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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    290
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    I've been reading "The Art of Paragliding" in preparation for my training. You guys have any online resources you could share? Specifically, I'm interested in seeing where you like to fly and if you have any info on the launch sites.
    I've been flying 10 years now, and lost track of my hours a long time ago. Probably closing in on 1500 or so now I would bet. A good resource would be the podcasts by Gavin McClurg, X-alp competitor, at his site www.cloudbasemayhem.com Start with his more recent episode featuring Reavis. They discuss a good bit of the classic "intermediate syndrome." That stage in flying where you know enough, but you don't know how much you don't know. That is the danger zone.

    www.paraglidingearth.com is a good place to find local sites. The best advice I can give you though as a newbie is find the local clubs/pilots associated with these sites and only fly with them during your first 100 hours. You need constant mentorship and a wingman to let you know when its good, and when its really not good and you need to stay on the ground.

    Good luck and have a blast!

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    West Coast of the East Coast
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    6,468
    Get those skillz dialed, and hit up Talcott Mtn.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    5,995
    Thanks for the encouragement Tetzen. Safety is my number one priority and I do have a great mentor. I'm committed to the journey, I definitely appreciate the manta of "it is better to be on the ground wishing you were flying than to be flying and wishing your were on the ground".

    That said, I can't wait to get in the air. I'm trying to get my official training scheduled. My ground handling and comfort with the wing is getting much better.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    No longer Alexandria, VA
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    1,100
    Very cool thread. I've got my private and instrument rating, but am not current - let that slide the past 2 years because of time commitment required. That being said, I have a hobby problem, not enough time, and would love to get into paragliding.

    Anybody from the mid-Atlantic know of good places to go for training?

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    5,995
    You can find a school through USHPA https://www.ushpa.org/page/find-a-school-or-instructor

    I now of a few fixed wind pilots who have gotten into Paramotoring (PPG) in order to reduce the cost and fly more. I know Paramotoring is quite popular in the flat lands as you don't need ridge or thermal lift as you have thrust and are not reliant on gravity to load the wing (I'm probably saying that wrong). Prepare to waste a lot of time on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxOFFVb6UO8

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    5,995
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvU...n-ouXGNXaTsUzw


    Here is one with more flying. Not sure about the inbed.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    642
    Me and my wife got our P2 7 years ago. Paragliding is one of the funnest things you can ever do, but it just isn't safe. You can minimize your risk if you stick to locations with predictable, laminar air like the PotM and coastal soaring, but accidents still happen in these locations.

    We ended up quitting because if you stick with any flying community that flies in mountainous areas, you will start seeing people dying off and paralyzing themselves every single year. Collapses happen even on safe wings and not just when landing. When the people that keep dying are the ones everyone said was the safest, most experienced flier in the group, you start to realize how much luck factors into safety.

    If I had to do it over again I would have got into speed wings, but now the danger is impacting trees and rocks, but I think you have more control over playing it safe in those regards. I don't mean to scare anyone, but it might be a good idea to watch your local group for a year and talk to them before jumping in to see what I am talking about and if that kind of risk is still acceptable, because it is so fun that it would be worth it for me if it was just me to worry about.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Central OR
    Posts
    4,933
    ^^^ interesting take. I did a tandem hang-glider flight in Missoula a few years ago. There was a crew of paragliders with us; they all said that hang-gliding is safer, but they preferred to paraglide. I wonder if they're all still at it...

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    5,995
    I'm all about minimizing risk. My mentor preaches this constantly. I'm hoping that robust training and good decision making will make the risk acceptable to me. It is certainly something I'm very aware of.

    You hear different opinions regarding the relative safety of PG, PPG and and speed flying. It just seems like the risks are different.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    642
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyoverland Captive View Post
    ^^^ interesting take. I did a tandem hang-glider flight in Missoula a few years ago. There was a crew of paragliders with us; they all said that hang-gliding is safer, but they preferred to paraglide. I wonder if they're all still at it...
    We did a tandem in Olu Deniz in Turkey and we were sold after that. Tandem is quite safe with all that weight preventing collapses. One thing about paragliders is that the ones I know are usually like me. They end up quitting when a death or accident hits too close to home, then we get stir crazy talking to each other convincing ourselves that you can somehow mitigate the risk and get back into it.

    Hang gliding is just too much stuff to pack around and while I have never done it, I just don't think the way you lay in those would feel as free as sitting in a paragliding harness. I would rather ppg before I got into hang gliding. PPG is very safe.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    5,995
    I don't know enough to agree or disagree but I'd be interested in your take on why PPG is substantially safer than PG.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    The Tits
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    Steezus, why do you think ppg is much safer? Also depending on the size of both pilot and passenger a tandem can often times have less wing loading than a solo pilot. In general more wing loading does decrease the likelihood of collapses but leads to the wing being more dynamic, everything happens faster and control inputs need to be more precise.
    "College sailing isn't about who wins the most races, its about who can stand in the morning"

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    5,995
    My control inputs are the opposite of precise. But hey...at least I know I can re-rig after an epic tangle. Swerve, we've be kiting more now that the weather has turned. I'll keep you updated.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    642
    I could be completely wrong on both, but I've not ever read any incident reports for tandem pg having collapses that result in injury or death and ppg being able to create lift drastically cuts your chance of collapse as well. Pretty much collapses and cravats are the bane of these sports.

    I know that the ppg motors aren't very reliable and you end up with accidents from unplanned landings, but that risk can be 100% mitigated by not placing yourself in a position with no safe outs. The other incidents I know are impacting other fliers, which can be mitigated to a great extent as well.

    Maybe the last few years there have been incidents, but I haven't followed these sports during that time. I briefly looked into the club for the last location we flew and was sad to see that they lost a few more fliers there to collapses.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    17,875
    Maybe 5 years ago a passenger fell off of a tandem rig down in Vancover and was killed cuz the instructor didn't secure them properly

    There is a small group of fliers here in town and some of them are pretty good, fortunately nobody has crashed
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    5,995
    Don't go learn to paraglide unless you want to get hooked on paragliding. I've got 9 flights so far. I need to go back to SLC a couple more times before I get my P2. It is pretty much the coolest thing ever. I'd show you some pics if it wasn't such a pain in the ass.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    5,863
    Quote Originally Posted by tetzen View Post
    I've been flying 10 years now, and lost track of my hours a long time ago. Probably closing in on 1500 or so now I would bet. A good resource would be the podcasts by Gavin McClurg, X-alp competitor, at his site www.cloudbasemayhem.com Start with his more recent episode featuring Reavis. They discuss a good bit of the classic "intermediate syndrome." That stage in flying where you know enough, but you don't know how much you don't know. That is the danger zone.

    www.paraglidingearth.com is a good place to find local sites. The best advice I can give you though as a newbie is find the local clubs/pilots associated with these sites and only fly with them during your first 100 hours. You need constant mentorship and a wingman to let you know when its good, and when its really not good and you need to stay on the ground.

    Good luck and have a blast!
    Reavis is an old friend of mine. When he was here in Utah this season, we got out for a ride and he and I had a chat about learning and risk mitigation in our backcountry pursuits of choice. He has always been a smart and thoughtful guy.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    BROulder
    Posts
    2,929
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Don't go learn to paraglide unless you want to get hooked on paragliding. I've got 9 flights so far. I need to go back to SLC a couple more times before I get my P2. It is pretty much the coolest thing ever. I'd show you some pics if it wasn't such a pain in the ass.
    Have you checked out the north boulder site yet ?

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    5,995
    Quote Originally Posted by WTF is dat View Post
    Have you checked out the north boulder site yet ?
    I have not. Despite my enthusiasm, I am most certainly a novice. I still need to purchase my equipment with the advice of my instructor(s). My harness, glider and reserve is probably gonna run me about $5K which is a big chunk for me.

    Is that N Boulder site a practice hill? That is really want I need I place to practice my launch, approach, final, landing.

  20. #45
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    Mar 2010
    Location
    BROulder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    I have not. Despite my enthusiasm, I am most certainly a novice. I still need to purchase my equipment with the advice of my instructor(s). My harness, glider and reserve is probably gonna run me about $5K which is a big chunk for me.

    Is that N Boulder site a practice hill? That is really want I need I place to practice my launch, approach, final, landing.
    There is a good sized landing zone so it is easy in that respect.

    There are 3 or 4 different launches. YMMV but I think as a beginner the north boulder site is good. Itís probably one of the better sites for beginners

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Providence RI
    Posts
    2,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Is that N Boulder site a practice hill? That is really want I need I place to practice my launch, approach, final, landing.
    It's certainly an easy site (it's where I first learned to speedfly) but it's not without risks: Paraglider critically injured in crash near Wonderland Lake. My buddy almost died there under a paraglider about 10 years ago as well. Just go with someone experienced so you know when to walk down. Great site for short sled runs though

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    349
    If you ever move to SLC, practice at the POTM a lot! Top land the south side as much as possible, work on spot landings and ground handling a lot. It is one of the best places to get good fast. The better you are the more safe you can be. On your next time out there if you see someone flying the top ridge at the northside with a speedwing it is probably me. Come say hi.

    Here's some wasatch speed flying eye candy for you all. Disclaimer, I'd flown about 700hrs+ before I flew this line and literally had zero wind that day making it possible to get airborne safely and be skimming the ground. There are also times when conditions are not what you expect and you need to back down and say another day:

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    5,995
    Sick flying Orash! I'm thinking my future is more "leisure pilot" than "speed riding" but who knows. I have been training with Superfly at POTM and can't waiting to get back. My brain pretty much goes family>work>flying.

    Colouirman, thanks for the Boulder info. As is appropriate, the safety advice is "be humble and aware...you might fucking die!"

    I just check a site outside of Kremmling called Williams. Looks like a really nice P2 launch. Anyone flown there?

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The line less skied......
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Sick flying Orash! I'm thinking my future is more "leisure pilot" than "speed riding" but who knows. I have been training with Superfly at POTM and can't waiting to get back. My brain pretty much goes family>work>flying.

    Colouirman, thanks for the Boulder info. As is appropriate, the safety advice is "be humble and aware...you might fucking die!"

    I just check a site outside of Kremmling called Williams. Looks like a really nice P2 launch. Anyone flown there?
    Williams has been a great HG site with some PG activity. As primarily a summer site due to access, it has seen PG flights and at least one fatality. A late evening glassoff could be pretty sweet......

    I've flown France, SoCal, CB, Vail, Aspen, Lookout and NoBo, but not alot since the '96 Nationals in Aspen. Walshes and Ruthies are classic. Find Granger in NoBo for the local info and he can help with any certs you may need.

    Be safe, my best decisions were to stay on the ground at Loveland Pass and Soboba, reasons why I'm still here today. Can't stress that enough.
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    "One Dollar, cheaper than a lift ticket and it lasts forever" Powder Winter 72-73 Issue #1

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    The Tits
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    568
    Foggy, shoot me a text if you're planning on going out there. I'd love to check it out and could use some easy sled rides to get back into things.
    "College sailing isn't about who wins the most races, its about who can stand in the morning"

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