New boot shortlist: DIN and tech compatible, <100mm last, 120 flex.

[doebedoe]

I've been boot slumming for the last few years. Skiing old Lange RX130s (27.5) someone shipped me for free from here w/ PowerWraps inbounds, and hand-me-down TLT5s (28.5) for my touring. TLT5s are still in workable shape, but the inbounds boots need replacing.

So -- what should I be trying to find to try on.

Foot deets:
- Narrow (97-98mm last preferred)
- Highish instep
- Twig shins/ankles

Use deets:
- 70/30 inbounds/out of bounds. Will be my primary inbounds boot. But would also like a boot that skis better than the TLT5s for touring on days w/ <4K' vert and minimal mileage. 30 inbounds days, 10 mixed days, and 10 bc days / season in these.
- 120 flex is about right. RX130s w/ PowerWraps have been softened to about there.

Other things:
- Don't want to have to swap soles to go between tech and DIN. Fucking hate switching boots after a morning uphill lap or two.
- Top strappy thing doesn't matter much. Will be replaced with proper booster strap.
- Prefer to be able to actually ski the stock liner and not replace immediately.

Current shortlist:
- Tecnica Cochise 120/130
- K2 Pinnacle Pro

[galibier_numero_un]

You're probably thinking binding compatibility with your current quiver - eliminating WTR soles like the Lange from consideration.

I went through this last year. My shortlist included the Cochise 130, Dalbello Lupo TI ID (both carbon and non-carbon), and the Lange XT-130 Freetour (WTR only).

I can't recall if the Lupo's tech inserts are part of the boot, so that employing the alpine sole retains the inserts.

About the only thing I can add from my experience, is to prioritize fit (doh!), and skiability/snow sense. I suspect that the XT-130 Freetour might be your boot based on your comments about your current Langes and preference for a 97-97 last.

Binding compatibility?

Ask yourself the question whether narrowing down your choices to keep your current bindings is worth it or not. If (for example), the XT-130 is the boot that works best for your foot, then do you want a slightly compromised boot fit - only so it works with your current bindings?

When going through the above 3 contenders, I could tell in the shop (verified on snow) that there was something to the flatter Lange stance that I was going to like. The Cochise still felt fairly flat, but slightly more tipped forward than the Lange. This is an individual thing, but it's something I'd also take into consideration - especially since you like your current Langes.

Warden MNCs can be had for a fairly reasonable price (with full Alpine/ISO 9523/WTR compatibility). STH2-13's are another option (but no "official" ISO 9523 compatibility), and at a higher price, there's the Pivot 14 & 18 WTR versions.

If you're currently running Salomons, you might have 0 to 2 extra holes to drill if you go the Warden or STH2 route.

The only thing that bugs me about having a WTR sole is that demo fleets still don't have WTR compatible bindings for the most part. This will change in the next 2-3 years. I really wanted to try some ON3P's this past season, and I probably shouldn't have sold my old Titans for this reason, but I'm not much of a hoarder these days ;-)

... Thom

[XXX-er]

About the only thing I can add from my experience, is to prioritize fit (doh!), and skiability/snow sense.

no fucking kidding eh ?

[Lindahl]

Downside to tech bindings with DIN soles (Cochise) is that step-in becomes a lot more difficult. Different sole heights causes pins to close at the wrong time. Vipec works best because its spring-actuated rather than a triggered release.

[RShea]

Thin (twigs) ankle and shin should be a reason to look at Dabello. Every boot that I've tried on from them fit thinner leg pretty well. But do not know their line other than Krypton 2 and some of their inbound non-tech bindings- standard sole boots.

[gregL]

Foot deets:
- Narrow (97-98mm last preferred)
- Highish instep
- Twig shins/ankles

I would wait until you can try on the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD - it meets all the above criteria. 98mm forefoot, very stiff and very light, medium tall instep, cuff circumference is much smaller than any of the competition. Downside is you'll need WTR compatible alpine bindings if you don't already have them (STH2/Warden, Marker Sole.ID, Look Dual WTR, Tryrolia AAAttack 14 AT). The 130 may be too stiff (try them before you assume you'll need to upgrade the power strap), but they will have a 120 as well.

If you're trying to keep using a quiver of strictly ISO 9462 bindings (only compatible with 19mm + or - 1mm toe height), then you are limited to the K2 Pinnacle 130 LV, Tecnica Zero G/Cochise (all 99mm lasts), and Dalbello Lupo series. The Pinnacle Pro only comes in a 100mm last. Salomon QST tech fittings are molded into the tech sole only.

I did this last season with the Zero G Guide Pro with alpine soles installed and it worked quite well (I needed non-WTR demo binding compatibility as well).

[galibier_numero_un]

... I did this last season with the Zero G Guide Pro with alpine soles installed and it worked quite well (I needed non-WTR demo binding compatibility as well).

There's one upside to not having demo binding compatibility - potentially, a bigger checking account balance :-)

no fucking kidding eh ?

Yeah, sometimes (to save a few bucks and a few holes in our ski) we turn our priorities upside down and look at boots that fit our bindings instead of our feet ... only to slap our foreheads later.

... Thom

[doebedoe]

Thanks for the thoughts all. Yes yes, fit above all else. But if I can find something that fits as well as anything else and has a DIN sole, then its preferred.

Zero skis with WTR/ISO 9523 compatibility (may be able to adjust the STH14s enough to make it work, sorta?) And given my current quiver, it would mean more than just replacing a few clamps, as multiple skis are on their 2nd or 3rd set of holes or are mounted with sollyfit plates.

Adding the Dabello to the list. Will put my foot in others to ensure I'm not missing something important. Would like a boot I can travel with as my only boot alongside my Sollyfitted Lhasas.

[DGamms]

It's been noted in the Lange XT Freetour thread, but those boots seem to work fine with old STH bindings. I got about 60 days on the XT + STH combo last year, appropriate retention and appropriate release.

[doebedoe]

It's been noted in the Lange XT Freetour thread, but those boots seem to work fine with old STH bindings. I got about 60 days on the XT + STH combo last year, appropriate retention and appropriate release.

Good to know. 2 or 3 most-skied skis have STH so that'd be workable.

[gregL]

. . . those boots seem to work fine with old STH bindings . . .

A shop will tell you it's a no-go, but off the record I would feel fine combining an STH14/16 or 9xx binding with a WTR sole. The toe goes high enough, and the boot sole has a smooth and hard AFD contact patch. That means the Hawx Ultra XTD and Lange XT Freetour LV are possibilities. The Atomic is a pound lighter per foot, but you may prefer the way the Lange skis.

[Nevada29er]

I would wait until you can try on the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD - it meets all the above criteria. 98mm forefoot, very stiff and very light, medium tall instep, cuff circumference is much smaller than any of the competition. Downside is you'll need WTR compatible alpine bindings if you don't already have them (STH2/Warden, Marker Sole.ID, Look Dual WTR, Tryrolia AAAttack 14 AT). The 130 may be too stiff (try them before you assume you'll need to upgrade the power strap), but they will have a 120 as well.

If you're trying to keep using a quiver of strictly ISO 9462 bindings (only compatible with 19mm + or - 1mm toe height), then you are limited to the K2 Pinnacle 130 LV, Tecnica Zero G/Cochise (all 99mm lasts), and Dalbello Lupo series. The Pinnacle Pro only comes in a 100mm last. Salomon QST tech fittings are molded into the tech sole only.

I did this last season with the Zero G Guide Pro with alpine soles installed and it worked quite well (I needed non-WTR demo binding compatibility as well).

I like everything I've read about the Hawx Ultra XTD so far, except I saw you said "medium tall instep". For someone with a short instep, is this a deal breaker? I've tried the Mtn Lab, which I liked except the toe box was really cramped, and Zero G Guide, which had wider toe box but taller instep and slightly shorter length.

I've been holding out on the Hawx cause the heat moldable shell concept seems better than punching the Mtn Lab toe box.

[gregL]

I like everything I've read about the Hawx Ultra XTD so far, except I saw you said "medium tall instep". For someone with a short instep, is this a deal breaker? I've tried the Mtn Lab, which I liked except the toe box was really cramped, and Zero G Guide, which had wider toe box but taller instep and slightly shorter length.

I've been holding out on the Hawx cause the heat moldable shell concept seems better than punching the Mtn Lab toe box.

All of the Hawx Ultra boots have a relative tall instep considering the width of the forefoot, but you can turn some of that instep height into width when heat molding. I can't tell you if it will be a dealbreaker for your foot. You can always adjust the instep pressure by swapping for a thicker footbed.

Straight out of the box, I was able to ski the Hawx Ultra XTD with the instep buckle on the 2nd ladder notch, which is very rare for me in a 97-98mm last (usually I need to leave it unbuckled for a day or two). The production liner will have slightly thicker foam and will presumably feel tighter.

I have all three of the boots you mention and had to punch all of them for forefoot width. The Salomon Grilamid should be no problem for most experienced bootfitters, though punching for width will drop the overall height of the toebox some.

[XavierD]

A roomier toe box and lower instep can be found on the ZeroG which is in in the same class as the XTD and MTN. Also the only one with swappable soles.

[anotherVTskibum]

A shop will tell you it's a no-go, but off the record I would feel fine combining an STH14/16 or 9xx binding with a WTR sole. The toe goes high enough, and the boot sole has a smooth and hard AFD contact patch. That means the Hawx Ultra XTD and Lange XT Freetour LV are possibilities. The Atomic is a pound lighter per foot, but you may prefer the way the Lange skis.

I've got probably 30-35 days with XT-130s in STH14s plus another 40 in Fischer/Tyrolia race bindings, and so far (knock on wood) I've not encountered any release/retention issues. I have come out of the STHs on more than one occasion, can't recall any times where I did so on the Tyrolias. I've also got probably 10-12 days in Atomic 1018s, but I don't expect those to release anyhow. As noted, the smooth sole plate makes it seem like any binding with enough toe height should function reasonably well, even if the binding companies won't endorse the idea.

[N1CK.]

doebedoe: I have 28.5 Cochise 120 and I'm really happy with them. You're local right? If you want to try them on for fit you're welcome to.

[doebedoe]

doebedoe: I have 28.5 Cochise 120 and I'm really happy with them. You're local right? If you want to try them on for fit you're welcome to.

Am local -- but will probably be in a 26.5 or 27.5 so not sure how much a 28.5 will tell me about fit.

Dalbello Lupo TI ID and Cochise 120 are still the two boots I'm coming back to and hoping to find local to try on.

Dalbello: Pros -- 98mm last, 3 piece design, Intuition power-wrappy liner. Cons -- walk mode? Have to buy $50 DIN soles. Non-certified tech inserts. Currently $525 shipped.

Cochise: Pros -- anatomic last, proven/well reviewed touring boot, certified Dyna inserts. Cons -- a bit pricier? Looks to be ~$600.

[galibier_numero_un]

Dalbello Lupo TI ID and Cochise 120 are still the two boots I'm coming back to and hoping to find local to try on. .

Larry's in Boulder carries everything you're interested in.

... Thom

[doebedoe]

Larry's in Boulder carries everything you're interested in.

... Thom

But they don't open again til October... or at least thats my understanding?