Superstar Components rep annihilates bike industry hype-cancer train

[Damian Sanders]

EPIC POUNDING.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/1-ques...-with-275.html

So from a different industry angle (Superstar Components), ie the aftermarket wheel retailer, we have had pretty much no interest in 27+ wheels.

It was a classic bike industry "whats next years big thing", which works as follows (feel free to drop in any niche):

1- Niche brand wants something new and niche to make them stand out from the gazillion other people selling the same stuff to the same people. they sell tiny numbers
2- Big brands product managers want a piece of the action so they launch a range of new products and get a load made
3- Big brands flood the front of their Eurobike stand with these "cool must have products"
4- Big brands spend a fortune on marketing them, and cant back down as they are upto their eyeballs in invoices and stock on the water.
5- The media start making up gibberish about how "lifechanging" they are
6- Bikeshops tell their supplier salesman to get stuffed over stocking this years wonder machine after getting shafted with fatbikes and all the other niches which never came to anything.
7- Bikeforums go wild with the nichemongers creaming themselves over their niche purchase being "lifechanging" to justify dropping ££££ on a weird bike which is not quite as good as a normal bike. The 3 people who bought them keep repeating like a stuck record so it sounds like lots of people have them..
8- 99.87% of people carry on buying normal bikes
9- The shops who are suckered into buying them bin them out at a loss to get rid
10- Bike companies find out nobody bought the things and bin them off to make space for the next "EPIC PRODUCT"
11- 99.88% of people carry on buying normal stuff
12- Nichemongers windge about how you cant get spares for their weirdass heap o junk
13- Return to point 1

My feelings on 27+:
- i had conversations with rim manufacturers in taiwan where they basically were pissed off at spending a fortune on tooling for all these "must have" new rims, and nobody bought them and the ones who did massively cut their orders at the last minute!
- you get a slightly bigger tyre which makes naff all difference
- your rims and tyres now have their own gravity field
- your bike now rides like a slow bag o crap
- you get a warm glow that everyone envies your ego chariot of the latest nicheness
- you realise your wrong in so many ways
- you fit normal wheels and all is good again

To all the people who like 27+, at least it will get you fit dragging around all that junk.

------------------------------------

You may not have noticed this was tongue in cheek.... you may even be falling into point 7 a bit.

Yes your correct that we don't set the agenda of the bike business but that wasn't my point. My point was that these big companies and their marketing machine are "telling you what to think" even when in the background of the industry they cant even give away these "hot" products. They have to keep reinforcing that they are great to get rid of them, they cant back down even if the new product is a complete dead dog.

These hype products get 99% of the media yet sell 0.1% of the market turnover.

I have not defined normal bikes, by that i mean everything else that isn't hype and people actually buy! be it 29/650 or dare i say it 26" (which we sell loads of even though its apparently so dead according to the so called "industry hype experts")

All opinions listened to and valued, i just cant cope with spouting hype like the majority of brands are built on.

-----------------------------

I realise that our brand doesnt fit the image you have for yourself (hence as you say scathing replys to anything we post), but thats your personal preference. We come up against that all the time, but thats because your not our customer base and there nothing wrong with that either. not having a dig just simpily your not our slice of the pie becasue of your personal "value" choices on the fashion of our brand.

ive lost count of the conversations ive had where somebody says dont by X but buy Y, when it turns out to be the exact same thing but at twice the price. the difference brand allignment and hype. but if it makes you happy then go elsewhere and get what you want im not going to stop you. some people wear a t-shirt, some people pay 10 times the price for the same thing with a logo on as it makes them feel good. We sold a stem once for £13 which another brand sold for £50, difference was the sticker - hype or quality, its the same bloody thing!

The reason we sell lots of 26" is simple - theres loads of them out there! its got nothing to do with being a low end (apparantly) brand. Im not alienating potential 27+ customer, im just not interested in investing tends of thousands of pounds selling that product as the market is many times smaller than the hype makes out, infact almost non-existant.

This kinda supports my opinion that people have been blinded by the market hype...

Bearing in mind im basing this on over a decade of experience and we know from previous comments you have made on pinkbike that you have presumed alot of things (like that obviously our huge UK made range is all made in taiwan...). We can use that to validate whos opinion might be closer to the truth.

Lets hug and make up, i like a good discussion but lets keep things based on facts not presumptions.

-----------------------------------

I have to apolagise here for the UK made comment, it was another user on the same thread i got mixed up with you, ive just re-read it all. My bad, i apolagise again.

Back to the conversation. Just because the bike has 26" doesnt mean its not high end, people keep bikes for a while and alot of people dont ditch it every year for the latest fashion. we support all the sizes and we sell cheap 650b and expensive 26", whatever the customer wants. Actually lots of eastern europe brands are still doing loads of 26", might not be the fashion here but over there it is. Your opinion of cheap is different to other people, and i work on the actual materials going into the product without worrying about the hype.

I just think its bonkers when people say a product is low end when literally the only difference is a sticker and a preconception.

-------------------------------------

We gave up on the carbon stuff as there are so many people selling open mould chinese stuff.

back in the day we invested a huge amount of money into tooling ($10,000 per size for the tool alone) to make a wide carbon rim which nobody but the likes of enve were making. We sold alot originally but then everyone started selling alibaba specials so it became a bit pointless.

People now expect either $1500 hype rims or $250 cheap rims and anything in the middle they say is a cheap rims which is a ripoff.

So we have invested in making higher quality custom aluminium rims instead, eg our Alpine30 which is custom made for ourselves to our design with really high end technical features and materials. Its a mavic crossmax type quality (or a bit better really) rim but at half the pricepoint. They are going down well and are a nice option which not many brands cover currently.

[Vt-Freeheel]

I need a nap.

[Peruvian]

One data point does not equal truth.

Whether 27.5+ has a future is yet to be seen but I will admit, it has pushed what was commonly was accepted into wider realms. My 2.4s seem "mid-fat" these days.

Think of how skis have evolved into wider patterns. This could be similar. What serious skier (besides racers) even skis 75mm wide skis anymore?

[rideit]

26" is gonna have a reemergence like Trump is gonna have a second term...

[Damian Sanders]

Think of how skis have evolved into wider patterns. This could be similar. What serious skier (besides racers) even skis 75mm wide skis anymore?

People who ski ice a lot?

I know a bunch of people that have bought 100mm+ all around skis for the east, but all they do is skid around. I own a number of skis around 100mm and think they are OK, but 90mm is really better all around in the east. For example, I have a (1st year) 187 Blizzard Bonafide (98mm, full metal) and (newer) 187 Bushwhacker (88mm, limited metal) that are both awesome, and now I'm trying to decide if I should pick up a '17 Bonafide or Brahama (88mm metal) this year. The Bonafide has a enough float to make it usable in some powder, but the 88mm width I've experienced on the bushwhacker (virtually same construction and sidecut without metal) is FAR more precise and fun on 90% of all around conditions.

[Peruvian]

I know a bunch of people that have bought 100mm+ all around skis for the east, but all they do is skid around. I own a number of skis around 100mm and think they are OK, but 90mm is really better all around in the east. For example, I have a (1st year) 187 Blizzard Bonafide (98mm, full metal) and (newer) 187 Bushwhacker (88mm, limited metal) that are both awesome, and now I'm trying to decide if I should pick up a '17 Bonafide or Brahama (88mm metal) this year. The Bonafide has a enough float to make it usable in some powder, but the 88mm width I've experienced on the bushwhacker (virtually same construction and sidecut without metal) is FAR more precise and fun on 90% of all around conditions.

Thank you for the update on your quiver, but what does that have to do with 75mm skis? In fact, I think you proved my point.

[creaky fossil]

There's a lot of people riding bikes in 2017 who never rode massive overbuilt bikes/wheels, or fat DH(ish) tires, back in the late 90s/early00s.

It's easy to persuade them that carrying more tire is a great bargain, cushy forgiveness-wise. Probably most of 'em haven't tried lugging fatplus tires up 3k+ climbs or dragging them along on a 7hr ride. If all you do is drive to trailhead and pedal at a slow speed for 45 mins, any combo's gonna feel great. As will every pseudo-innovation sold as must-have game-changing sport-progressing essential gear/tech.

When winter rolls around, these people tail-wag their 110mm skis on the groomers and then go onto social media to talk about how big a performance envelope the skis have, what a massive game-changer they were.

[Damian Sanders]

Thank you for the update on your quiver, but what does that have to do with 75mm skis? In fact, I think you proved my point.

Millions of people still ski 75mm waist skis, they are like a hybrid bike or 29er hardtail. Straight skis are like fully rigid 26".

A 90mm-ish ski with a bit of rocker, normal sidecut, and some metal, is like a conventional 26" all mountain / trail FS bike. Usually the right tool for the job, all hype aside.

[Peruvian]

Millions of people still ski 75mm waist skis, they are like a hybrid bike or 29er hardtail. Straight skis are like fully rigid 26".

You keep proving my point. Forward progress in equipment can set a new 'normal'.

[axebiker]

Had a 26", 27.5+, 29", 29+, and a 4.0" fattie. Sold all but the 27.5+. Love it to death.

[Mudfoot]

If you ride semi-rough terrain 27.5 plus is a sweet ride. Not the fastest uphill or down, but that is not the point. It is comfortable and rolls over everything. Maybe not for precise gonzo riding, but it's not always about gnarly speed. It fills a need for a lot of people, both the less skilled and those strong riders who want to do 3-4 hour rides on rough terrain, but need a little less of a beating on their bods for whatever reason. Some start with the 27.5 because it is forgiving and progress to something more racy, and some strong riders progressed from rigid frames to 26 suspended, then 29 and now 27.5 plus because they still want to do 3-4 hr. rides on rough terrain but need a little more cush on the old bones. It's not bad, it just may not be for you, but just wait you'll be old one day.

[panchosdad]

If you ride semi-rough terrain 27.5 plus is a sweet ride. Not the fastest uphill or down, but that is not the point. It is comfortable and rolls over everything. Maybe not for precise gonzo riding, but it's not always about gnarly speed. It fills a need for a lot of people, both the less skilled and those strong riders who want to do 3-4 hour rides on rough terrain, but need a little less of a beating on their bods for whatever reason. Some start with the 27.5 because it is forgiving and progress to something more racy, and some strong riders progressed from rigid frames to 26 suspended, then 29 and now 27.5 plus because they still want to do 3-4 hr. rides on rough terrain but need a little more cush on the old bones. It's not bad, it just may not be for you, but just wait you'll be old one day.

This is pretty much my experience as well. My generation of 50+ riders is slowly shifting to 27.5+, and those that aren't are running the biggest tires they can fit. If you're not railing high speed berms, they make a lot of sense.

[creaky fossil]

This is pretty much my experience as well. My generation of 50+ riders is slowly shifting to 27.5+, and those that aren't are running the biggest tires they can fit. If you're not railing high speed berms, they make a lot of sense.

what a shame that your friends are such pussies

"make a lot of sense" -- think you mis-spelled the last word there

make a lot of CENTS

that's more like it. keep the lizard-brained happy and wealthy while you buy crap that's useless and historically tried-&-rejected for good reason.

humans devote so much mental energy to rationalizing their poor choices. just 'cuz you have a decent rationalization for the stupid decision you made, that doesn't mean the decision wasn't stupid!

[gravitylover]

I'm with Mudfoot and panchosdad. I'm enjoying the hell out of my + bike. I really don't care if it's not as fast or light as some of my other bikes because it's just plain old fun. I also don't care if people think it's stupid or unnecessary because it's fun. What did yo mama say - If you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all - Right? You don't even have to wait for me at the top of the climb because I'm out there having fun.

[bsavery]

EPIC POUNDING.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/1-ques...-with-275.html

Do you have anything original to post Damian, or are you like the guy in the office who forwards insightful emails?

[Mudfoot]

creaky fossil; "what a shame that your friends are such pussies"

OK, so anyone who does not ride the same kind of bike as you is a pussy. Glad we got that straightened out.

[creaky fossil]

A high level of sensitivity, applied randomly to whomever you've chosen as your target today, does you no credit.

Perhaps you've mistaken TGR for The Stuart Smalley School of Softness?

I find it something of a deep shame that you could not read my post in any way but this: "Creaky's an asshole, I hate that guy, whatever he says is BULLSHIT ANGER!"

Especially when there are people like kidwoo and stuckathuntermtn here on TGR.

Back to the subject: why would you need "plus" tires on a bike that already has a lot going for it, traction-wise? If you rode in the late 90s/early 00s and saw the big tires on display everywhere, for "the GNAR!", and tried pedaling those anchors around, you might understand the point I'm making. "Plus" tires on a FS bike are even funnier. Why'd you get FS only to ruin its utility with a balloon tire?

[tom tuttle from tacoma washington]

I own 2 26" bikes and a 27.5.

The 27.5 is my everyday bike for riding in SW Montana.

I could give a fuck what DS or Old Man Bitters think.

Did a group ride yesterday with 31 people. There was an even mix of 26 27.5 and 29" bikes. Everyone had a great time.

We all got along just fine.

BTW, ever notice that DS doesn't post on Sat. or Sundays? Too busy or in jail?

[Damian Sanders]

Do you have anything original to post Damian, or are you like the guy in the office who forwards insightful emails?

Sure, sometimes I post my own content. But I like to post content I find interesting to get discussion about it - which is one of the primary purposes of message boards.

[Damian Sanders]

If you ride semi-rough terrain 27.5 plus is a sweet ride. Not the fastest uphill or down, but that is not the point. It is comfortable and rolls over everything. Maybe not for precise gonzo riding, but it's not always about gnarly speed. It fills a need for a lot of people, both the less skilled and those strong riders who want to do 3-4 hour rides on rough terrain, but need a little less of a beating on their bods for whatever reason. Some start with the 27.5 because it is forgiving and progress to something more racy, and some strong riders progressed from rigid frames to 26 suspended, then 29 and now 27.5 plus because they still want to do 3-4 hr. rides on rough terrain but need a little more cush on the old bones. It's not bad, it just may not be for you, but just wait you'll be old one day.

You just specified precisely 0.1% of the mountain bike market, exactly like the quote in the original post.

A majority of people who are doing that type of riding want a more precise bike with better handling and more durable tires.

Then there is the rest of the mountain biking market who has absolutely no need to ride a boat anchor around on normal trails.

What about the people who ride a plus bike on flow trails? There is a special place in hell reserved for them.

Your typical 0.1%er on his plus bike:



Plus bikes remind me of the interest in fat bikes. 95% of the interest comes from over weight, out of shape yuppies who haven't ridden a bike in ten years. They think it looks SUPER AWESOME, buy one, ride it once, then it sits in their basement with all their other failed aspirations and broken dreams.

[gravitylover]

^ Your perspective is so fucked up. You really need to get out more.

[tom tuttle from tacoma washington]

I am honored to be in the 0.1%.

And yesterdays group ride Buffalo Horn to Porcupine had folks who ranged in age from mid 20s to early 60s. And Gasp! there were 2 more women than men and everyone could ride. Little in the way of mechanicals, and hardly any blood spilled. 20 miles+- and 3-4 hrs.

You sure about that 0.1 %

[Damian Sanders]

^ Your perspective is so fucked up. You really need to get out more.

Have you ever sold bikes in an "average" bike shop?

[jackstraw]

This thread and all of Damiens threads are about people scared of change. Just like his political thoughts, he wants everything to stay the same from whatever time period he prefers. Clearly it isn't the 1800's with bikes, but it might just be with his politics. Whatever suits your needs DS, just roll along, but for christ sakes, just give everyone else a break. We don't care. We all road 26ers. I still have one too.

[creaky fossil]

(1) Did a group ride yesterday with 31 people. There was an even mix of 26 27.5 and 29" bikes. Everyone had a great time.

(2) We all got along just fine.

(1) 31 people isn't a group ride, it's a trail stampede.

(2) Unbelievable. You didn't argue every 100 yds about what wheel size is better, or plus vs regular tire casings, or the virtues of extra-wide rims? I call BS!

This thread and all of Damiens threads are about people scared of change.

Karl Marx is a deadhead who rides bikes in Vermont?

We all road 26ers. I still have one too.

You might be a "road 26er", I guess. "We all," though? I'm not. I'm a road 700c'er.

Also, I quarrel with your nomenclature. I think "road 26er" is called 650B in roadie lingo. I ride 26" wheels on 95% of my MTB rides, because I'm "reactionary," Karl.