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  1. #1
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    New Transitions too slack?

    The new Transitions look cool, but it seems like a 64 degree headtube angle is approaching too slack for real trail riding. Wouldn't that be a little tiring to pedal up your average trail all day? Even the Scout went to a 65 degree angle and I thought it was pretty sweet at 67.

    https://www.transitionbikes.com/2018preview.cfm

  2. #2
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    The messed around with the fork offsets. Supposedly that makes things work better. Whether that's actually the case is TBD.

  3. #3
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    Boost Plus wheels, 'tard wide bars and sofa slack is the new standard.
    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
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  4. #4
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    Your pedaling position is way forward on those things too though. They got rid of the dumb real seat tube angles that happened when everyone went to bigger wheels. The increased front wheel weight should help.


    I'm with you for different reasons though. I think some lower speed snappiness is going to be lost but more due to the fork offset changes and wheelbase lengths. I've talked to a few people who have ridden their test mule/figure it out bikes and they seemed to like them.

    But generally speaking a 64-65 deg short travel bike is something I've wanted for a long time. Travel aside, that's just good high speed handlin'
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    The messed around with the fork offsets. Supposedly that makes things work better. Whether that's actually the case is TBD.
    Yeah, you can get the same trail with slacker HT angle by increasing the fork offset
    Last edited by DIYSteve; 08-25-2017 at 10:15 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    Yeah, you can get the same trail with slacker HT angle by lessening the fork offset
    Slackening the head angle and decreasing the offset substantially increases the trail. You'd need to increase the offset if you wanted the trail to stay the same.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Slackening the head angle and decreasing the offset substantially increases the trail. You'd need to increase the offset if you wanted the trail to stay the same.
    Right. Which is what fork companies have continued to do to make bigger wheels not feel so sluggish.

    Fox moreso than rockshox has gone a little overboard with this. To the point where there's so much leverage on the wheel when hitting things with one of their 29er setups, the front end gets knocked around. I'm glad to see this. I think it's the bounce back/equalization of taking things a little too far at first.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Right. Which is what fork companies have continued to do to make bigger wheels not feel so sluggish.

    Fox moreso than rockshox has gone a little overboard with this. To the point where there's so much leverage on the wheel when hitting things with one of their 29er setups, the front end gets knocked around. I'm glad to see this. I think it's the bounce back/equalization of taking things a little too far at first.
    I thought both Rockshox and Fox were running 51mm offsets for wagon wheels these days?

    But regardless, the trail and wheel flop numbers for the new transitions makes me question how they'll handle. On high speed stuff I'm sure they're great, but on slower speed stuff, and tighter off camber corners, I don't see how the front end isn't going to push.

  9. #9
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    Just going from memory RS makes two different offsets for 29 trail bike forks, but yeah one of them is 51/52. The 27.5s are a bigger difference even. Generally speaking all the fox offsets are greater for a wheelsize except some older cast 37ish ones from way back for 26 they still use on the 831s.

    The most annoying one I've ridden is the fox dh 27.5 forks (also 51mm). It's too much. It's actually the main reason I still run 26s on my dh bike.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Slackening the head angle and decreasing the offset substantially increases the trail. You'd need to increase the offset if you wanted the trail to stay the same.
    Right, of course. I had it backwards. Brain fart. Edited my post. Larger wheel diameter also corresponds to longer trail.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    Boost Plus wheels, 'tard wide bars and sofa slack is the new standard.
    Pay particular attention to bike checks of pro riders, you'll see that many of them are not running the over the top trends that the industry is pushing.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    The new Transitions look cool, but it seems like a 64 degree headtube angle is approaching too slack for real trail riding. Wouldn't that be a little tiring to pedal up your average trail all day? Even the Scout went to a 65 degree angle and I thought it was pretty sweet at 67.

    https://www.transitionbikes.com/2018preview.cfm
    A 29er with a 64 degree head angle? Does it steer like a pontoon boat?

  13. #13
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    I'm assuming they publish their head angles at sag height? Most of their bikes are running longer fork length than rear travel, I wonder what the sag assumptions are.

    I've actually been wanting a 130mm trail bike with 65* HA w/ 150mm fork ... new Scout geo looks pretty sweet to me!

    I personally would love to demo the new Scout w/ a dual position fork. I really like them on "do it all" bikes ... if you ran 120mm going uphill you might be right around 66.5* depending on sag assumptions, which when paired with 76 degree STA might feel okay on the way up.

    Besides, if 65 HA is too slack for you just get a Works Headseat and rotate the cups to get +1 orientation.
    _______________________________________________
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio View Post
    I'm assuming they publish their head angles at sag height? .
    No one does that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio View Post
    Besides, if 65 HA is too slack for you just get a Works Headseat and rotate the cups to get +1 orientation.
    Exactly. It makes me sad that every bike made doesn't come with a full 1.5" headtube.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  15. #15
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    Is one of these offset forks the missing piece of the puzzle? Really like to try it. Running a 160 fork on my scout and ordered a works -1 headset over a month ago. If the hs ever gets here I'll be at 65 ha(may drop the fork to 150). I'm ok with 65/65.5 climbing, especially with these steeper sa and 32mm stem. The seat angle has been a noticed improvement compared to my rune. Put a 180mm travel fork on the rune and it now has a 64 ha and it's a little past where I'd like it for climbing. Steeper seat angle would help it. Maybe less fork offset would make it $ ? Definitely curious.

  16. #16
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    Like toast said. Less offset should do the opposite of what they're claiming as far as climbing/very slow speeds.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  17. #17
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    I always wanted to try a super slack 29er with a fork that had a lot of offset. But I think the only fork that has more than 51 or 52mm offset is one of the longer travel Lefty's (which has like 60mm). But the Lefty is a deal breaker.

  18. #18
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    I had a lowrider bike with a dropped spring fork that ended up with like a 2-3ft offset.

    'steering' wasn't really in the repertoire of the model per se.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    I had a lowrider bike with a dropped spring fork that ended up with like a 2-3ft offset.

    'steering' wasn't really in the repertoire of the model per se.
    probably just needed some 29" wheels.

  20. #20
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    Well obviously. Answer to everything.


    I had a 12" wheel on it. When you turn the highly stylistic rams head handlebars, the bike would just lift up, and kind of sort of go the direction you wanted. Took a lot of effort though. Much better to just go in a straight line and look cool. Then stop, pick it up and turn it around.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  21. #21
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    https://www.transitionbikes.com/SBG.cfm

    I'll be interested to hear back from non-industry types. Put some time on a Scout, and have been riding a Scout clone for the past week. Hard to imagine it getting much better, but I've been saying that for years.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  22. #22
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    2017 Patrol is the most fun bike I've ever owned.

    I'd say try the 2018s before you knock em.

    That said...

    For Sale: Lightly used 2017 Transition Patrol.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by regct View Post

    I'd say try the 2018s before you knock em.



    For Sale: Lightly used 2017 Transition Patrol.


    Isn't that kind of like praising them before you try them?


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    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by regct View Post

    For Sale: Lightly used 2017 Transition Patrol.

    Lowball offer incoming, due to it being old technology and all.

  25. #25
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    A steep seat angle allows for a slack head angle while maintaining good seated climbing behaviour. I am blown away by the uphill handling on my Chromag Rootdown BA (65.5 HA / 75.5 SA with my 150 Pike). Keeping the stack height reasonable is key as well.

    Whether a slack HA is what you're after for handling on descents is a different story, but it's definitely possible to design a bike that gets a slack HA uphill quite nicely.

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