Hell's up with the US Navy? Another ship collision. 10 sailors missing.

[DougW]

In crowded airspace, aircraft are actively managed into traffic patters by ground controllers.

This doesn't happen in busy sea lanes.

Actually, in uncrowded airspace, the aircraft are still controlled by ground controllers. Only Class G airspace which is a thin layer of airpspace near the ground are aircraft not under ATC control. That is why 78% of midairs happen around small towerless airports in class G airspace.

Oh yea... and aircraft can maneuver in 3D to avoid a collision.

Oh also, aircraft have TCAS which is a collision alarm system that operates off their transponders.

but in a crowded area at night the whole blind passage team would be closed up , the whole ops room manned the captain on bridge , the radars flashed up ... or should have been

[highangle]

but in a crowded area at night the whole blind passage team would be closed up , the whole ops room manned the captain on bridge , the radars flashed up ... or should have been

And in a tight passage, a couple junior officers sweating bullets manually updating an old school DR plot off those olschool radar ranges and compass bearings as fast as they can. Naval tradition (and good if the electronics get shot up, or the servers crash).

What's also going to happen is the tanker is going to make a point of getting on VHF16 and hailing any vessel that comes within X distance of its own radar. Even in a long lineup like Hormuz or Gatun, a vessel that is not keeping station will get hailed and the Colregs will be discussed pointedly. I can't believe the tanker didn't see the McCain stop short and hail them.

[Meathelmet]

From looking at the damage on the left side our ship may have had the right of way this time.

I dont have Gills..but.

The larger and less maneuverable ship has "always" right of way. By good seamanship, all ships perceiving acute danger are required to take action as well but loaded tanker vs. destroyer should not leave any doubt who is to blame.

It was quite sobering to read up on sequence (the info available) leading up to the Fitzgerald crash, absolutely baffling how that incident could happen.
And now, 4 weeks later a similar thing happening within 7th fleet...that is just beyond any comprehension.
I would be surprised if not the whole pacific admiralty would not get purged to the top, taking into account that the pacific fleet should be the one under the most intense development & scrutiny due to the shift to the east to counter China?

[summit]

The USN seems only slightly more forgiving than SAC was in the LeMay days.

[Meathelmet]

The USN seems only slightly more forgiving than SAC was in the LeMay days.

The question remains, how top heavy will that tree look after a slight čístka...oh, sorry, pruning!

[iceman]

Well if the purge stops short of the top it will have missed its mark, so hopefully it will be no more topheavy than it is now, at least we can hope.

[old goat]

And in a tight passage, a couple junior officers sweating bullets manually updating an old school DR plot off those olschool radar ranges and compass bearings as fast as they can. Naval tradition (and good if the electronics get shot up, or the servers crash).

What's also going to happen is the tanker is going to make a point of getting on VHF16 and hailing any vessel that comes within X distance of its own radar. Even in a long lineup like Hormuz or Gatun, a vessel that is not keeping station will get hailed and the Colregs will be discussed pointedly. I can't believe the tanker didn't see the McCain stop short and hail them.

On a remotely related note--I took a tour of an Aegis frigate. Crammed with electronics, about a dozen antennas of various sorts. As someone with no naval experience what caught my attention were the signal flags (most secure way to communicate for ships within sight of each other as the officer explained) and the ax on the bridge to smash the electronics with in the event of capture or abandon ship. Sorry, no maul. (I did work with signal flags before sailboat races at summer camp; must count for something.)

Someone can explain to me--don't big ocean going ships sometimes go on autopilot at times, no one on watch. I would assume not in a crowded place like that but then people don't always follow the rules, and when you're that big maybe you assume everyone else will get out of your way.

[mall walker]

[frorider]

Navy morale has been going down. Survey articles I've seen point to longer tours of duty, declining confidence in future pension strength. understandable, if somewhat self-focused, concerns.

Pentagon knows that morale overall is strongly affected by whether the sacrifice feels worth the gains. The situation in Afghanistan is, like our other engagements, inherently frustrating.

[snoqpass]

I still work in the service of our nation and have watched morale decline badly in recent years in both civilian and service sectors, it has nothing to do phobia of anything. The readiness of the military is at an all time low. The abilities of the individual sailor, soldier, marine and airman have kept the country protected but pool has become very dilute.

It pains me to see service people perish be it war or peace. Accidents do happen contrary to what some people think and yes that area of sea is very congested.

This country has been at war since before 9/11 but for most it is business as usual. Later today I will be back at the switch protecting your ungrateful asses, especially those of you so quick to use the F word and label others.

Enjoy your eclipse party people.

Nobody wants to deploy and be unsuccessful after sixteen years

[Pa. patroller]

You guys are all assuming that these "incidents" were not on purpose.
That is possible in today's world- I think so anyway.


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[wooley12]

Maybe the Gremlins learned to swim huh?

[Cono Este]

Blacks sailors were forced social engineering when they were moved up from being waiters in the officers mess. You should write your congressman. With all of the fake news about lefties disrespecting the military some were bound to believe it eventually. An all volunteer service has a downside. You should start a PA thread, Scotty.

Stay tuned. For the last collision, the pros on the site suggested too many steps from spotter to whee lman in the Navy and no way to communicate with civilian sailors.

http://gcaptain.com/uss-john-mccain-...ter-collision/

Yes, but black sailors now share the same shitter as whites and can't knock each other up.

But I see your point, we could re engineer everything on subs and throw out essential systems to make room for women's showers and of course day care.

There were limits even in the manhattan project. Get real people.

[wooley12]

I look at an opinion on the Fitzgerald for background.

http://gcaptain.com/uss-fitzgerald-fault/

[iceman]

But I see your point, we could re engineer everything on subs and throw out essential systems to make room for women's showers and of course day care.

Get real people.

Seems like you're the one who needs to get real my man. Come the fuck on.

[Cono Este]

Seems like you're the one who needs to get real my man. Come the fuck on.

I think woman are completely able to serve in combat. Put them in a jet and there is no difference. But throw out essential systems, re engineer everything where space is limited, is retarded. Go ask someone who ever served in combat if anyone would sacrifice that for social justice. And did I mention the fucking?

As far as combat infantry? Sure woman are capable of out performing men in many circumstances. I had a woman out place me in lifeguard school in SD. But she also did iron mans. The average female fire fighter is not picking you up and carrying you out of your house. And did I mention the fucking instead of fighting 18!yr olds do?

[wooley12]

Yes, but black sailors now share the same shitter as whites and can't knock each other up.

But I see your point, we could re engineer everything on subs and throw out essential systems to make room for women's showers and of course day care.

There were limits even in the manhattan project. Get real people.

They didn't put 6'4 guys as the tail gunner of a B-24 either. My point is that we seem to assume that every military service person needs to be fit to handle any MOS which can't be true. The problem comes with an ALL PRO armed forces. Which is a dangerous way to go to war if you want it to end. It's a subject that I'm interested in.


Besides, you are Cono Este so there's that.

[Cono Este]

They didn't put 6'4 guys as the tail gunner of a B-24 either. My point is that we seem to assume that every military service person needs to be fit to handle any MOS which can't be true. The problem comes with an ALL PRO armed forces. Which is a dangerous way to go to war if you want it to end. It's a subject that I'm interested in.


Besides, you are Cono Este so there's that.

Actually my grandad was 6'4" and a tail gunner on a Lancaster.

But Its about priorities, more food on the sub? Or put in a woman's bathroom? Plenty of logic that has nothing to do sexism.

But anyway, I would argue, we are long over due for a real war. I mean an ass kicking, oh shit moment, where every fucking ounce, every fucking inch can make a make defense.

Go read good book on Iwo Jima and tell me sending in women marines would have been a top priority at that time.

Are woman apart of the draft? Because I can on that issue with you.

[PB]

WTF is a "women's bathroom"??? A toilet and sink in a cramped cubicle works for either sex. No self respecting male is getting all hot and bothered because some women is stinking' up the sub with a burrito dump. EVERYBODY SITS. shits, too.

[Harry]

As everyone knows, I was an officer in the Navy. Prior to my tour in the Special Boat Squadron, I did a tour on a destroyer. I have transited the Straits of Malacca a shitload of times, as well as the Straits of Hormuz. The Straits of Malacca are very difficult, lots of traffic moving all different directions at all different speeds. That said, the Captain will lose his job, as well as several junior officers. No excuse for this to happen.

[wooley12]

I'd be interested to hear your take on that opinion in the gCaptain link I posted.

[frorider]

WTF is a "women's bathroom"??? A toilet and sink in a cramped cubicle works for either sex. No self respecting male is getting all hot and bothered because some women is stinking' up the sub with a burrito dump. EVERYBODY SITS. shits, too.

But what about the transgendered? Do they shit too? Oh noes.

[wooley12]

Actually my grandad was 6'4" and a tail gunner on a Lancaster.

Cool. My bad, I meant ball turret gunner. My uncle kept them flying with the 449th Bombardment Group at Grottaglie . My dad was with a medical unit on the Anzio beach head where a bunch of female Army nurses died doing a job that they were fit to do and could do it better than a man. I've heard that there is the right way, the wrong way, and the military way. I would hope that they could figure some way to handle the submarine potty problem and let the female special ops scout get intel from the female middle east ladies who won't/can't speak with strange men but might know who is making IED's. Been happening.

From what I have heard from those that have been in a real war with friends dying and guts flying, you don't want a real war. Worse than hell and this one has already come home.

[Viva]

That said, the Captain will lose his job, as well as several junior officers. No excuse for this to happen.

As this is the second such incident in a month, how might this effect senior leadership? Trends like this, in any organization, usually means that someone upstairs isn't getting the job done.

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[iceman]

Clearly it's a top-down problem. Effective action is hampered by obsessesive protection of the chain of command and fear of failure, an attitude that makes failure inevitable. Somebody saw the shit about to happen but they were frozen in place because of fear of the chain of command and that can only be straightened out with a big broom, imo.