35-45 L touring pack under 1 KG - does it exist?

[Va Ki Bo]

[LeoK]

WOW count me in on this one. I like the Alpha FL 45 so much for alpine climbing but for carrying skis it is really far from ideal. I would love to see the suspension of the Voltaire on it. By far the most comfortable for my fit on any pack ever carried by me.

[hafjell]

I'm thinking of adding some loops for a probe and shovel handle, and maybe a sleeve or guide for the shovel blade in a Patagonia Ascensionist 25L. You think any good local tailor could handle the job?
Also, planning on strapping the skis to the back of the pack vertically, not a-frame. Bad idea?

[viglio]

The only major issue/s you run into with vertical vs a-frame carry is that the load tends to be less balanced for long carries. Not a big deal for short booters, but if you're hauling a lot of gear and climbing long and steep or technical stuff, the displacement from a vertical or diagonal carry can get uncomfortable and unwieldy.

[Va Ki Bo]

I'm thinking of adding some loops for a probe and shovel handle...

Used Ascensionist 25 for two seasons as a main day pack for touring, also added simple sleeves for shovel handle and probe (found loops very inconvenient if you have to reinsert the probe/handle into the pack full of stuff) and use shovel blade as back structure of the pack, actually k2.rescue.shovel blade fits perfectly for that purpose, just add some bungee loop to lock the blade from diving down to the bottom of the pack. Locked blade (close to the back) and probe/handle (on the sides of the pack) create pretty good structure and stay calm even if skiing with empty pack.

Tried diff ski carring mods, and A-frame was the worst for Ascensionist. For skis+boots.in.the.bindings - vertical/diagonal on the facade of the pack. For skis only - skimo style shoulder hook and loop works the best. YMMV e.g. for lighter skis setup.

(Will add some pics later)

[hafjell]

The only major issue/s you run into with vertical vs a-frame carry is that the load tends to be less balanced for long carries. Not a big deal for short booters, but if you're hauling a lot of gear and climbing long and steep or technical stuff, the displacement from a vertical or diagonal carry can get uncomfortable and unwieldy.

Thanks for the tip. I've never tried vertical carry. I was a late convert to diagonal carry and couldn't believe how much more comfortable it was than A-frame. In moving from a 35L to a 25L, the pack will be stuffed to the gills, and, I'm hoping, help keep the skis from swinging. Only one way to find out.

[hafjell]

Used Ascensionist 25 for two seasons as a main day pack for touring, also added simple sleeves for shovel handle and probe (found loops very inconvenient if you have to reinsert the probe/handle into the pack full of stuff) and use shovel blade as back structure of the pack, actually k2.rescue.shovel blade fits perfectly for that purpose, just add some bungee loop to lock the blade from diving down to the bottom of the pack. Locked blade (close to the back) and probe/handle (on the sides of the pack) create pretty good structure and stay calm even if skiing with empty pack.

Tried diff ski carring mods, and A-frame was the worst for Ascensionist. For skis+boots.in.the.bindings - vertical/diagonal on the facade of the pack. For skis only - skimo style shoulder hook and loop works the best. YMMV e.g. for lighter skis setup.

(Will add some pics later)

Thanks for the advice. Where'd you source the material for the sleeves, and who did the stitching? I think this is what I want. And if it worked, could just be templated for the 30L and 40L packs. Looking forward to seeing the pics.

[Va Ki Bo]

Sleeves for shovel handle and probe.
(pics of the pack turned inside out)







For material I would recommend something burly and PU coated to protect stuff from sharp metal edges and moisture
(but pretty lightweight fabric works + duck tape and seamgrip for every other hole).
Also be sure to keep probe/handle "suspended" in the sleeves and not touching the bottom of the pack
as they prone to rub and tear lightweight Ascensionist fabric.
All the stitching is simple but placed on the existing seams contour.

For shovel blade - bungee cord and some retrofitted old backpack belt plastic thing anchored at the top of the back panel (and cut of rope sheath to protect bungee from metal edge). Hard to explain but you can see it on the pictures.







That way the shovel blade sits tight, do not dive deep into the pack and pretty easy to remove and insert with fully loaded pack
(the remaining problem is the lack of snow and moisture protection of the internals). Also it creates hard structure to the pack and
kind of back protection, at least protect from the hard and uneven pieces in your pack.
But not sure how it will work with other shapes of the shovel blade.

"Ski-mo" ski carrying system.







Anchor it to the waist belt, close to your body and (not on the pack's facade),
that way skis sit better with empty/loosely stuffed pack.
With tight fully stuffed pack the anchor loop on the facade panel works OK.



Also found pretty good use for old BCA Alpine Trekkers ankle straps, that fit nicely (same color!)
for rope, A-framed skis, or just-in-case compression, etc.
The same thing works with Exped Serac (and definitely will work with Exped Black Ice and Arcteryx Alpha FL 45).

[rob stokes]

Awesome! What did you make the hook from?

[hafjell]

Awesome! What did you make the hook from?

And, does anyone sell them pre-made? Looks like skimo co does not.

Really slick, VKB. Have you weighed the pack after the mods?

[Va Ki Bo]

Awesome! What did you make the hook from?

Metal wire (steel I think), not too stiff but there is no need for very stiff hook actually, the main load is on the bottom loop.
Just used this photo as a template (don't remember exact link)

And, does anyone sell them pre-made? Looks like skimo co does not.
Really slick, VKB. Have you weighed the pack after the mods?

Weighted just right now, 615 g total (including everything for shovel/probe, ski hook/loop and Alpine Trekker straps).

[LeoK]

I got all interested and googled around a bit -> here is the link: http://www.skintrack.com/gear-tech/h...ok-attachment/

[Practitioner]

In case anyone was interested, I tallied up the stated weights of the 30-45L skiing and alpine climbing packs that are under (or close to) 1 kg. I know its not super helpful as a lot of packs (the Ascensionist, HMG) strip down a bit, but thought I’d put it here to compare. Feel free to add to this list! All weights in grams.

Arcteryx FL 30 (technically 23L) - 575
Arcteryx FL 45 - 650
Exped Black Ice 30 - 670
Patagonia Ascensionist 30 - 700
Exped Serac 25 (included because it probably gets to 30) - 720
Exped Black Ice 45 - 740
Exped Serac 35 - 771
Exped Serac 45 - 810
Dynafit RC 35 - 825
BD Cirque 30 - 830
Patagonia Ascensionist 40 - 878
Patagonia Descensionist 40 - 947
Hyperlite Mountain Gear Ice Pack 2400 (40L) - 958
Salomon X-Alp 30 - 1000
BD Cirque 35 - 1030
BD Cirque 45 - 1060

[doebedoe]

In case anyone was interested, I tallied up the stated weights of the 30-45L skiing and alpine climbing packs that are under (or close to) 1 kg. I know its not super helpful as a lot of packs (the Ascensionist, HMG) strip down a bit, but thought I’d put it here to compare. Feel free to add to this list! All weights in grams.

Arcteryx FL 30 (technically 23L) - 575
Arcteryx FL 45 - 650
Exped Black Ice 30 - 670
Patagonia Ascensionist 30 - 700
Exped Serac 25 (included because it probably gets to 30) - 720
Exped Black Ice 45 - 740
Exped Serac 35 - 771
Exped Serac 45 - 810
Dynafit RC 35 - 825
BD Cirque 30 - 830
Patagonia Ascensionist 40 - 878
Patagonia Descensionist 40 - 947
Hyperlite Mountain Gear Ice Pack 2400 (40L) - 958
Salomon X-Alp 30 - 1000
BD Cirque 35 - 1030
BD Cirque 45 - 1060

Patagonia Descensionist (L/XL size) - 1040g (measure on scale, not mgf claim)

[hafjell]

Here's what I have, sorted by weight/size.

Piece	Maker	Model	Size	Weight/Size	Weight oz	Weight gm	Price
Packs	Dynafit	RC 20 DNA	20	12.00	8.47	240	$100.00
	Dynafit	RC 28	28	17.50	17.28	490	$139.95
	Exped	Serac	45	18.02	28.60	811	$198.95
	Camp	X3 600	30	21.33	22.60	640	$119.95
	Free Range	Raven	25	21.56	19.00	539	$184.00
	Hyperlight	2400 Porter	40	21.63	30.51	865	$300.00
	Patagonia	Asensionist	40	21.95	31.00	878	$179.00
	Exped	Serac	35	22.03	27.20	771	$189.00
	Alpine Threadworks	Selkirk Light	35	22.14	27.30	775	$200.00
	Alpine Threadworks	Selkirk Large	47	22.98	38.10	1080	$320.00
	Patagonia	Asensionist	30	23.33	24.70	700	$149.00
	Dynafit	RC 35	35	23.57	29.10	825	$140.00
	Patagonia	Descensionist 40	40	23.68	33.40	947	$199.00
	Camp	X3 Backdoor	30	25.03	26.49	751	$160.00
	Patagonia	Asensionist	35	25.91	32.00	907	$149.00
	Alpine Threadworks	Selkirk Std	37	27.57	35.98	1020	$300.00
	Salomon	X Alp 30	30	28.47	30.12	854	$175.00
	Ortovox	Ascent Tour 32	32	28.75	32.45	920	$160.00
	Exped	Serac	25	28.80	25.40	720	$178.95
	BD	Cirque	35	29.43	36.33	1030	$199.95
	Dynafit	Cho Oyu	35	30.26	37.40	1059	$179.00
	Ortovox	Tour Rider	30	30.67	32.45	920	$130.00
	Cilogear	40Z (w/o frame & pad)	41	31.22	45.15	1280	$285.00
	Cilogear	30Z	30	32.53	34.43	976	$189.00
	Salomon	QST 35	35	36.49	45.04	1277	$200.00
	Patagonia	Snowdrifter 30	30	36.87	39.01	1106	$169.00
	Dynafit	Chugach 32	32	38.75	43.70	1240	$189.95
	Arcteryx	Khamski	38	41.05	55.03	1560	$259.00
	Salomon	QST 30	30	41.33	43.74	1240	$175.00
	Ortovox	Haute Route	32	41.88	47.27	1340	$170.00
	Patagonia	Snowdrifter 40	40	45.35	64.00	1814	$199.00
	Cilogear	40Z	40	45.75	64.55	1830	$285.00
	Patagonia	Snowdrifter 20	20	47.60	33.60	952	$129.00
	Arcteryx	Khamski	31	48.39	52.91	1500	$239.00
	Ortovox	Free Rider 26 L	26	53.46	49.03	1390	$200.00
	Cilogear	3030Z		#DIV/0!	0.00		$219.00

[Toddball]

In case anyone was interested, I tallied up the stated weights of the 30-45L skiing and alpine climbing packs that are under (or close to) 1 kg. I know its not super helpful as a lot of packs (the Ascensionist, HMG) strip down a bit, but thought I’d put it here to compare. Feel free to add to this list! All weights in grams.

Arcteryx FL 30 (technically 23L) - 575
Arcteryx FL 45 - 650
Exped Black Ice 30 - 670
Patagonia Ascensionist 30 - 700
Exped Serac 25 (included because it probably gets to 30) - 720
Exped Black Ice 45 - 740
Exped Serac 35 - 771
Exped Serac 45 - 810
Dynafit RC 35 - 825
BD Cirque 30 - 830
Patagonia Ascensionist 40 - 878
Patagonia Descensionist 40 - 947
Hyperlite Mountain Gear Ice Pack 2400 (40L) - 958
Salomon X-Alp 30 - 1000
BD Cirque 35 - 1030
BD Cirque 45 - 1060

Cold Cold World Valdez - 970g

[hafjell]

How'd you get both axe clips on the same side?

[Va Ki Bo]

How'd you get both axe clips on the same side?

You can remove/reinstall these clips, generally detach axe-clips completely for skiing (the pack shown is in "summer" mode actually)

[hafjell]

You can remove/reinstall these clips, generally detach axe-clips completely for skiing (the pack shown is in "summer" mode actually)

How? I can't figure out how to snap open then black plastic part.

[Va Ki Bo]

How? I can't figure out how to snap open then black plastic part.

[hafjell]

What thickness did you go with for the bungee attaching the hook to the pack? I can by 1/4", 3/16" or 1/8". Is the 1/4" too thick? Thanks.

[Va Ki Bo]

I used ~4mm bungee so 3/16 or 1/4 would be enough.
Though 1/8 will work too I think, esp for short and skinny sticks (used mine with 186Lhasas+RadicalFTs)

[hafjell]

Thanks VKB, for your advice and great photos. Here's what I ended up with:


I bought 12' of 1/8" stainless steel bar for $10.00 and 10' of 3/16" bungee cord for $6.29. A friend lent me his vise and torch, and experience. (Although a complete torch kit with fuel, fuel cylinder, torch and auto lighter is here for only $30.)
Process:
measure the full length bar to ~40 cm (we used--roughly--dimensions from the hook in my Dynafit pack and those listed at Skintrack.)
place a bolt in the vise to use as an anvil / guide (think we used 1/2")
mark the middle of the stainless bar with a sharpie
heat the middle
wrap around the bolt at middle
bend so that sides are parallel
wait for it to cool
measure the length and mark
heat and bend to 90 degrees
wait for it to cool
measure the hook length and mark
heat and bend to 90 degrees
wait for it to cool

My friend then heated, bent and welded the ends to close the loop. Next time, without his equipment or skill, I'll just bend the ends into each other and tape. Not as trick but that whole end will eventually be taped over anyways. He also insisted on the subtle bend at the nose of the hook to ease latching. I wished I'd taken a photo, but it he heated the nose and lightly bent it by wedging it into an open vise and pulling up on the opposite side.

I attached the hook to the bungee with a bowline (open to suggestions for better knots) and then attached the other end of the bungee to the daisy chain on the shoulder strap with another bowline.


I'll trim the ends and tape. Pretty low-tech, but I think it'll go.

[will-antirocks]

Bow lines hold notoriously badly in shock cord. Might be best to change it!

[Toddball]

I have loops of shock cord on my TLT6s to clip leashes to, which are tied with bowlines. Tied them 1.5 years ago and then globbed some Shoe Goo on there; still going strong.