2017 Praxis Skis Info and Resource Thread

[TahoeJ]

I agree ... and it kind of mirrors praxis’ lineup. Don’t get me wrong, lots of great and intriguing options, but as a Praxis noob I’m just having trouble deciding what to get.

[galibier_numero_un]

Not saying that the info here hasn't been great just completely lost on what the actual need was

It was an attempt to hedge my bets - trying to make a choice that had the lowest probability of ending up on gear swap.

I got to thinking (if you're thinking you're stinking) that I might be able to hedge my bets by looking at two related needs: (1) a daily inbounds driver that could be thought of as a skinny GPO, and (2) a mid-Winter touring ski that behaves like a skinny GPO.

The inbounds option is where the PJ entered the conversation, since I somewhat bonded with a Kartel 98 during a demo. In general, Praxi have worked better for me, and I looked at a PJ as I would a Kartel (somewhat similar in character to a GPO).

I wasn't sure that a fall back scenario (remounting a PJ for touring) would light me up, and it was about then that Keith got back to me - commenting that the closest ski to a skinny GPO is the BC (pick your layup). He also commented that both a PJ and an MVP are quite a bit more jibby than a GPO.

With the BC re-entering the conversation, the discussion shifted to balancing out the current quiver - comments that I agree with (that an MVP and a BC are a bit too closely spaced to a GPO to make a huge difference).

I've seen Black Diamonds! comments about a 105-ish width rang true however - that I'd grab this width ski 90% of the time in the Winter around these parts. At that point, it seemed like a dumb thing to skip over it just because of owning another ski.

Round 'n round I went, and finally I decided to go with a BC ... for now ... Spacing be dammed, I'll deal with balancing out the quiver once I learn what works.

... Thom

[eskido]

and finally I decided to go with a BC ... for now ... Spacing be dammed, I'll deal with balancing out the quiver once I learn what works.

... Thom

Sounds like a great call to me man, I'd have a hard time disagreeing with that for sure! For me that black diamond's 105 is a 115 GPO. Toured for yrs on skis in the 105 range but for my weight when the breakable crust really comes out, the width and versatility of the GPO far outshines the cons on the way up, and kills it for mid winter touring. Completely believe that for skinnier folks that width is obviously smaller(105ish) so I fully understand what your looking for but, it sounds to me like your looking for a MVP/Piste Jib on mtn but a skinny GPO/RX/Q to tour on? Basically looking for a spring/fall unicorn... don't think I'd ever be in your exact predicament due to my need for wider sticks to avoid break through and my sincere love for the GPO as the ultimate touring rig. But, other than considering the fat yeti, I'd say a stiff BC sounds pretty spot on. I just want to reiterate that I think your looking for 2 different skis and we all know that that ski never really exists. Personally if I was in your spot I'd want a spring/fall on mtn jibby stick and a spring/fall touring stick and while they would be close, they'd be different, (for me anyway) would likely be a fat yeti/skinny concept/skinny Q/skinny GPO vs a MVP/Piste Jib. The obvious in between (which you already decided in would certainly be the BC which you already picked so moot random thoughts... sorry, should've just said "good call, think your on point!"

Edit to say, this ski would be a MVP for me but that rockered tail would make me go skinny RX if there was to be a substantial amount of touring in the cards for this ski

[galibier_numero_un]

Yup, I think I let myself get wrapped around the axle by planning a bailout clause (converting whatever ski I chose from inbounds to touring or vice versa). Sometimes, when you plan a bailout, you guarantee it ;-)

An Enduro/Veneer flex#4 BC looks more and more like a great companion to my GPOs. I decided that don't really care if I find myself using one of them 80-90 percent of the time.

For an inbounds mate to my Qs, I'll very likely wrestle with a PJ vs. MVP decision at some point, taking into consideration that I've rediscovered my Automatic 109s. I had fun demoing Kartel 98s but I suspect I'll have even more fun on one of the two Praxi (Praxis's?).

5'9', 165 Lbs. Maybe our personal stats, home region and mountains frequented could be in a sticky post which we could link to rather than being redundant.

... Thom

[SchralphMacchio]

Thom what’s your BSL? If I ever get out to CO I would LOVE to demo said BC, I promise to bring Oregon beers in exchange [emoji6]

(I’m a 307 btw!)

I also had the sly thought this morning that when I’m ready to turn my 11-12 BC’s into rock skis, I can always remount them 2 cm forward of where they are today just for shitzengiggles ...

[galibier_numero_un]

297. I think Vipecs have +11/-11 adjustment range (if I get the mount dead center).

... Thom

[SchralphMacchio]

Hehehe nice also if I ever get my Maestrale 2’s that will drop me from 307 to 298!

[galibier_numero_un]

Hehehe nice also if I ever get my Maestrale 2’s that will drop me from 307 to 298!

Yeah, some Sumner planning, and I'm reminded to look at the next generation of boots that might replace my 26.0 Maestrales.

Always opportunities for OCD behavior ;-)

... Thom

[jmars]

I’ve read to much so I have to ask...why hasn’t anyone pulled the trigger on a skinny protest....I’m assuming no one wants to be the first? Maybe I missed something in my reading

[skibrd]

I’ve read to much so I have to ask...why hasn’t anyone pulled the trigger on a skinny protest....I’m assuming no one wants to be the first? Maybe I missed something in my reading

The skinny Protest is the WooTest. Then Praxis updated it with the WooTest 2.0. Blister did an article about the creation of it a few years back.

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...praxis-wootest

[wwwllw]

The skinny Protest is the WooTest. Then Praxis updated it with the WooTest 2.0. Blister did an article about the creation of it a few years back.

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...praxis-wootest

I think there was another ski talked about. An unmodified just 10mm narrower.
Suprechicken was the one heading it. They were calling it the chkntest. Once the Quixote was realesed I think the desire waned.

[Self Jupiter]

-10 Qs have really grown on me. 188s, heavy core #4 stiff. They float above their width but also handle firm really well considering their design and intent. They would be a OSQ with off-piste focus for the EC for me if I ever had to downsize the quiver. Currently I use them for EC ‘pow’ days (3-5’’ dust on crust) and for short tours. They really make that amount of snow ski like a lot of fun- super quick and surfy, but hold on if you get to the ice crust. Very psyched with them, will keep in the quiver.

I think I will replace my 186 EHP with a set of 188 full size Qs- can’t think of a better EC tree powder ski for all but our deepest days. I think they’ll ski livelier at slower speeds and better on firm than my 186 EHP, while having almost as much frictionlessness.

[jmars]

Yep makes sense and I actually read that on the wootest...sorry about that

[Shu Shu]

-10 Qs have really grown on me. 188s, heavy core #4 stiff. They float above their width but also handle firm really well considering their design and intent. They would be a OSQ with off-piste focus for the EC for me if I ever had to downsize the quiver. Currently I use them for EC ‘pow’ days (3-5’’ dust on crust) and for short tours. They really make that amount of snow ski like a lot of fun- super quick and surfy, but hold on if you get to the ice crust. Very psyched with them, will keep in the quiver.

I think I will replace my 186 EHP with a set of 188 full size Qs- can’t think of a better EC tree powder ski for all but our deepest days. I think they’ll ski livelier at slower speeds and better on firm than my 186 EHP, while having almost as much frictionlessness.

Sweet. I hope you do as I would love to hear how the two compare. The regular Q is a phenomenal pow ski, and I don't grab my Protests unless it's really deep (like 2-3 times a year).

I was out yesterday with my buddy on a good soft-pack day, he was on Qs and I was on PJs. It was actually super cool to watch. He was making huge high speed arcs and then just feathering the tails to change the radius of the turns. When I watched it happen I was like yeah I know exactly what that feels like and its awesome. It was so cool to ski behind him and just watch how the tails slide around so easily with that feathering approach.

I would be very interested to know if that two footed/feather approach is similar/amplified/reduced by waist width. I can easily see adding a Skinny Q if the feel is similar, but just a little more nimble manageable for lower tide.

Here's my regular rotation from this season.

PJ- skiing with the family, spring bumps (so good)
Q-Everything else
Protest-big pow mornings

[Self Jupiter]

^what’s your BSL? Would love to do a Q -q swaperooski some time. 297 here.

I’ve got 193 MVPs to share.

[Duffman]

-10 Qs have really grown on me. 188s, heavy core #4 stiff. They float above their width but also handle firm really well considering their design and intent. They would be a OSQ with off-piste focus for the EC for me if I ever had to downsize the quiver. Currently I use them for EC ‘pow’ days (3-5’’ dust on crust) and for short tours. They really make that amount of snow ski like a lot of fun- super quick and surfy, but hold on if you get to the ice crust. Very psyched with them, will keep in the quiver.

I think I will replace my 186 EHP with a set of 188 full size Qs- can’t think of a better EC tree powder ski for all but our deepest days. I think they’ll ski livelier at slower speeds and better on firm than my 186 EHP, while having almost as much frictionlessness.

Haven't gotten any real EC ice days on them , but my 188 Q Enduro #4 veneer held incredibly well on AM refrozen, windblown, polished to ivory groomers at Alta last week . The grip for a rockered 118 underfoot ski was unexpectedly good. I will have no qualms using these as an EC powder ski

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[Shu Shu]

^what’s your BSL? Would love to do a Q -q swaperooski some time. 297 here.

I’ve got 193 MVPs to share.

297

[jmars]

Ok team...ive burnt out my thinking cap....I’ve been back and forth with Keith on a build for my wife who is in love with her BC. Some of you know I’m beating a dead horse on this build....bc I swore I was ordering her a 175 2+ GPO for her pow ski, deep day ski BUT I am way stuck on building her a skinny 177 Protest. She loves how short the BC skis and how she can over manipulate the tails as need. A skinny Protest is nothing like she has or been on. I would think a skinny protest 177 skis shorter than a 175 GPO (111mm waist) but maybe I am wrong.

She is fickle with long low rise skis, she has a Nordica Vagabond 170 (men’s version /107mm) and although likes it she finds it a bit laborsome at times but her Nordica Nemisis 169s are gravy to her (women’s enforcer 98mm). This is why I think the long low and stiffer riser of the vagabond is the culprit.

Kieth hasn’t built a skinny Protest yet so it’s a gamble I’m not sure I’m ready to take on a ski for my wife, the other negative is the width being 118 (bc it’s a skinny 128), I just don’t know/think 118 is necessary for a 120 5’4” human in 268bsl.

I’m going to cry uncle soon, I for myself will be ordering a 192 flex 4 Protest but it’s the wifey ski which is posing the largest problem. We are heading to Japan next year and know this will be a special day build.....I am just not overly confident it works like it does in stock sizes. In a skinny protest I’d think a 2+ would be good but open to thoughts.

Thanks again for supporting and helping, maybe the 175 GPO is the ski in the end. Keith has been so awesome but we both hit “skiers block” on this build for her which is why I’m reaching out to you guys again.

[steveski]

For Japan for her I'd say skinny protest. Very maneuverable, good width for her size, will ski trees with ease.

Japan aside, I'd say get the GPO. Most versatile ski I've ever used. Excels in all conditions (deep is more dependent on mount point).

I brought a GPO and carbon protest to Japan and I skied the protest 80% of the time, because it's Japan and the snow was deep and awesome. Also there is enough lower angle terrain it is nice to have extra width for float.

[jmars]

Thanks Steve....Japow ski for next years trip and then a closet ski broken out for cat/heli.

Keith noted his issue is the tip measurement of a skinny protest 129/118/122 and questioned if the design would lose some integrity by sizing down but he also noted that it may work for smaller skiers. Further Keith noted that its kinda what was discussed a lot with the wootest, but the wootest was sized down even more from the protest.

I want the design to work b/c I think the Protest in stock form is sweet and the Skinny version for my wife makes sense in theory but is it a gamble that can fail....part of me thinks not.

[Shu Shu]

jmars, if you wanted to stick with the more established design of the 175 GPO, what about adding the continuous curve rocker profile to make it more pow playful?.Just a thought.

If I remember correctly Neck Beard has spent quite a bit of time on his maybe worth a PM?

[jmars]

Saw that as well but never addressed it with Keith. I'm swimming to the deep end slowly on a skinny Protest....

[sruffian]

The Super Freerides were awesome again yesterday and today. Took them up to Cody and NoName Bowl yesterday, and into Granite Canyon today. Do really need to keep my boots tight on them. I tried to keep them loose tight, but the tips wandered on me, sort of fluttering back and forth. I do HAVE to stay on the tips and keep my hands up and forward, or I get my but kicked. I’m trying to track down a 5 stiffness pair of Super Freerides that are rumored to be living in Idaho. If I can get my hands on them, Ill report back on the differences. Hopefully the tails are slightly more supportive.

I’m looking at ordering a pair of Protests for next winter for a Japan trip. Does anyone know if Keith can edit out parts of a top sheet when printing them on a veneer? I think the Protests would look awesome with a Navaho stop sheet, printed on veneer, but minus the wood printed part. Probably the white oak, ambrosia maple, or Karelian birch veneer, hoping its a little lighter then the Max on cherry. If Keith cant edit out the wood part of the Navaho topsheet, I might just go Mother Theresa on cherry, seems a little douchie, but I bet it would look absolutely fucking amazing.

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Was digging through some old veneer photos on the praxis fb page and found this for ya -

[skibrd]

Was digging through some old veneer photos on the praxis fb page and found this for ya -

Ohh I like. Keith got back to me and said its definitely a possibility and has been done before, and now we have proof!


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[SchralphMacchio]

Japow ski for next years trip and then a closet ski broken out for cat/heli.

Seems like your wife's small frame but strong abilities puts her at a tweener size. Sounds like what you need is a 172mm Protest based on the 163mm version.

But if this is gonna be a japow / heli / cat ski, why not 170mm Pow boards? Would be outrageous float for 120 lbs + gear, and great surf feeling for a true pair of "closet sticks". Or do you really need the versatility of a flat-based ski with a touch of sidecut?

175 GPO probably will still feel like upsizing from 170 BC / 169 Vagabond. I know what the BC specs say on paper but there is something about the flex profile and gentle rise on the GPO that makes it feel more engaged in the snow and longer than BC. Probably not a problem for japow / heli / cat terrain though, especially if you mount GPO at -1 cm.

I sent you a PM about 169 Vagabond BTW, as I just got 169 Wildfires for my wife. Would appreciate any beta/response you have over PM!!!