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  1. #126
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Hell Track
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    8,488
    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    Any thoughts on using offset bushings or angleset to reduce head angle by a degree? Just got a 2019 Sentinel, and contemplating making it a touch steeper and testing it out.
    Offset bushing will mess with your BB height. Angleset won't (as much). And yeah, what Andeh said. Embrace the freight train.

  2. #127
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by Andeh View Post
    Ride it first for a while. I have never once said while riding mine, "gee, I wish this had a steeper HTA." Whereas on my Smuggler, I have wished it was slacker.
    Thanks for the feedback. Thats what I am hoping, that I adjust to it and not worry about it! Was debating between Sentinel and Smuggler for Socal trail riding and bike park at mammoth/bear. Opted for the Sentinel which would be better suited for the bike park with the longer travel and slacker geomety, and was hoping it wouldnt be too much bike for normal trail riding. But thought adjusting the headtube angle to 65 degrees might place it more in between the two and make it more versatile.

    Probably getting ahead of myself, but it fun to research such things.

    And let me say, getting into mountain bikes has been an EXCELLENT way (albeit expensive too) to occupy time during the summer when we cant nerd out on skis haha
    Unofficial Fact: Skiing was 69% more rad in the 1980's.

  3. #128
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    590
    If you have the 2019 grip 2 Fox 36 on the Sentinel, the LSR (faster) makes a huge difference in making the bike feel more poppy and playful as has been discussed here.

  4. #129
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The bottom of LCC
    Posts
    5,108
    The grip2 feels so much better than the RC2 it replaced. I used to think that separate lsr/hsr and lsc/hsc was just a gimick but I spent some time dialing things in this spring when I got the grip2 and it really does make a difference. I set my lsr pretty quick and my hsr on the slower side.

    This video is long but I feel like he does a pretty good job describing things:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9vsOHmmmpo

  5. #130
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
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    716
    Great info on the rebound guys. I've watched that video, and its really helpful. What are your fork HSC and LSC settings?
    Unofficial Fact: Skiing was 69% more rad in the 1980's.

  6. #131
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The bottom of LCC
    Posts
    5,108
    I had been running mine just a few clicks in from full open but recently got some suspension work done by a Fox R&D guy and he set it up with them both in the middle (10 hsc, 6 lsc from closed). Been running it like that for about a week and it feels pretty good. I'm less picky about the compression than the rebound, or at least I notice less of a difference when making adjustments to compression.

    All of this is pretty subjective though. It's all going to change based on rider weight, terrain, speeds...It's like trying to have a discussion about which tire is best.

  7. #132
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    Great info on the rebound guys. I've watched that video, and its really helpful. What are your fork HSC and LSC settings?
    I'm just under 170 lbs without gear. Running my GRIP2 36 x160 at:
    74 psi (fully extended & equalized)
    7 clicks LSR (from closed)
    7 clicks HSR
    10 clicks LSC
    15 clicks HSC

    I have a Luftkappe on the air shaft, and replaced the Fox seals with the green SKF ones. Using Fox oil.

  8. #133
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by Andeh View Post
    I'm just under 170 lbs without gear. Running my GRIP2 36 x160 at:
    74 psi (fully extended & equalized)
    7 clicks LSR (from closed)
    7 clicks HSR
    10 clicks LSC
    15 clicks HSC

    I have a Luftkappe on the air shaft, and replaced the Fox seals with the green SKF ones. Using Fox oil.
    Thanks. Im 165 without gear, so pretty close to you. Will keep these numbers in mind. What are your rear shock settings?
    Unofficial Fact: Skiing was 69% more rad in the 1980's.

  9. #134
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    Thanks. Im 165 without gear, so pretty close to you. Will keep these numbers in mind. What are your rear shock settings?
    On my DPX2, I got the my tune talking to one of the guys at Transition.
    biggest volume token (1.02) - yours will have the second largest (0.86) if it's a 2019 which should be fine unless you frequently jump to flat.
    185 PSI (fully equalized - takes about 5 cycles of pumping up, pushing on saddle, repeat)
    10 clicks rebound
    4 clicks LSC

  10. #135
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    5,546
    Thanks for of the suspension set up talk. I'll check mine and reply back as I'm also on the grip2 36, but at 140mm travel which I'm sure is different than 160mm sentinel.

  11. #136
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
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    Ok, so 170 pounds, no gear. Grip2 36 140mm. All numbers from full clockwise:
    Air pressure 68
    LSR: 7 clicks from full clockwise
    HSR: 4 clicks
    LSC: 7 clicks
    HSC: 12 clicks

    It felt pretty good but my hands did get super fatigued by the end of a long downhill (3ish miles). Would that be HSC? So much has changed from my other bike that could cause tired hands; 35mm bar, riding position, stiffer wheels, could just be fitness.

  12. #137
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    477
    Probably HSC, although it could also potentially be LSC. Honestly though, one recommendation I've seen often that makes sense to me is to open both compression settings fully, then focus on air pressure. The air spring is the biggest factor in comfort and performance. Increase pressure like 5 psi. Go out, ride, think about if it felt better or worse. If it felt better, add a bit more air. If it felt worse, take some out. Once it feels pretty well bracketed, then start adding compression damping to stiffen it up in the applicable scenarios.

    I don't exactly know what did it, but I went from a lower pressure like that (65-68) up to higher pressure with the rebound settings I mentioned, and it completely removed my slightly sore hands. I think it's cause my usual trails are fairly steep, and running higher pressure (less seated sag) keeps me further away from the progressive ramp-up at the end of the travel. With lower pressure, I was probably sitting deeper in the travel, and while not packing out, it was probably something similar.

  13. #138
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
    Posts
    6,190
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    It felt pretty good but my hands did get super fatigued by the end of a long downhill (3ish miles). Would that be HSC? So much has changed from my other bike that could cause tired hands; 35mm bar, riding position, stiffer wheels, could just be fitness.
    35mm bar (and/or the material) = possibly. Thicker/softer grips might help that. Or are you sensitive to different up/back sweep angles? (which you'd notice on long climbs as well)

    riding position = very possible. How much longer is this bike? How long/high is the stem?

  14. #139
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Yukon
    Posts
    623
    For those interested in feedback on the Sentinel v. Smuggler question, just spent two weeks on an alloy Sentinel waiting for my carbon Smuggler to get built up. Got the Smuggler yesterday and am super happy with the decision. With no prior experience on any Transition, it did not take long to adjust to the SBG. Both the Sentinel and the Smuggler feel incredibly stable and planted and are ridiculously fun to ride. If you are building up a higher end version of either bike you really cannot go wrong. I went with the mid-travel Smuggler option because it's a better fit for the more pedal-y riding we have in the Yukon. I did buy a different air piston and up-fork the stock 140mm Fox 36 to a 150mm which so far has been great. The 150/120 balance is a great middle of the road option and I don't feel I'm sacrificing anything over the Sentinel in downhill performance.

    Earlier in this thread there was some talk about stem length and deviating from the 40mm stock lengths. The 40mm is the sweet spot, no question about it. I built the Smuggler with a 50mm Chromag BZA and immediately found the bike twitchy and unstable. Swapped it out for the 40mm length today and it's back to feeling like the "Sentinel light" as the cool kids in Bellingham like to call the Smuggler. Amazing that pulling the bar 10mm back can make that much of a difference.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #140
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
    Posts
    6,190
    Yeah, the transition guys spent a lot of time mule testing to get the stem length vs fork offset/rake equation right.

    I'm not sure I've ever met someone who doesn't like the smuggler.

  16. #141
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,754
    New patrol colors for 2020?

  17. #142
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Driggs
    Posts
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by Solesides View Post
    For those interested in feedback on the Sentinel v. Smuggler question, just spent two weeks on an alloy Sentinel waiting for my carbon Smuggler to get built up. Got the Smuggler yesterday and am super happy with the decision. With no prior experience on any Transition, it did not take long to adjust to the SBG. Both the Sentinel and the Smuggler feel incredibly stable and planted and are ridiculously fun to ride. If you are building up a higher end version of either bike you really cannot go wrong. I went with the mid-travel Smuggler option because it's a better fit for the more pedal-y riding we have in the Yukon. I did buy a different air piston and up-fork the stock 140mm Fox 36 to a 150mm which so far has been great. The 150/120 balance is a great middle of the road option and I don't feel I'm sacrificing anything over the Sentinel in downhill performance.

    Earlier in this thread there was some talk about stem length and deviating from the 40mm stock lengths. The 40mm is the sweet spot, no question about it. I built the Smuggler with a 50mm Chromag BZA and immediately found the bike twitchy and unstable. Swapped it out for the 40mm length today and it's back to feeling like the "Sentinel light" as the cool kids in Bellingham like to call the Smuggler. Amazing that pulling the bar 10mm back can make that much of a difference.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yeah! Did some similar stuff with my (metal) Smuggler. 150 mm fork feels great, started with a 50 mm stem, didn't feel terrible, but went to the 32 mm Anvl stem and it's way more stable.

    Been chasing a friend on a Sentinal all summer and have been loving the Smuggler. Can keep up on all but the chunkiest bike park trails. But next bike will probably be a plastic Sentinal. Can't go wrong with either!

  18. #143
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    5,546
    Iím loving this bike, so much fun. Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #144
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    956
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I’m loving this bike, so much fun. Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks like a ripper!

  20. #145
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hyperspace!
    Posts
    1,037
    Rode a patrol for a day in bellingham. Mrs was on the scout.
    We demo'd Kona process 153 29r and 27.5 the previous day.
    the process 29r was the best all around bike of he bunch. up/down - stable and predictable good for all day riding.
    simply go ride - don't think about the bike.
    the process 27.5 was a bit more twitchy. we both though the 29r was the better version.

    got on the patrol and immediately notice the wheel flop - something my usual bike has as well (banshee - spitfire)
    bike didn't really come alive for me until I pinned it on the down.
    I really enjoyed it.
    Didn't get on the scout but the mrs enjoyed it though mostly because it was 12 speed so uphill was "easier".

    If I was looking for an all day ride the process 29 is a great bike.
    More oriented on the down, the patrol was the winner.

  21. #146
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    583
    Can you elaborate on wheel flop?

  22. #147
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    5,546
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    Ok, so 170 pounds, no gear. Grip2 36 140mm. All numbers from full clockwise:
    Air pressure 68
    LSR: 7 clicks from full clockwise
    HSR: 4 clicks
    LSC: 7 clicks
    HSC: 12 clicks

    It felt pretty good but my hands did get super fatigued by the end of a long downhill (3ish miles). Would that be HSC? So much has changed from my other bike that could cause tired hands; 35mm bar, riding position, stiffer wheels, could just be fitness.
    Still tweaking the suspension, and I got the shockwiz from the LBS to use for the next week, haven't hooked it up yet. I found out that the 140mm comes with 4 volume spacers installed from the factory and I'm going to pull some before the first use of the shockwiz.
    Question: Should I pull 1 or 2 of the 4? At the above pressures and settings the fork feels pretty good, but I'm leaving almost 1/3rd of the travel on the table on the chunkiest/fastest trails that I typically ride. I tried dropping the pressure a bit but that gave me too much fork dive/mid stroke wallowing that I couldn't tune out with LSC, so I'm leaning towards pulling 2 volume spacers and going from there.

    Owner of the LBS suggested that Fox ships with way too many spacers and said most riders would be better off with only 1 spacer and more linear spring rate, but pulling 3 seems excessive to start?

  23. #148
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    10,564
    I'd pull at least two.

  24. #149
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    3,667
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    <snip> Fox
    I think I see your problem!


  25. #150
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    716
    Does anybody adjust their rear shock pressure/sag settings based on what kind of terrain they are riding? It seems like it could be beneficial to run more pressure/less sag for trail and less pressure/more sag for bike park/downhill. Wouldn't that change the effective geometry of the bike and have it better suited for each type of riding?

    Sorry if this is an obvious question, but I'm new to all this. I would be doing this on my Sentinel with a DPX2.
    Unofficial Fact: Skiing was 69% more rad in the 1980's.

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