Jong Seeks Tire/Technique Advice re: Tires "giving" in Hard Turns

**ill-advised strategy** · 08-21-2017, 06:48 PM

Well, I'll keep looking and trying to get it all figured out.

**mtngirl79** · 08-21-2017, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

have to get a huge raise or a new job first.

Well, I just showed up at the local trails nearly every day on my hard to ride hard tail from 2002. And saved for a year, to the day.

I also got involved in the local community.

Then, I was on the mountain on Solstice and ran into someone who works at the local bike company head quarters... seems that they noticed me, and appreciate people who show up every day and against all odds start to rip on a 15 year old hard tail...

I did not pay MRSP on my process.

**ACH** · 08-22-2017, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by mtngirl79

I did not pay MRSP on my process.

To put this in context, margin on bikes is low, so not paying MSRP on a new FS/AM bike, is still an expensive proposition.

Originally Posted by flowing alpy

No

Ride one (or any bike), and report back.

**mtngirl79** · 08-22-2017, 09:56 AM

My point was people have bikes, shops have bikes. Models a few years old, frames that got scratched.. People have the extra bike, the frame they meant to build up, etc.

Have you thought about getting a modern, aggressive hardtail? honzo?

**skaredshtles** · 08-22-2017, 10:27 AM

Yah - it's a good time to be a buyer, if you don't mind riding the old, obsolete wheel size.

**mtngirl79** · 08-22-2017, 10:36 AM

yeah, and a few years ago, those old obsolete bikes were super fun, top rated bikes that everyone wanted, even were paying 3, 4, 5 grand for.

Does anyone really think that they aren't fun to ride anymore?

My 2002 kona hard tail was fun to ride.

**skaredshtles** · 08-22-2017, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by mtngirl79

yeah, and a few years ago, those old obsolete bikes were super fun, top rated bikes that everyone wanted, even were paying 3, 4, 5 grand for.

Does anyone really think that they aren't fun to ride anyone?

I still find that mine is fun to ride. On the rare occasion that I get to ride.

**ACH** · 08-22-2017, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by mtngirl79

yeah, and a few years ago, those old obsolete bikes were super fun, top rated bikes that everyone wanted, even were paying 3, 4, 5 grand for.

Does anyone really think that they aren't fun to ride anyone?

There are lots of great used 26" bikes on the market, ready for a second life.
Especially some that were "progressive" for the period of time they were produced.

As a mater of fact, I have a Giant Reign X/0 that will find it's way to a new home inside the next month.

**skaredshtles** · 08-22-2017, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by ACH

There are lots of great used 26" bikes on the market, ready for a second life.
Especially some that were "progressive" for the period of time they were produced.

As a mater of fact, I have a Giant Reign X/0 that will find it's way to a new home inside the next month.

I'm handing my 2010 Reign down to my middle kid. Now I just have to find a new bike that I like as much. Thinking the new Trance may be close...

**ACH** · 08-22-2017, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

I'm handing my 2010 Reign down to my middle kid. Now I just have to find a new bike that I like as much. Thinking the new Trance may be close...

It's funny, in the period of time that I have owned the ReignX , I have had several other bikes that anyone could argue were better, however I always went back to riding it because it just fit right and I had the most fun on it...

**NW_SKIER** · 08-22-2017, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by ACH

To put this in context, margin on bikes is low, so not paying MSRP on a new FS/AM bike, is still an expensive proposition.

Ride one (or any bike), and report back.

Need to shave off the sidewall knobs first.

**XXX-er** · 08-22-2017, 08:57 PM

Amongst the old fucks at my hill I was an early adopter of wide skis so other old farts who could well afford the new hardware would look at my JJ's and say " ya but my old skis are just fine " to which I would reply " hell yer wife is just fine too but wouldn't you rather have a super model?" to which they would just give a stupid grin and remain silent ... no body ever said no thanx my wife is fine and they have all bought wide skis

the takaway is that sure old bikes are fun too but there are newer/faster/better bikes out there that ... do everything better

do ya wana keep riding the same old or the super model?

**grinch** · 08-22-2017, 09:45 PM

Haha a metaphor for life. Hard to argue that

**rideit** · 08-22-2017, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

I still find that mine is fun to ride. On the rare occasion that I get to ride.

Oct. 3rd and 4th, bitch!

**Rip'nStick** · 08-22-2017, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

That's what the shop-owning local maggot told me in person the other day. I'm shocked and disappointed at the price tag of these bikes. It's just beyond my means....in a very black and white way. The lower end (good used) is still like $1500, which is out of reach. I'm actually pretty bitter about it....I have a pretty hard time figuring how I can buy a Honda CR250 for less than a god damn bicycle. I also have a hard time figuring how the college students I constantly see riding around on these bikes managed to pull $3-5000 out of their asses for a bicycle.

Yetidude, you seem like a guy that would have friends. A new model will cost you because people pay for them. It's the price people will cough up that sets the price. Talk to your crew that has other friends that have more disposable income and get a good deal before they post it up.

Also, not sure your riding style, but it is kind of like fatskis, if you can ride hard on a bike couple generations back, it makes you a better rider, better choice of lines, then you get a bike that is light and has more travel, and you are that much better, stronger

Ok I just had to edit this post for typos. I'll admit it, I had some wine while cooking dinner tonight. Take it for what it is worth, but I still ride my 26 handhardtairail on stuff without drops just because I like to have to pick a line. I need reading glasses. Or less $10 white wine

**grinch** · 08-22-2017, 11:09 PM

Once you get one of these newer wonder machines, get 15 days in , you'll be hooked and pay what they tell you to pay. With the new bikes that last 2-3 yrs it's almost a new sport

**ill-advised strategy** · 08-23-2017, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Rip'nStick

Yetidude, you seem like a guy that would have friends. A new model will cost you because people pay for them. It's the price people will cough up that sets the price. Talk to your crew that has other friends that have more disposable income and get a good deal before they post it up.

Also, not sure your riding style, but it is kind of like fatskis, if you can ride hard on a bike couple generations back, it makes you a better rider, better choice of lines, then you get a bike that is light and has more travel, and you are that much better, stronger

Ok I just had to edit this post for typos. I'll admit it, I had some wine while cooking dinner tonight. Take it for what it is worth, but I still ride my 26 handhardtairail on stuff without drops just because I like to have to pick a line. I need reading glasses. Or less $10 white wine

Honestly, one of our own maggots offered me a very good deal on an older FS bike this spring and it felt weird test riding it, not being used to FS....so another friend made me a good deal on his old El Mar rigid fork SS. Quickly realized that bike needed a fork and gearing, so I ended up spending about $1K on that bike. This guy's a racer and rides his SS El Mar all the time everywhere and his whole take on it was it'll make you a better rider. But really, I just want to have the same kind of sensation I had riding dirtbikes, where you're not focusing on pebbles and roots just to not die, you can just kind of look ahead and let the suspension work while you pick lines. I think some people must enjoy fighting their way through stuff, just like some people like skiing impossibly tight trees, or nordic skiing, or whatever. So, you know, whoops....should have bought the Giant VT2 when it was offered.

I'm sure it'll all sort itself out. Size is an issue, on the one hand an XL might be cheap because there are fewer customers. On the other hand, there may not be anything good for sale in that size.

And with the $$ killing me thing, to put it in context, I take home about $350 a week. So when I dropped $1K on a mtb this year, it really set me back. It's difficult to make a living where I live, and many people live on less than 20K a year. Everyone I work with commutes in sub-$2K cars from methed-out small towns nearby. I'm doing the best I can here, there are ways I could make more money but each one puts me in a position where I wouldn't be able to recreate on a regular basis, so I'm choosing sanity...or trying to choose sanity.

I did cruise ebay looking at older DH bikes. There are a lot, and they're affordable, but what I wonder is whether a DH bike is really appropriate for a situation where you have to ride uphill as much as you ride downhill? A lot of those bikes look like they're not at all set up to be ridden on flats or uphill...which is necessary at some point because I'm riding from my house, so any elevation change is both gained and lost.

**kidwoo** · 08-23-2017, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

I did cruise ebay looking at older DH bikes. There are a lot, and they're affordable, but what I wonder is whether a DH bike is really appropriate for a situation where you have to ride uphill as much as you ride downhill?

Absolutely not. Descending on them will be the closest thing to your moto but those things suck big time to climb uphill for any length of time, especially up anything with any pitch. They'll weigh more but worse is just the body position the geometry puts you in. Don't do it.

They'll also be slower descending on most 'multi-use', public trails that aren't that steep. They're kind of like 220 dh boards. Insanely good in their environment but pretty useless outside of it.

**MrDirt** · 08-23-2017, 09:13 AM

I like the Kona Process recommendation. It was a bike that was a year or two ahead of its time and geometry amongst other companies changed very rapidly after it came out. I loved my 111 and spent two seasons on it. The fact that you can get a 2014 and it's still completely relevant geo-wise means you should be able to score one at a decent price and have a modern bike.

Components: Suspension and wheels/tires are the only places where it makes a legit difference when you spend the extra money. Tires are the biggest performance upgrade you can make to just about anything that uses tires, whether its a car, motorcycle, or bicycle. If you want to rail turns, get DH style tires just like everyone else said. I like my 2.3 minion DHF/Minion SS and 2.8 Butcher/Slaughter combo's a lot. At 245lbs I don't have any problems with tire roll using the EXO and Grid casings, but that's with appropriately sized rims. When I was still on 21mm internal rims, I would occasionally burp the tires in corners and had to run a lot more pressure than I wanted because of it.

Technique: Getting some instruction will pay dividends. I went to Whistler for the first time a couple years ago and took all-day lessons from Whistler Bike School for four days. I think I progressed more in those 4 days than I had in the previous 4 years, certainly with jumps, drops, and technical riding, but mostly with cornering. THIS is about the closest thing I could quickly find to what I learned there. To add on to the Twist part of it: your torso, hips, and knees should all be pointed toward corner exit. In the case of your knees, it means your outside knee will be resting against the top tube. Don't just rest it there, physically push against the top tube with your knee to further angulate the bike and push the cornering knobs into the ground. All of this technique feels very awkward before you develop the confidence in how well it works. That confidence will come when you start to slide the bike, keep your form despite your brain telling you "NO!", and see that the bike is controllable and easy to correct and regain traction.

**XXX-er** · 08-23-2017, 09:14 AM

those older DH bikes were made to be pushed up hill, and look closely at old DH bikes for frame cracks

**mtngirl79** · 08-23-2017, 09:19 AM

my suggestion, Yeti, is that you buy a Kona Honzo frame. I think they are all out of the 2017s, but they 2018s come out in September. they are like 500ish bucks.

take all your parts off the old hard tail, sell that frame for a couple hundred bucks? I dont know if its worth anything, but sell it.

If you don't like riding the Honzo, you could probably sell the it for close to 1000 give or take depending on your parts quality.

The Honzo has agressive, modern geometry, and will ride way different than the bike you are on now.

**bagtagley** · 08-23-2017, 09:50 AM

Agreed with woo about a DH bike. At your size, you could get away with an older freerideish bike. Problem is, you should probably be on a 29er.

If you want a FS bike, get a FS bike. Hardtails can make you a better rider, or they can make you hate riding bikes. They can also suck if you have back issues.

**Dantheman** · 08-23-2017, 11:01 AM

A bargain bin DH bike is also likely to need $1000 or more in parts right off the bat.

**jamal** · 08-23-2017, 04:22 PM

Yeah, counter point is put on some burlier tires and keep riding your bike. Meanwhile save your pennies and hope the financial situation improves.

**ill-advised strategy** · 08-25-2017, 12:39 PM

Well, I found the limit of the El Mar last night. Small air is still too much. Bottomed the fork, taco'd front wheel, and slammed into the flats for a particularly hard slam. Had the blurred vision on the way home....really thought for a bit I may have broken ribs. Ripped my shorts to the point that I couldn't wear them home, so I coasted home in my underwear, bleeding from like 50 places, vision all fucked up, with a wobbling taco front wheel. Pretty sweet.

This is why I didn't ride dirt for so long. No $$ for the good bike, not into grinding around riding slow on flat trails, riding cheap bike on fun trails is going to cripple me.

May have just fucked up the best part of the year for surfing. I guess we'll see how everything heals in a week or whatever.