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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by joetron View Post
    I fucking love my Snuggler.

    I bought a medium carbon this spring. Iím right in between sizes, but have regretted going large on my last 2 frames before I got a used medium pre-sbg Patrol Al last year. I just have way more fun on medium bikes and most geo has finally caught up.
    I did swap the 40mm stem I started with for a 50mm. The fit, steering and balance of the bike improved significantly.
    Longer frames and shorter stems is not always the answer.
    Kinda sorta been looking at one of these to replace my XC bike. Thoughts as an all-day ride, long/steep climbs, XC type bike?
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    Kinda sorta been looking at one of these to replace my XC bike. Thoughts as an all-day ride, long/steep climbs, XC type bike?
    I'd love to demo one. I'm curious how well it handles high speed rough terrain, a la CMG below Mojave. I'm too afraid to actually try one though because I'm afraid I'd like it and I need to squeeze a couple more years out of what I have now (tallboy ltc).

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Seattle
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    352
    I am amazed the large isn't too small for you. I just test rode a large Guerrilla Gravity with numbers that about match an XL transition and it felt too small. Still planning on test riding a sentinel but likely going to go with an XL GG Smash 515 reach and 670 stack for my lanky 6'3"

    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    I picked up the Sentinel NX last week on sale. Iím loving it, itís the best pedaling bike Iíve ever owned. I could go out all day on it no problem. On the downhill sections, itís pretty damn fast. I bet I could ride park with it, and only feel out of place on the gnarliest trails. Itís not too cushy, not too progressive, Transitions version of horst link feels really well balanced and provides a boatload of traction both up and down. The term Iím about to use is overused, but it sincerely climbs like a billy goat up techy steep climbs.

    Iím 6í2Ē, 34Ē inseam, 77Ē reach, and ride the Large frame. Some people recommended XL, but I rode both and prefer the Large. Itís a big bike, the wheelbase is almost the same as modern DH bikes.

    The smuggler was amazing too. If you dont need or want a big bike, the smuggler is the way to go. I would feel better sizing up to the XL on the Smuggler, more so than on the bigger Sentinel.


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  4. #54
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Tahoe
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    New Transitions too slack?

    The 475mm reach of the large is the longest I have ever ridden. 1247mm wheelbase is almost a DH bike. For a 140mm bike, I dont need anything larger.

    In no way, shape, or form is this bike too small for me. It fits perfeclty. The XL wasnt too big, but it felt ever so slightly off, whereas the L felt perfect.

    Transition told me to go with the Large frame too, when I talked to them and told them what Iím after. Their sizing chart is perfect, so if youíre in between sizes, you can truly go either way based on your preferences.

    Everyone else, besides Transition, told me to go XL. Iím not into this new fad to go huge on bikes. Nothing about the L, on paper or riding it, is too short for me. The L is bigger than most XL bikes from a few years ago, besides the seat tube length.

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  5. #55
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    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlh View Post
    I am amazed the large isn't too small for you. I just test rode a large Guerrilla Gravity with numbers that about match an XL transition and it felt too small. Still planning on test riding a sentinel but likely going to go with an XL GG Smash 515 reach and 670 stack for my lanky 6'3"
    I rode both a MD Patrol and a MD Megatrail recently. On paper the reach of the GG is 15mm longer in reach than the Transition (465mm vs. 450mm) and 30mm taller in stack (635mm vs 605mm). Both bikes had 40mm stems on them. On dirt, the Megatrail did not feel larger than the Patrol. If anything, it felt maybe a tiny bit shorter. Can't tell you why. I also rode a LG Norco Sight (449mm reach and 50mm stem) and it felt larger than either the Megatrail and Patrol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  6. #56
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    Oct 2002
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    Shadynasty's Jazz Club
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    Can't say how it relates to actual sitting on the bike fit, but GG has always said that their sizing is shifted. So, a medium is a typical large, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I'd love to demo one. I'm curious how well it handles high speed rough terrain, a la CMG below Mojave. I'm too afraid to actually try one though because I'm afraid I'd like it and I need to squeeze a couple more years out of what I have now (tallboy ltc).
    Stop limiting your potential in favor of dumb stuff like a budget.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    502
    I test rode a medium GG Trail Pistol last weekend, and as someone on the bottom end of the size range (5'-8", 30" inseam, +2" ape index), the cockpit fit felt perfect. Bike was set up with 40mm stem, 750mm bars (too narrow), 170mm cranks. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to get a 150mm dropper low enough due to my stumpy legs, but I still had about 1" between the top of the ST and the bottom of the KS dropper. The only felt that felt kinda funky was that I felt much higher up than I do on either my Chameleon (also with 29er wheels, but lower BB height) or my Nomad 3 (27.5 wheels but same BB height). I may have had the seat slightly too high still - didn't spend a ton of time fiddling with cockpit since it was someone else's bike. I'd rate the pedaling at or above an Ibis, and descending step downs felt really confidence inspiring due to the super high stack. I want a Smash so very, very badly right now.

    The owner of the bike says he regularly rides Transition demos out of his friend's shop, and that they pedal much worse than GG, and are typically about 2 lbs heavier.

  8. #58
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I'd love to demo one. I'm curious how well it handles high speed rough terrain, a la CMG below Mojave. I'm too afraid to actually try one though because I'm afraid I'd like it and I need to squeeze a couple more years out of what I have now (tallboy ltc).
    It just skips over that stuff. Itís so nimble and poppy and easy to change directions, as long as youíre not totally blinded by dust and can kind of pick a line and avoid the tombstones, itís amazing.

    As far as long days with big climbs...for smoother stuff I flick a switch, but for any other normal trail climbing I think it does great fully active.

    I havenít touched my Patrol in over a month, Iíve got serious new bike-itis. This is my first 29er, so itís been a blast getting it figured out.



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  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    959
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I'd love to demo one. I'm curious how well it handles high speed rough terrain, a la CMG below Mojave. I'm too afraid to actually try one though because I'm afraid I'd like it and I need to squeeze a couple more years out of what I have now (tallboy ltc).
    Life is short, don't let a couple years go by if you're not fully enamored with the Tallboy.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Cascades
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    517

    New Transitions too slack?

    Quote Originally Posted by panchosdad View Post
    Life is short, don't let a couple years go by if you're not fully enamored with the Tallboy.
    Haha love it - QFT. Except Tallboy = (fill in the blank skis, bike, whatever)

  11. #61
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by panchosdad View Post
    Life is short, don't let a couple years go by if you're not fully enamored with the Tallboy.
    I don't even know how I can argue with this logic.

  12. #62
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    Kinda sorta been looking at one of these to replace my XC bike. Thoughts as an all-day ride, long/steep climbs, XC type bike?
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I'd love to demo one. I'm curious how well it handles high speed rough terrain, a la CMG below Mojave. I'm too afraid to actually try one though because I'm afraid I'd like it and I need to squeeze a couple more years out of what I have now (tallboy ltc).
    My experience was limited to the Smuggler. The Smuggler was second favorite bike on my "demo circuit." I liked it so much, I rode it 2x, just to be sure I wasn't trying to like it. My favorite bike was the new Pivot FB29. These two bike have vastly different suspension (type and numbers), so why would I like both?

    Easy: They are both BIG bikes. I am 6'4, 225 with gear and I have super-long monkey arms. Both are long bikes...both have reach of ~50 in XL. Both are also sturdy, beefy frames; especially for the Smuggler: it looks and feels like it can take repeated beatings. The length and stiffness provides a stable ride, but also just fit a large long guy like myself. However, despite the length, I believe (and I'm no expert), that the short chainstays (<17) and offset forks combine to give a poppy feel that also minimizes wheel flop and problems with tight turns.

    For ZigZag: My experience was that the Smuggler handles high speed rough terrain very well. BUT, it's the kind of bike I can get in trouble on...I mean that in a good way. You have to remind yourself that there's not 150mm out back b/c it handles stuff beyond its suspension numbers. Never rode the LTC, but I'm not a fan of VPP V1 or V2 (I've heard the new version is improved, but haven't rode), so I'm not a very good reference b/c I'd take either Smuggler or FB29 over the LTC.

    For Bagtag: I didn't see where you wrote what your current bike is, but make no mistake: the Smuggler WILL NOT replace an XC bike. It's heavier, burlier, and rowdier. At 225, a pound in the frame is no big deal, but if your 5'6" and 145lbs, I could see you saying: this bike just weighs too much. Climbing: it preferred grinding up a hill at a steady pace...no problems getting up anything, but no one will ever mistake it for an S-Works Epic. But, unlike a lot of XC bikes, you will not be scared shitless going downhill.

    Don't know if that helps at all, but that's my experience.
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    No thanks. I'll stick with porn. - Benny

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    819
    Get a trail bike that you mesh well with going downhill. The uphill will take care of itself. Its amazing how fast your fitness will improve if forced to.

    i went from a 26" 3x10 geared trail bike to a 29" 1x10 heavy enduro bike that was NOT geared for the terrain i typically ride (steep long logging road climbs to get to descents), and the first two times i went out on it i had to stop and rest or push multiple times and was thinking twice about my big new purchase. After 4 rides, i was back to being able to ride up with no stops (barely). After a 3 weeks, i was riding up at the same perceived effort level as before.

    Point is, your body will acclimate to the effort required to go uphill. The bike will never acclimate to the geometry and suspension you want to ride downhill.

  14. #64
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    Sep 2012
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    Tahoe
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    https://youtu.be/jrddRIk6_n0


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  15. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    959
    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    Get a trail bike that you mesh well with going downhill. The uphill will take care of itself. Its amazing how fast your fitness will improve if forced to.



    Point is, your body will acclimate to the effort required to go uphill. The bike will never acclimate to the geometry and suspension you want to ride downhill.
    This may be true, until you reach a certain age. Then you start looking for every edge you can find to get yourself uphill, and figure your slowly diminishing skills will get you down.

  16. #66
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    Dec 2007
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    Hell Track
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    Quote Originally Posted by panchosdad View Post
    This may be true, until you reach a certain age. Then you start looking for every edge you can find to get yourself uphill, and figure your slowly diminishing skills will get you down.
    I've heard that when you get your first social security check, you're automatically issued an ebike.

  17. #67
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    Dec 2010
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    819
    Quote Originally Posted by panchosdad View Post
    This may be true, until you reach a certain age. Then you start looking for every edge you can find to get yourself uphill, and figure your slowly diminishing skills will get you down.
    I feel like that is a really old age though. I see a bunch of older (50-60) year old folks in incredible cardio shape, and while they do rip on the downhills as well, i would think they would prefer their proverbial "cushion" geared toward the descending where forgiveness is health inducing haha.

    I guess my point is that it is much more common for an older person to still have a big engine, but much less common for them to have great strength, reactions, and resiliency. so i would think they would handicap their ups for a safer more fun down. IDK.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    I feel like that is a really old age though. I see a bunch of older (50-60) year old folks in incredible cardio shape, and while they do rip on the downhills as well, i would think they would prefer their proverbial "cushion" geared toward the descending where forgiveness is health inducing haha.

    I guess my point is that it is much more common for an older person to still have a big engine, but much less common for them to have great strength, reactions, and resiliency. so i would think they would handicap their ups for a safer more fun down. IDK.
    Just another reason to pickup the Firebird 29: fine going uphill, no reaction time needed going down!


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    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    No thanks. I'll stick with porn. - Benny

  19. #69
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    Sep 2009
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    in the trench
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    I feel like that is a really old age though. I see a bunch of older (50-60) year old folks in incredible cardio shape, and while they do rip on the downhills as well, i would think they would prefer their proverbial "cushion" geared toward the descending where forgiveness is health inducing haha.

    I guess my point is that it is much more common for an older person to still have a big engine, but much less common for them to have great strength, reactions, and resiliency. so i would think they would handicap their ups for a safer more fun down. IDK.
    Thatís my theory . Self preservation on the downs and still be playful with the stiff ol bones. Just put some easier gearing for the up

  20. #70
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    Sep 2012
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    Anyone else been on both the 2018 Patrol and 2018 Process 153 27.5?


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  21. #71
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    Jan 2008
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    out there on the neon avenue
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    coming off an XL Evil Following to the XL aluminum Sentinel, I am having way more fun on the Sentinel. It took a bit to get the nose to go where I wanted on tight steep climbs but its fine now and the downhill couldn't be more fun.

  22. #72
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    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    Anyone else been on both the 2018 Patrol and 2018 Process 153 27.5?
    Yes. I thought they were more similar than different. Descending the Kona feels a little more planted and just wants to truck through stuff, whereas the Patrol is more poppy and playful and wants to boost off everything (while still being plenty stable).

    Climbing I thought the Process felt like it had a fair amount of pedal bob and the 2018 $5k build didn't have a shock with a "trail" mode (open mode was too open and climb mode was too stiff). The 2019 comes with an RCT shock which should help. I thought the Patrol climbed a little better overall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  23. #73
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    I pulled the trigger on a Smuggler almost two years after starting this thread. Still have never ridden one so hopefully I like it. LBS had a 2019 X01 demo on sale for cheap enough that I felt like I couldn't pass it up.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I pulled the trigger on a Smuggler almost two years after starting this thread. Still have never ridden one so hopefully I like it. LBS had a 2019 X01 demo on sale for cheap enough that I felt like I couldn't pass it up.
    You will like it. I have 450mi now on my Patrol and the thing fkn crushes. Super happy with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    2,756
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    You will like it. I have 450mi now on my Patrol and the thing fkn crushes. Super happy with it.
    Tell me more about Patrol, high on my list to replace sb5.5, progressive? Some people said hard to run an x2? 2.8 clearance?

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