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  1. #51
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    Dec 2014
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    Colorado Front Range
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    Finally! A definitive statement. They don't make it easy to verify this (not that I didn't trust Lindhal's assertion ).

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    1,010
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    How easy and quick is it to get the demo binder in and the fwd pressure set correctly?
    Lift this lever for toe
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Push down on this lever heel
    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
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    4,113
    Wonder how the 2017 Aaattack demos can be compatible with 9523 without sliding AFD's?

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Den/Baltimore
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    3,935
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Lift this lever for toe
    Push down on this lever heel
    Thanks for the photos. Are the numbers are accurate enough that you don't need to check the forward pressure?
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    meager stoke

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,573
    From memory - the rear heel has a gauge that it has to be within to signal proper rear pressure.

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.


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  6. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Den/Baltimore
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnwriter View Post
    From memory - the rear heel has a gauge that it has to be within to signal proper rear pressure.

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
    I would be surprised if it didn't have that. I'm just saying that clicking a boot in and checking the forward pressure every lap sounds pretty time consuming, and might require a friend to assist. If the numbers on the track are reliable enough to go off them without checking the actual fwd pressure every time, that would be ideal.
    Last edited by auvgeek; 08-21-2017 at 09:46 AM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    meager stoke

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,010
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Thanks for the photos. Are the numbers are accurate enough that you don't need to check the forward pressure?
    They also have the screwdriver tab at the back of the heel w/ the graduated scale. Just remember the #'s.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,573

    Robust Touring Rig in the Spirit of the Cast System

    What happened to the pics lindahl posted that had the boots in each bindings?

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,573

    Robust Touring Rig in the Spirit of the Cast System

    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    I would be surprised if it didn't have that. I'm just saying that clicking a boot in and checking the forward pressure every lap sounds pretty time consuming, and might require a friend to assist. If the numbers on the track are reliable enough to go off them without checking the actual fwd pressure every time, that would be ideal.
    This is a pretty unique project for my needs. It is for one place on the EC that is a long hike or skin on trails to the bottom of a cirque (tuckerman ravine). The area is steep enough that it's worth having a full alpine binding.

    There is time to gear up before hiking the bowl and you hike the whole time (as opposed to skinning each lap). I'd set the fwd pressure when I got to the staging area and it would be one time so not an inconvenience.

    So for me I just want there to be a tech toe to make them work for touring / skinning to the bowl.

    I don't think this is a good option at all for any kind of lapping where you'd have to get in and out several times.


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  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,573
    Bump


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  11. #61
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    146
    Owner of multiple pairs of Attack demos.
    1) If you get the heel and toe piece set correctly, [for the right bsl] forward pressure is going to be good.
    Literally 15s to set the heels and toes for a new BSL. [If you're not changing DIN, which you wouldn't in this case.]

    Even in the event #1 wasn't true...
    2) The back-pressure gauge is simple to look at. Unless you're nearly blind you could stomp in and know nearly instantly if you're in range with back-pressure. [I do this ALL THE TIME, as I share skis a lot. One day last year we must have done more than a dozen ski swaps between 6-8 of us, trying a whole range of skis. Not all were Attacks, but many were.] You won't need help. You can see it easily from a standing-in-the-binding position.

    Edited to add:

    @galibier_numero_un "I wonder if gloves have to come off to actuate the lock (thinkin' real nasty conditions)."

    Yeah, probably. At least on the heel. That lever isn't super easy to get ahold of with gloves.

    I don't know how I missed this thread. I'd be totally interested.
    Lateral release is a pretty big deal for me. [victim of spiral fracture of tib+fib a couple of years ago, and certainly wanting to avoid a repeat. Not that a tech binding was the cause - but still.]

    Putting the tech toe on the Attack rail appeals to me the most and would avoid cutting the rail.
    Super super cool idea.

    -Greg
    Last edited by gregorys; 10-10-2017 at 09:17 PM.

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    146
    Well, that's a bummer.
    The Kingpin demo toe rail and that Attack demo toe rail are _really_ similar. But sadly the kingpin toe won't slid on the Attack rail, or vice-versa. [I was thinking about it, and realized how similar they were, and thought to myself; "That couldn't work, could it!?!" And yes, it was too good to be true. <sigh>]

    So, in case someone thinks of it too; Nope- that won't work.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,573

    Robust Touring Rig in the Spirit of the Cast System

    In my mind if you have kingpins and aren't a full on crazy mofo they would be fine on their own. To me, a dynafit (or like) light toe for touring is fine. If you had kingpins just use them entirely rather than fuckin around with removal etc.

    IMO Does not compute with this idea.


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    Last edited by mtnwriter; 10-11-2017 at 08:50 AM.

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    146
    @mtnwriter

    As is clear with Cast, some people would rather ski alpine bindings on the down, for a variety of reasons.

    A big one for me is lateral release at the toe.

    Vipecs laterally release, but have pins at the heel.
    Kingpins have a great heel, but no lateral release.
    +Elasticity on tech bindings simply isn't going to be nearly as good as an alpine binding.

    But I'm pretty sure you already knew all that. It's fine you think this idea is way too fiddly and garbage. I think it's rather interesting.

    And as long as we're wishing:
    ++Alpine bindings that laterally release at the heel [like Knee bindings] - in mainstream alpine bindings; and maybe a pony.
    [My guess is - that's not going to happen for a long time - kinda like SawStop on table saws.]

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Golden/Breckenridge
    Posts
    5,235
    A superlite toe with a couple of empty plates is also a pound and a quarter less per foot on the uphill

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    323
    Would people be interested in a toe and heel swappable plate system for Ions and Pivot 14’s? Im hesitant to post this idea as it may be a while before I complete the proto’s. Or just a tech toe and a heel plate with bails. Both of which would slide out for alpine bindings on the way down.


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  17. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    4,113
    Looking into this more, the 2018 demo has significantly more stack height and a plastic heel track instead of the 2017's metal track. The taller stack isn't necessarily a bad thing though, it creates more clearance for heel lifters. Also, the brakes come off with the heel piece on the 2018, while the brakes stay on the heel track on the 2017 and would have to be rubber-banded. Also looks like the new 2018 toe is pretty trick, with longer wing travel and a more adjustable AFD, plus the AFD slides.

    If someone happens to be a machinist, would be pretty trick to have heel lifters that slide into or onto the heel track, though that would require a tech toe adapter that slides onto the toe track, otherwise the toe would be too far forward for the boot to reach the lifters.
    FS: NIB G3 Ion Crampons, all widths
    FS: 1/4" Toe Shims for G3 Ion, aluminum

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    244
    Whoa. This is dope. L9 is selling them for $159 - a steal too!

    So basically the new Attack2 Demo are MNC certified (the non-demos are only GW and Alpine I believe).

    So if you build a little adapter for the front slider plate you could stick on some tech toes. And as stated above, build a rear adapter for a heel lifter.

    Transitions are definitely longer but basically this gives you a pretty ultimate 1-ski quiver type binding setup.

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    4,113
    I don't see anywhere selling the 2018 version yet, looks like the toe is a pretty big upgrade. A shop told me that something like 60% of the 2017 toes fail DIN testing (they test 2 settings higher than the indicator) and have to be returned to Tyrolia.
    FS: NIB G3 Ion Crampons, all widths
    FS: 1/4" Toe Shims for G3 Ion, aluminum

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    244
    Oops you're right, was just confused by the description on L9's site for the 2017 Demos:

    "Mechanical adjustment of the toe's gliding element (AFS) and automatic adjustment of the heel allow adaptation to both alpine and touring boot sole norms."

    EDIT: Also looks like it is available here. https://www.untracked.com/p6253c81b5...ml#chsku550709

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    15
    Interesting. This could be a great idea...points for creativity.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,573
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    A shop told me that something like 60% of the 2017 toes fail DIN testing (they test 2 settings higher than the indicator) and have to be returned to Tyrolia.
    That's only one place but woah.

    I got some kingpins and from what it sounds like they'll be fine for my requirements.

    Definitely interested to see where this goes though.


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  23. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    146
    Here's my thought: 3D print an adapter that will slide on the rails, and can accept a bolt-on tech toe-piece.

    I have no idea how to handle heel risers, but I'd guess something similar - a piece that will slide on the rail and latch with some crude lifters.

    The question are: Is a 3d printed part strong enough. It's only for climbing. [And how expensive would a 3D printed part be.]
    And could we get a 3d-part [solid-edge etc] of the rail from Tyrolia?
    Anyone know someone at Tyrolia?

    Any place I could get a set of the new demo Attack 18's cheapish?

    -Greg

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    244

    Robust Touring Rig in the Spirit of the Cast System

    3D parts aren't too expensive but you're still probably talking >$100 for powder-based on shapeways. I'm not sure a low end 3D wire-based part would be burly enough. I think the other question is whether the plastic gets too brittle at low temperatures. I think the more difficult part would be sorting out the latching mechanism. I'm not familiar with the work drive on the Attacks, but that would probably be tough to get right.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    4,113
    So I did some comparing and it looks like you could mount a Plum toe on the front of the toe rail via tapped holes in the baseplate, if the crampon slot is cut off the toe. Would prefer more threads, but it might be enough. Could have stainless M5 nuts tack welded to the baseplate to give it a little extra, and put an aluminum spacer in there to keep the screws from pulling down on the middle of the tech toe (it bridges across the baseplate rails).

    The weight is no joke though, Tyrolia demo bindings are not light. If you weigh the toe and heel/brake baseplates + Plum toe, you're over 700g per ski. (Meaning the Tyrolia toe and heel are in your pack.) So not a whole lot lighter than Marker F10's, which actually ski decently.

    Don't know how much lighter the 2018 model would be, since it has a plastic heel plate and the brakes come off with the heel (making it more difficult to pack though).
    FS: NIB G3 Ion Crampons, all widths
    FS: 1/4" Toe Shims for G3 Ion, aluminum

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