The Secrete to Ancient Roman Concrete

[charles martel]

How about those Romans, eh?

Perhaps one answer to rising sea levels.

A new look inside 2,000-year-old concrete - made from volcanic ash, lime (the product of baked limestone), and seawater - has provided new clues to the evolving chemistry and mineral cements that allow ancient harbor structures to withstand the test of time. The research has also inspired a hunt for the original recipe so that modern concrete manufacturers can do as the Romans did.

A team of researchers working at the Department of Energy's Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) used X-rays to study samples of Roman concrete - from an ancient pier and breakwater sites - at microscopic scales to learn more about the makeup of their mineral cements.

The team's earlier work at Berkeley Lab's Advanced Light Source (ALS), an X-ray research center known as a synchrotron, found that crystals of aluminous tobermorite, a layered mineral, played a key role in strengthening the concrete as they grew in relict lime particles. The new study, published today in American Mineralogist, is helping researchers to piece together how and where this mineral formed during the long history of the concrete structures.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...-nso063017.php

[NoPostholio]

I was just about to post this in science thread - as someone that has either rebuilt or inspected structures that vary from 25-125 years old, it has constantly amazed me how the concrete skill set has devolved to almost luck or guesswork. We don't have the engineers or the journeymen to replicate work of the Incas, Aztecs, Egyptians or Romans. Construction was the foundation of these societies, figuratively and literally - and now it is a novelty and maintenance of said structures is a complete junkshow.

[charles martel]

I was just about to post this in science thread - as someone that has either rebuilt or inspected structures that vary from 25-125 years old, it has constantly amazed me how the concrete skill set has devolved to almost luck or guesswork. We don't have the engineers or the journeymen to replicate work of the Incas, Aztecs, Egyptians or Romans. Construction was the foundation of these societies, figuratively and literally - and now it is a novelty and maintenance of said structures is a complete junkshow.

Yep. You've got the Pantheon, Brunelleschi's dome, the Pont du Gard to begin with a few. Chartres Cathedral with its flyers and San Vitale, which uses a honeycomb of stacked vases in the vaulting to both lighten and strengthen.

Plus, a whole lot more. Pretty amazing.

You have a neat job.

Agree about the contemporary junk show.

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[NoPostholio]

I love geeking out on ancient structures - this is more stone work than cement, but the craftsmen that did the irregular stone walls with like microscopic mortar gaps is mind blowing. I can't find the link now, but there is a site somewhere in south america? where the walls are handed (mirror image and totally irregular) - each stone weighing in tons. Those dudes were heavy duty stoners.

http://davidpratt.info/andes2.htm

[Soups]

I love geeking out on ancient structures - this is more stone work than cement, but the craftsmen that did the irregular stone walls with like microscopic mortar gaps is mind blowing. I can't find the link now, but there is a site somewhere in south america? where the walls are handed (mirror image and totally irregular) - each stone weighing in tons. Those dudes were heavy duty stoners.

http://davidpratt.info/andes2.htm

Well, there is a widely renowned explanation for this...

[Kirby]

Ha... Just started reading "Fingerprints of the Gods" last night.

[NoPostholio]

Ha... Just started reading "Fingerprints of the Gods" last night.

Lol - me too now
thanks for recommendation as it is right up my alley and I needed a book

[charles martel]

Ha... Just started reading "Fingerprints of the Gods" last night.

Crackpot stuff:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kristina...s-of-the-gods/

https://badarchaeology.wordpress.com...n-cartography/



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[hutash]

Entertaining, but yeah, crack pot stuff that too many people actually believe, or at least think is plausible.

I thought we were beyond this long ago after Chariots of Fire BS

[NoPostholio]

Crackpot stuff:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kristina...s-of-the-gods/

https://badarchaeology.wordpress.com...n-cartography/



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How about a debunkers spoiler alert - I'm on like page 25!!!!

Entertaining, but yeah, crack pot stuff that too many people actually believe, or at least think is plausible.

I thought we were beyond this long ago after Chariots of Fire BS

Some of it borders on the crackpot ish, but both those articles went into specific points in the book that they had a prohlem with. Until some trumpkin can explain eastern island lining up in a straight line with machu piccu and the great pyramid, the nazca lines or how those maps in question had longitude down to less than half a degree in most cases - a full five centuries ahead of timekeeping that would allow that kind of accuracy, I will continue to prepare to welcome our Viracochian overlords.

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[charles martel]

How about a debunkers spoiler alert - I'm on like page 25!!!!


Some of it borders on the crackpot ish, but both those articles went into specific points in the book that they had a prohlem with. Until some trumpkin can explain eastern island lining up in a straight line with machu piccu and the great pyramid, the nazca lines or how those maps in question had longitude down to less than half a degree in most cases - a full five centuries ahead of timekeeping that would allow that kind of accuracy, I will continue to prepare to welcome our Viracochian overlords.

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"Some of it borders on the crackpot, but ...?"

Geez, thanks professor!

This stuff is wrong. Re-read the Forbes article. It's based on older stuff that has been disproven. Or, apply for a science job with the Trump Administration.

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[NoPostholio]

Nobody thought much on the bulk of particle physics a 100 years ago either. The book is somewhat more interesting than whether or not the Pre Reis map was Antarctica or elsewhere. Like his theory or not, there is a startling amount of similarities in creation theory and construction practice amongst cultures prior to the 1500s that pragmatically should not have had contact to share such intel. So while his map presumptions could well be wrong, he raises a lot of interesting questions about the incas especially. The spaniards were ruthlessly efficient in their extermination of incan society, but they documented meticulously the pre written history of the entire continent to apparently ease their conscience and aid in subsequent research.

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[hutash]

Nobody thought much on the bulk of particle physics a 100 years ago either. The book is somewhat more interesting than whether or not the Pre Reis map was Antarctica or elsewhere. Like his theory or not, there is a startling amount of similarities in creation theory and construction practice amongst cultures prior to the 1500s that pragmatically should not have had contact to share such intel. So while his map presumptions could well be wrong, he raises a lot of interesting questions about the incas especially. The spaniards were ruthlessly efficient in their extermination of incan society, but they documented meticulously the pre written history of the entire continent to apparently ease their conscience and aid in subsequent research.

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I have a bridge for sale, PM your cell# for price and details.

[Dantheman]

as someone that has either rebuilt or inspected structures that vary from 25-125 years old, it has constantly amazed me how the concrete skill set has devolved to almost luck or guesswork.

How is this possible in the modern era? Simple proliferation of the Walmart business model? Planned obsolescence/deterioration for job security? Concrete is a complete sub-field of science. We should be able to produce concrete that puts the Roman shit to shame.

Invoking aliens and other such nonsense to explain ancient construction projects is an insult to the intelligence, ingenuity and legacy of those ancient peoples.

[charles martel]

How is this possible in the modern era? Simple proliferation of the Walmart business model? Planned obsolescence/deterioration for job security? Concrete is a complete sub-field of science. We should be able to produce concrete that puts the Roman shit to shame.

Invoking aliens and other such nonsense to explain ancient construction projects is an insult to the intelligence, ingenuity and legacy of those ancient peoples.

Absolutely spot on, the sentence I've highlighted above.

Unless, of course, you're an other world alien who is here as a disinformation "fake news" specialist.

[hutash]

Personally i await the return of our reptilian overlords. I just hope they get here before all the concrete goes to shit.

[beer30]

I visited Rome this summer, mindblowing in so many aspects. Cant wait to get down that way again

[hutash]

Yeah, it is amazing what those ignorant Romans could do with alien help.

[hutash]

Just move them in line with Easter Island, Machu Picchu, and Giza and your work will be done.

[NoPostholio]

I'm gonna need to split some 8"concrete blocks and plan on waiting for NoPostholio to invoke some alien power to help me.

I will be there and will welcome any help from our alien civil construction overlords

[old goat]

Caltrans engineers should have studied that Roman concrete. The concrete section of I80 through the Sierra that they just finished rebuilding is already falling apart. Deep ruts in the right hand lanes, cracks and potholes. They're also having to replace the new concrete on the bridge over the Sacramento River on Business 80.

There is some fine mortarless stonework on the south side of old Hwy 40 just east of Donner Pass--done by the Chinese building the railroad.

[hutash]

Caltrans engineers should have studied that Roman concrete. The concrete section of I80 through the Sierra that they just finished rebuilding is already falling apart. Deep ruts in the right hand lanes, cracks and potholes. They're also having to replace the new concrete on the bridge over the Sacramento River on Business 80.

Proof that we can not pour concrete without alien help.

There is some fine mortarless stonework on the south side of old Hwy 40 just east of Donner Pass--done by the Chinese building the railroad.

After all the Chinese were aliens here in the US, proof once more.

[old goat]

Proof that we can not pour concrete without alien help.



After all the Chinese were aliens here in the US, proof once more.

Pretty sure there were plenty of aliens re building I80--the undocumented kind.

[auvgeek]

What's a good popular book on this stuff (i.e., the ingenuity of ancient culture and discrepancies in history) that's not crackpot stuff? I'm interested, and it seems like a good present for my mom.

*The Antikythera mechanism is another example of this, but I don't know much about the history of cartography or ancient materials

[buttahflake]

I'm gonna need to suck some 8" cocks and plan on waiting for NoPostholio to invoke some alien power to help me.

Fixed that for ya