Calling any Old Brits who remember their Math

[DougW]

I have a neighbour who claims that he was taught in 70's a simple left to right order of operations.

so 4+5x8 = 72 rather than 44

If this possible? I did some searches and found that the order of operations was settled in the late 1800s.

[Mazderati]

No.

[iceman]

Use parentheses

[glademaster]

PEMDAS, motherfucker.

[riser4]

False premise. The British study 'maths' not math.

[zartagen]

It's maths, Brits don't know what math is.

[DougW]

Ok Maths then when they did their A levels

[riser4]

Ok Maths then when they did their A levels

Now yer talkin. I can't answer your question though, I'm not British. Let me ask my father in law. He grew up being bombed by the Germans in Liverpool. 90 qualifies as old. Give me a few hours.

[::: :::]

Your neighbor didn't pass his a levels

[DougW]

part maybe 15% of email he sent to my wife rest lots of hand waving about his hurt feeling because I posted a BBC video from Open University that I thought ended the matter

"This was not taught until relatively recently in the U.K. Or at least there was no national consistency. It was changing right about the time my kids were going through school. Not only was it not taught, a different left to right system was taught, and we too had a little phrase drilled into us. This is not simply about omitting to teach it. In our method we resolve the individual groups or clusters and then work from left to right applying each numeral and function in sequence. Interestingly in a phrase such as X(A+B), we would resolve it as one item before proceeding. "

[Buster Highmen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations

[riser4]

My British father in law said 72. He said it should be in parentheses if you want to arrive at 44. He also said there's a difference between simple arithmetic and algebra. Ok then...

[DougW]

Order of operations just allows you to not use the brackets or parentheses.

On Brits getting 72 there might be something to this but if you simply did it left to right the you would get the wrong answer for E=mc**2 a Brit would go m x c and then square the product and end up with ( mc)**2 which is wrong

[St. Jerry]

It's maths, Brits don't know what math is.

"Wrong, do it again!"
"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"
"You! Yes, you behind the bike sheds, stand still laddy!"

[FLS]

"behind the bike sheds..."

A DS reference?

[riser4]

Order of operations just allows you to not use the brackets or parentheses.

On Brits getting 72 there might be something to this but if you simply did it left to right the you would get the wrong answer for E=mc**2 a Brit would go m x c and then square the product and end up with ( mc)**2 which is wrong

No. E=mc^2 is not simple arithmetic according to my father in law. Apparently he makes a distinction between simple arithmetic, which allows him to arrive at 72, and all other not simple arithmetic, which allows him to correctly calculate E=mc^2.

For the record, I agree with you DougW. I'm incredulous. So is my 14 yo son taking pre-calc. He was very adamant about the order of ops that you and I agree on.

[DougW]

Its funny that was a different rule for simple math vs not so simple. The funny thing in this case that he was there for the change over so knows about the new "convention" but doesn't pigheadedly use it.

[Ted Striker]

I have a neighbour who claims that he was taught in 70's a simple left to right order of operations.

so 4+5x8 = 72 rather than 44

Ok Maths then when they did their A levels

My British father in law said 72.

My wife, who did do her A Levels in England (although not in the 70s) said, "44, and those other guys are idiots"

[riser4]

My wife, who did do her A Levels in England (although not in the 70s) said, "44, and those other guys are idiots"

Like I said, my father in law is 90. That was a long time ago. He's decidedly not an idiot. And either way gets a pass for living to 90 so far.

[DougW]

wow he's is going full retard in email, still uses old method but acknowledges "There is no room for two or more competing conventions any more on that we can agree."

[highangle]

Your neighbor didn't pass his a levels

Quite. Couldn't get O levels in maths without knowing the order of operations...


O, or "Ordinary" Levels were standard high school cirricula completions. ie Maths, History, English Grammar/Comp, Chemistry, etc, in the absence of an America-style blanket diploma.

A, or "Advanced" Levels were advanced placement completions, like Calculus (for diff + the integral), Physics (physics with calc), Statistics, etc. More equivalent to college freshman.

[TurxSki]

^^ and there were also CSE's, which were below the O levels...
Must say, I am amongst the stupid & old.
What I see is multiplying the sum you have "after" doing the addition.
*Left to right.* you said?
(4+5=9, so 9×8=72)
Y'all are multiplying first, then adding.
So working *Right to left*.
(8×5=40, so 40+4=44)
Why not write it 8×5+4 then?
All will agree on outcome?
Is it convention to do mutiply/divide b4 add/subtract?

[The AD]

My British father in law said 72. He said it should be in parentheses if you want to arrive at 44. He also said there's a difference between simple arithmetic and algebra. Ok then...

So he doesn't understand the order of operations and he also doesn't understand the difference between arithmetic and algebra.

[LongShortLong]

My British father in law said 72. He said it should be in parentheses if you want to arrive at 44. He also said there's a difference between simple arithmetic and algebra. Ok then...

This is approximately what I learned in 'murkin skool. Somewhere around 6th-8th grade (i.e. algebra) it got confusing because you'd need context to determine whether intent was L to R or PEMDAS.

Just like ambiguity in language, you can re-phrase. (4+5)*8 will get your rocket to Mars.

Later came Polish notation, RPN, stack and accumulator models, currying, ... I'm sure a few of you Piled it Higher and Deeper in math(s).

[Ted Striker]

Like I said, my father in law is 90. That was a long time ago. He's decidedly not an idiot. And either way gets a pass for living to 90 so far.

Relax. I may have taken some artistic license.