actually pretty busy with tourists, and considering they don't have much going on, that's amazing.

Additional infrastructure won't necessarily increase the cash flow. It will just keep bros happy. And face it, resorts make very little off regulars. It's family vacations, multi overnight they cater too... and infrastructure needs access to relate (for the most part) to realestate for it to be viable.

Even the recent addition of glades terrain at SS, that was more about timber value. Spill off is, some marginal 20 degree, difficult to access terrain was added to the map. After the get cash from the logs, the real value is what it adds to their mountain stats... it's a competitive game luring brits aussies , and now asians.

[cmcrawfo]

We talk about this lots it seems.... important to consider, in our lifetimes there has been expansion. Not a lot for us to complain about... u gotta beef, you can be your own lift on our own private b/c mountain. You just gotta work for it.

I was at kicking horse and RMR for their opening years ... and for those of you who were too, they were magic times. Brand new terrain, zero visitors. I would love to be able to experience that all the time, but it's not realistic.

[teamdirt]

I was at kicking horse and RMR for their opening years ... and for those of you who were too, they were magic times.

There was hardly any snow at kickinghorse the year it opened. We were Skiing rocks to treeline, followed by traversing the cat track all the way down the mountain as they didn’t clear the runs they cut because they thought it snowed a ton...that was very unmagical...

On the other hand “kill the banker” was not a marked run at RmR the year it opened and nobody new about it. Very magical!!

[toast2266]

Heading to Red, WW, and Fernie in a week and was wondering if it's worth bringing touring gear? We'll be primarily skiing the resorts, but seems like at least WW has good side country options.

WW definitely has good sidecountry. They also do 1 and 2 ride lift ticket options. Kootenay pass also has lots of options for a quick, mid-drive lap or two.

[DanoT]

Yah, I had heard about the Silver Star Gondola, but that will only replace that old chair from the village... It won't open any new terrain as far as I know. Still it's a good idea... I remember powder days there, and the death race to the comet chair from the village. I'm not sure where Silver Star could expand further though? Their recent terrain expansion just added a gladed side-country triangle that was already largely skied.

SP will be exciting to see, but from what I could tell all they did semi-recently was expand the boundary to include a side-country area that was already also largely skied. Big White has done some summer stuff for hiking and biking but absolutely nothing significant winter related in nearly 20 years aside from twinning the Ridge Chair and the Telus Terrain Park over a decade ago (though there are rumors the east peak expansion may be moving forward soon). Kicking Horse, Revy, and Apex need to do something meaningful as well. Heck even the potential terrain around Mount Baldy which was recently re-opened is largely un-tapped, but I'm just glad to see them back up and running again.

The Sun Peaks expansion was more than just the Gil's Hill side country becoming inbounds as they also cut 4 black diamond runs on West Morrisey. The end of the runs require a short hike to Back In Time which then takes you to the Burfield chair or you can take a free shuttle bus which runs every hour. Until they install a West Morrisey chair you really can't do laps and there are 2 other chairs that will likely get built first.

[Kulharin]

We talk about this lots it seems.... important to consider, in our lifetimes there has been expansion. Not a lot for us to complain about... u gotta beef, you can be your own lift on our own private b/c mountain. You just gotta work for it.

I was at kicking horse and RMR for their opening years ... and for those of you who were too, they were magic times. Brand new terrain, zero visitors. I would love to be able to experience that all the time, but it's not realistic.

You can prolly find that again in Valemount in the first few years if/when they get it up n running.

[paulster2626]

As a visiting touron, I found Kicking Horse's lift layout extremely frustrating and unbecoming of such great terrain. Basically you can ski that one face off Stairway to Heaven or otherwise you have to go all the way to the gondola at the bottom. At first I thought I must be missing something because who would design a lift layout like that...

Totally, right?

At least put a midstation in that gondi or something. Talking to some dudes at a rocket ship campfire at a bar in Golden, they told me next plan is for the mountain to get a lift in the ozone area, which would help tremendously. They seemed legit so I believe them. Just wonder when it’ll actually happen.

Revy and KH are still my go-to bro trip destinations no matter what right now. Problem is like what was said above - once my kids are old enough that the full family trip comes in to effect, it’s SS/Sun Peaks for sure. Need that ski in/out never leave the resort all week kinda setup to keep my sanity. It’s just too bad those places don’t have the ‘gnar.

Ahhh, problems of the modern skier...

[wicked_sick]

I believe at sun peaks the crystal chair is being replaced and extended to the top of the world, and the burfield will terminate at midstation, or slightly above. I know there's the planned west Morrissey chair as well, but I reckon the old crystal will be replaced first.

[nickinbc]

From what I've been told Revelstoke started seeing returns and profits in 2014/2015 season

I assume that is operating profit. If they were paying interest on the debt on the original investment I'm sure they would be deep in the red.

[DanoT]

The locals that I talked to when at Revy earlier this season said that the Mountain Coaster paid for itself in just its first summer and will be expanded and they joked that it will be subsidizing winter operations. All those summer tourists need something to do and the Mountain Coast requires no skiing or snowboarding skill.

The 4 lane-ing of the Trans-Canada highway from Kamloops to the Alberta border is more about trucking and summer tourism than winter travel.

[robnow]

On the other hand “kill the banker” was not a marked run at RmR the year it opened and nobody new about it. Very magical!!

Yup, only time I've ever skied it was chasing behind Hoji and Herjtaas on Grand opening weekend.

[garyfromterrace]

I believe at sun peaks the crystal chair is being replaced and extended to the top of the world, and the burfield will terminate at midstation, or slightly above. I know there's the planned west Morrissey chair as well, but I reckon the old crystal will be replaced first.

That seems bizarre. So to ski a true T to B, you'd have to ride 2 lifts? Makes no sense.

@ Paulster, there's gnar at Tod Mtn you just have to know where to look. And it's not in 2000' continuous pitches.

[Caucasian Asian]

That seems bizarre. So to ski a true T to B, you'd have to ride 2 lifts? Makes no sense.

@ Paulster, there's gnar at Tod Mtn you just have to know where to look. And it's not in 2000' continuous pitches.

That does sound odd. The Burf isn't that old(remember when it was a double?), but I can see replacing the Crystal.

[skiitsbetter]

the way people talk about their skiing in tech talk, I'm surprised the janky lift layout at Kicking Horse isn't preferred around here. Keeps the pow fresh longer, and forcing people to the base makes sure the weaker skiers are done by 1:00.

[DanoT]

That does sound odd. The Burf isn't that old(remember when it was a double?), but I can see replacing the Crystal.

SP management claims that there is no room to off load both the Burfield and new Crystal chairs at The Top of The World. I say BS, but it might require a bunch of excavation and extra cost and likely the Ministry of the Environment prefers as little disturbance in the Alpine as possible.

The Burf will be shortened by about 1/3 with the off load terminal at approx. the bottom of The Chief/Highway 22. So after skiing Back Door, Sunny Side etc., you get on at Mid and then ride for just a few hundred feet and then off load. Lift capacity will increase by 1/3 by adding chairs but still a very slow chair.

The new Crystal will be high speed so it will mean one huge mogul field in the entire Alpine from Back Door all the way around to The Chute.

These days, due to all the development 2 miles down the road from the Burfield Base, the Burfield Chair and Top of the World are less busy than the 1980s when there was no SP Village development. Most skiers who are new to SP ride the Burf once and then never come back to it but they sure will ride the new high speed Crystal chair to the Top. So all of the long time locals are unhappy about the coming changes.

Our best hope is that the Orient Ridge chair installation happens quickly as its base will be near the Mount Morrisey base (but going up the other side of the valley). Orient Ridge will be all intermediate but will be the impetus to develop the East Village and hopefully draw more skiers even further away from the Burfield.

The 3rd chair will serve the all black diamond runs and one blue run currently on West Morrisey with the option of cutting some double black diamond runs, all with about 1200-1500 vertical.

[sparkletarte.]

Ww has had a lot of investment since the new owners. This summer a new lodge and replacement lift, prior to that new lift and terrain. Higher prices and busier but there you go. We were prob pretty cheap and quiet relative to other places. I.m looking forward to more terrain expansion on white queen but meh on the potential condos.

Spchin- def bring your touring gear. Heaps of sidecountry here. It.s the coldsmoke powfest this weekend which has a ton of sidecountry clinics so expect anything visible/nearby to be tracked. You.ll just have to work a bit more than usual.

I don.t like revy.s layout and after going a few times have no desire to return. That ninja traverse is brutal on a board esp for the short vert you get. I never got the whole expansion plans with the lack of reasonable (for tourists) travel options to get there and kicking horse on the way. I went a couple times when it was just a little hill at the bottom. Tons of low elevation snow back then!

[TahoeJ]

the way people talk about their skiing in tech talk, I'm surprised the janky lift layout at Kicking Horse isn't preferred around here. Keeps the pow fresh longer, and forcing people to the base makes sure the weaker skiers are done by 1:00.

To be fair, on a normal uncrowded day it wouldn't have mattered as much as it did on a busy holiday weekend... so the lines at the gondy got pretty long and that made it more frustrating. Great mountain though - I plan to come back on a non-holiday sometime.

[Kulharin]

The Ninja traverse is a non issue if snow is good 2/3rd's down the mountain; plenty of fun ways down... Otherwise it's pretty brutal. Especially before they have enough snow to even open 'mid' station and everyone has to ride it back. The spots where it cuts across the runs are especially rough. The south/montana bowl chair and the newb chair would certainly solve the issue of the ninja traverse as well as the flat track back from Ripper and north bowl.

[paulster2626]

@ Paulster, there's gnar at Tod Mtn you just have to know where to look. And it's not in 2000' continuous pitches.

Inbounds? Slack? I remember some challenging stuff in/around the headwall area and over on the morrisey side, but surely you are referring to something sphincter-tightening that my ignorant tourist ass knows nothing about.

I’m 90% sure I’ll be at Sun Peaks March 2019 with the whole damn family so I’ll have to beg for a mountain tour from someone then. Hopefully a dude will oblige.



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