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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Isn't that kind of like praising them before you try them?


    Attachment 211407
    Haha! Yes. Yes it is.


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  2. #27
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    Jun 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by D(C) View Post
    Keeping the stack height reasonable is key as well
    .
    The stack is pretty stacked on that BA. is slamming the stem enough for you?

  3. #28
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by xyz View Post
    The stack is pretty stacked on that BA. is slamming the stem enough for you?
    I don't find. The bike is designed around a 160 fork and I'm running a 150. With Atlas low-rise bars, I actually need to run a couple spacers under the stem to get the bars in a similar place as my 160 mm full-suspension 27.5.

    The old Rootdown (non-BA), however, felt quite tall in front, from the brief time I pedalled my buddy's around.

  4. #29
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    Jun 2004
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    The stack on my ti honzo, w/ 130 mm fork and slammed stem just doesn't put me where I want to be for climbing. Either going to a 120 mm fork or sell in the frame. Was looking at the BA for a hardtail but the stack is pretty high too. I need to pedal one around the chromag parking lot to be sure.

    My hei hei stack of 615 mm (large) is perfect.




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  5. #30
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    Oct 2003
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    Anybody with ride time on the new models have input? A year ago I was mostly interested in the Scout but I'm leaning towards the Smuggler now. Not that I'm in the market for a new bike, more just dreaming since my bike is out of commission for the next two weeks.

  6. #31
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    Dec 2007
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    Hell Track
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    I haven't ridden the new transitions, but have a buddy with a sentinel who previously had the first generation smuggler. He's pretty psyched on the sentinel, and definitely rides it on "normal" trails.

    As a second reference point, I have a trek slash, and I measure the head angle to be about 64.5, so pretty similar to the transitions, although it doesn't have the reduced offset fork. I regularly do decent length / vert trail rides on it. And yeah, it feels like a big bike and the front end is wandery on steep climbs. But it's all pretty manageable. In other words, it's about what you'd expect, and it kills it on the descents, but I wouldn't really call it a well rounded ride.

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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    I test drove a 2018 Patrol. Pretty standard Front Range ride, 2k climb/descent on fairly technical, rocky singletrack. Little bit of everything.

    I don't have a ton of time on different bikes. So I'm not going to claim that I know much about different bikes. I currently ride a heavily modified 2013 Giant Reign with children's wheel size, have also been on a 2015ish Pivot Mach 6 for a full ride and brief stints on newer Yeti SB6, Kona Process, and Specialized Enduro, and one day on a DH sled lift-served.

    However I REALLY liked the Patrol. If I didn't know that it was a 64* HT before the ride, and somebody told me at the top of the climb, I would have said they were full of shit. The steep ST angle definitely does it's job getting your weight on the front tire. I felt like it tracked just fine at low speeds and I didn't have any issue getting it through precise technical spots going up, or around tight switchbacks going up or down. If anything the front felt more planted than my bike. My two complaints climbing were 1) the aluminum Patrol is heavy as fuck and 2) the suspension is fairly active when pedaling, so using the settings on the shock was pretty helpful to make it more efficient. I did also have to watch for pedal strikes a bit more than I'm used to. The Mach 6 was quite a bit more efficient climbing, I thought.

    Going down is amazing on the Patrol. What I really liked about it was it had all the stability you'd expect from a 64* HT bike, but it didn't feel like a tank at all. It was super happy to pop off everything in sight and very playful. It was very confidence inspiring when cornering. By contrast the front end of the Mach 6 wasn't as stable, but the rear end just stayed locked in a line and had very little pop or playful characteristics.

    I probably should ride more bikes to compare but I thought the geometry worked as advertised. I probably would have already purchased one if a carbon version was currently available.
    Last edited by adrenalated; 07-05-2018 at 09:17 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  8. #33
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    Sep 2009
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    Iíd like to try one. Iíve slackened my scout to a 65.5 ha and have my rune at 64. The longer tt, steep SA and shorty stem all help a bit. 65 is about the limit for no probs. Front wheel wonders a touch but quite controllable. 65/65.5 seems to be the sweet spot with traditional fork offset, for me. My rune at 64 gives some issues when the climbing is technical, especially around corners the wheel l flops easier. Rune is now mostly my fireroad climber to dh trails. 64 with trad offset wouldnít be my daily driver. Sounds reasonable that those new offsets would make 64 capable. Watching ďcounts customsĒ they rave about the ďsugar bear ď front ends on choppers helping them turn around in tighter spaces and ride much more controllable, and they do basically the same thing as these new mtb fork offsets. Curious if thatís where transition came up with the idea

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    PNWet
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    I have an Ď18 Sentinel, I love it but thatís probably to be expected given that Iím coming from an Ď03 S.C. Blur and an Ď04 S.C. VP Free. When I demoed the bike I had big plans to ride a bunch of different stuff. 2 hours later I was back at the shop trying to buy one on the spot.

    If I was to criticize the bike it would be that hairpin turns are a bit tricky, and itís a heavy pig. I am fat and slow though, and uphill has never been a priority.

    The thing I like best is that it is just stupid fun going down. Feels as capable as a downhill bike and you can actually pedal it to the top. Easily the most fun Iíve ever had on a bike!

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    The bottom of LCC
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    5,118
    I've had a Sentinel since last fall. Really like it. Obviously does everything really well when pointed down. Surprisingly it's the best climbing bike I've owned (coming off a carbon scout, had an endorphin and a blur LT before that). The steeper and chunkier the climb, the better it does. If you have to ride some flat pedal'y stuff it handles that fine but it's not it's forte.

    The only downside I've found is the weight. I've got an aluminum one. It's around 34 lbs with pretty stout tires and a decent build.

  11. #36
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    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    My rune at 64 gives some issues when the climbing is technical, especially around corners the wheel l flops easier...64 with trad offset wouldn’t be my daily driver. Sounds reasonable that those new offsets would make 64 capable.
    So, I'm not sure I can particularly identify wheel flop, as I'm not sure I've ever really felt it, although I understand the concept. I don't quite understand why the reduced offset helps combat flop; in theory, it shouldn't. But the ride I did on the Patrol had a number of slow switchbacks both up and down and I just never felt like the bike had any trouble arcing smoothly around the corner exactly how I wanted it to. It was better than my bike, which feels imprecise and requires a lot of steering corrections on switchbacks.

    I'm not a bike geometry wiz and can't really explain why it works, I just know it was a non-issue riding it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    So, I'm not sure I can particularly identify wheel flop, as I'm not sure I've ever really felt it, although I understand the concept. I don't quite understand why the reduced offset helps combat flop; in theory, it shouldn't. But the ride I did on the Patrol had a number of slow switchbacks both up and down and I just never felt like the bike had any trouble arcing smoothly around the corner exactly how I wanted it to. It was better than my bike, which feels imprecise and requires a lot of steering corrections on switchbacks.

    I'm not a bike geometry wiz and can't really explain why it works, I just know it was a non-issue riding it.
    Thatís probably a good thing. I think youíd feel it/struggle if it was there.
    Think of it in extremes. If it was a super crazy chopped out Harley as opposed to a super steep road bike head angle. Let go of the bars on the Harley and the wheel will just fall over. The road bike wheel would better be described as pivoting to turn. The shorter offset allows you to keep the slower steering the 64 ha gives but it isnít as apt to flop when your at your balancing limit climbing tech up around a switchback. I think thatís the theory . How much the offset accounts for taming the flop is my curiosity . I just happen to have a couple test mules on or just below my preferred HA I switch back and forth between . Iíd like to add the reduced offset into the equation now. Rune with the 64 ha is so capable on the downs now, itíd be nice to have it handle like it did at 65 for general trail riding

  13. #38
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    Apr 2004
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    Slight thread drift - I just put a new (much longer travel) fork on my ht and between the crown and dropouts the difference in offset is pretty significant, at least 1cm, but AC is the same. Slow switchbacks and general slow tight moves I'm getting pretty significant flop and it sends me to the inside of the turn. Is there an easy solution? I have 20mm of spacers under the stem so have some room to play with dropping that down and have plenty of room on the seat rails to move myself forward but I'm loving the railed corner feeling at higher speeds.

  14. #39
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    Dec 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    Anybody with ride time on the new models have input? A year ago I was mostly interested in the Scout but I'm leaning towards the Smuggler now. Not that I'm in the market for a new bike, more just dreaming since my bike is out of commission for the next two weeks.
    I rode the Scout in SC and really liked the way it handled on the up and downs.
    Honestly, I may not be the best critic though. I've loved every bike I've ridden lately from Stumpy, Enduro, this Scout, and I own a Hightower. New bikes rock!

  15. #40
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    Sep 2010
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    Cascades
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    Just found this thread...interesting!

    Iím pretty new to mtn biking and I still suck but Iíve demoed a ton of bikes recently in an effort to find a new modern bike.

    5í11Ē and have been trying bikes mostly in size large. Iím preferring 29ers in general, but I did ride a Large 2018 Scout and had a blast. Few weeks later rode a large 2018 carbon Smuggler and while it climbed great, it felt like so much bike on the way down. It was certainly taking me for a ride more than anything. Sucker wants to fuckin run!
    So Iím confused...smuggler feels too slack and long but same year scout doesnít?

  16. #41
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    Aug 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleT View Post
    Just found this thread...interesting!

    Iím pretty new to mtn biking and I still suck but Iíve demoed a ton of bikes recently in an effort to find a new modern bike.

    5í11Ē and have been trying bikes mostly in size large. Iím preferring 29ers in general, but I did ride a Large 2018 Scout and had a blast. Few weeks later rode a large 2018 carbon Smuggler and while it climbed great, it felt like so much bike on the way down. It was certainly taking me for a ride more than anything. Sucker wants to fuckin run!
    So Iím confused...smuggler feels too slack and long but same year scout doesnít?
    I'm in the same boat as you and I've demoed a few bikes so far. Maybe you should take a medium Smuggler out for a spin too see how it feels? I tried a large Smuggler and loved it. It's a super fun bike. I liked it a lot more than the medium Scout I rode before it.

  17. #42
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    Aug 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopi_Red View Post
    I'm in the same boat as you and I've demoed a few bikes so far. Maybe you should take a medium Smuggler out for a spin too see how it feels? I tried a large Smuggler and loved it. It's a super fun bike. I liked it a lot more than the medium Scout I rode before it.
    Noob

  18. #43
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    Aug 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by NW_SKIER View Post
    Noob
    Says the guy who just got into MTBing a year and a half ago...

  19. #44
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    Oct 2003
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    Local bike shop has no large smugglers for me to demo. For this I am thankful.


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  20. #45
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    Jun 2008
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    Big Sky
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    Update:

    Been riding the Sentinel since May. Iím chugging the SBG koolaid.


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  21. #46
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    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Slight thread drift - I just put a new (much longer travel) fork on my ht and between the crown and dropouts the difference in offset is pretty significant, at least 1cm, but AC is the same. Slow switchbacks and general slow tight moves I'm getting pretty significant flop and it sends me to the inside of the turn. Is there an easy solution? I have 20mm of spacers under the stem so have some room to play with dropping that down and have plenty of room on the seat rails to move myself forward but I'm loving the railed corner feeling at higher speeds.
    You may have already exhausted the options but shorter stem, slide the seat a little forward, and wider bars all can help. You lose reach with the seat sliding and shorter stem but the wider bars give you some reach back. Possible to do a little adjust at each one of those without any negative. I prefer low 30’s mm stems, but some don’t like them for some reason. It will help control wheel flop. Wider bar will get the reach back at a 2 to 1 ratio(20mm additional bar length and 10mm off the stem give you roughly the same reach). If that makes the bar wider on the downs than your preference you can adjust your hands in a bit. Wider bar has been the singlespeeders climbing secret/necessity before the wide bars where all the rage because of their added leverage for climbing. You may want to start with just sliding the seat forward in the rails as it’s free. It’ll both help the climbing at put you over the front a bit more on the climb so you’ll get that seated traction and control the steering easier. On the down the seat will be out of the way as well. That’s what I’m doing today. I’m at about a 75 degree seat angle but I’d like to try it a bit steeper and I’m probably going to add 10mm travel to my fork so that should even things out

  22. #47
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    You may have already exhausted the options but shorter stem, slide the seat a little forward, and wider bars all can help. You lose reach with the seat sliding and shorter stem but the wider bars give you some reach back. Possible to do a little adjust at each one of those without any negative. I prefer low 30ís mm stems, but some donít like them for some reason. It will help control wheel flop. Wider bar will get the reach back at a 2 to 1 ratio(20mm additional bar length and 10mm off the stem give you roughly the same reach). If that makes the bar wider on the downs than your preference you can adjust your hands in a bit. Wider bar has been the singlespeeders climbing secret/necessity before the wide bars where all the rage because of their added leverage for climbing. You may want to start with just sliding the seat forward in the rails as itís free. Itíll both help the climbing at put you over the front a bit more on the climb so youíll get that seated traction and control the steering easier. On the down the seat will be out of the way as well. Thatís what Iím doing today. Iím at about a 75 degree seat angle but Iíd like to try it a bit steeper and Iím probably going to add 10mm travel to my fork so that should even things out
    If you're falling to the inside, move your butt to the outside of the turn, this will lead the bike. Also, bend your outside elbow, which will get your weight to the outside and again, lean the bike.

    Your bike is not too slack.

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  23. #48
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    Sep 2012
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    I picked up the Sentinel NX last week on sale. Iím loving it, itís the best pedaling bike Iíve ever owned. I could go out all day on it no problem. On the downhill sections, itís pretty damn fast. I bet I could ride park with it, and only feel out of place on the gnarliest trails. Itís not too cushy, not too progressive, Transitions version of horst link feels really well balanced and provides a boatload of traction both up and down. The term Iím about to use is overused, but it sincerely climbs like a billy goat up techy steep climbs.

    Iím 6í2Ē, 34Ē inseam, 77Ē reach, and ride the Large frame. Some people recommended XL, but I rode both and prefer the Large. Itís a big bike, the wheelbase is almost the same as modern DH bikes.

    The smuggler was amazing too. If you dont need or want a big bike, the smuggler is the way to go. I would feel better sizing up to the XL on the Smuggler, more so than on the bigger Sentinel.


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  24. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    SLCizzy
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    I fucking love my Snuggler.

    I bought a medium carbon this spring. Iím right in between sizes, but have regretted going large on my last 2 frames before I got a used medium pre-sbg Patrol Al last year. I just have way more fun on medium bikes and most geo has finally caught up.
    I did swap the 40mm stem I started with for a 50mm. The fit, steering and balance of the bike improved significantly.
    Longer frames and shorter stems is not always the answer.


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  25. #50
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    Sep 2012
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    Tahoe
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    Even though these bikes are super long, sizing up didnt feel nearly as bad as it looked on paper. I could have gone either way honestly, neither was ďtoo bigĒ nor ďtoo smallĒ. Transitions size chart is on the money IMO.


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