Chamonix trip, how to

[montanaskier]

The wife and I are heading to France next year in Feb I think to celebrate our 20th anniversary. I'd love to hear some ideas about the best way to do the trip. What month is best? Fly into Paris and take the train? Fly into Geneva? How long a trip is the train from Paris? How expensive is the train? Where to stay in the valley? Hire a guide? Possible to ski Italy or Switzerland easily from Cham? Hit me with your knowledge!

[hutash]

Not sure what happened to my rrsponse, but I recommend Francis Kelsey as a guide...www.nosiesta.com. If you want to get out of the resorts that is they way to go and you can easily ski Italy and Switzerland.

Geneva is the easiest way to get to Cham, but if you want to hit Paris first it is doable. Cham is a fun town, lots of lodging options at various price levels.

[LeoK]

Hi,

if you are flying in to Geneva you get connected to the expensive but good public transport in Switzerland that will bring you to swiss resorts (general direction Verbier is good from there). The direct connection from Cham to Switzerland is good by car but not by public transport (as far as I know) even so there might be a bus running.

So I guess I would add a few days in the end of the trip if the conditions in Cham don't turn out the way that makes you stay there.



Italy is the also difficult but the Italian side of Mont-Blanc is the same resort so easily reached by shuttle bus.

There are multi-day ski-touring options that take you to Italy and Switzerland.

If you don't want to hire a guide then maybe a little literature recommendation will do you good: Chamonix Off Piste by Burnier and Potard - the Book describes a lot of descents in all areas of Chamonix, many of them on glaciers and in alpine terrain.

/Leo

[hutash]

Getting to/from Geneva is super easy. Tons of shuttles at a reasonable price. Public buses as well, but not as convenient. There are trains from Cham into Switzerland and other public options. Driving is easy, so renting a car is a good option.

[Buster Highmen]

February is the school winter holiday, so things can be more crowded.
Geneva is slightly better access for train to Martigny, then up to Vallorcine, then Chamonix.

Access to Italy (Courmayeur with La Thuile and Val d'Aosta close) is via a tunnel with lots of bus access.

What are you looking for in the trip?

Here's a great train link: https://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html with schedules, fares, etc

Where to stay and what to do depend on your objectives.

[Buster Highmen]

Here's another great resource:

https://www.rome2rio.com/ .

On heading up from Martigny, specify Vallorcine Station to get the train route info from Geneva through Martigny and Vallorcine to Chamonix.

A great place to stay in Geneva is the Hotel Strasbourg, right next to the main train station in Geneva, le Gare Cornavin. It's nice to rest and adjust there for a day before heading out and on the way back.

While you can ski into CH and IT from Chamonix, not even the craziest Cham d00ds do that often. Most of the skiing just goes back down into the Cham valley.

Of all the bases, I liked Argentiere the best for more regular skiing a opposed to the ropes and crampons outings.

[montanaskier]

February is the school winter holiday, so things can be more crowded.
Geneva is slightly better access for train to Martigny, then up to Vallorcine, then Chamonix.

Access to Italy (Courmayeur with La Thuile and Val d'Aosta close) is via a tunnel with lots of bus access.

What are you looking for in the trip?

Here's a great train link: https://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html with schedules, fares, etc

Where to stay and what to do depend on your objectives.

So we're leaning toward flying into Paris and getting to Cham that way and having a day on either end in Paris. As for what we're looking for in Cham....good skiiing but not the death gnar but some off piste for sure (valley Blanche?). Nice lodging, more than a hostel but not the Ritz. Central and easy to get around. Open to a day trip to Switzerland or Italy if it's worth it and relatively simple.

[Buster Highmen]

My favorite time to go is late January because it's less crowded than February and sometimes there's better deals on rooms plus fewer lines for stuff.
Paris to Chamonix proper is 6 hours by trains with one change.

From Chamonix valley, there's easy access to Courmayeur in Italy via buses through the tunnel. Switzerland is trickier.

Having a car makes a lot of things more accessible like the Aosta Valley in Italy and Verbier in Switzerland.

If you're set on Chamonix, cool. It's got a lot of resources for food, skiing and drinking. Public transit from Vallorcine through Argentiere, Lavancher, Chamonix proper and Les Houches works but can be a hassle.

If apres ski is a goal, stay in Chamonix proper.

http://www.bergfex.com/

[Danno]

Following this thread

[concretejungle]

Following this thread

He's not going to be able to freak out about the weather for a few months.

[Buster Highmen]

One thing that I found different about Chamonix relative to other large Euro ski areas is that the various bases (Les Houches, Aiguille du Midi, Brevent-Flegere, Grands Montets, Vallorcine) are non ski interconnected. You have to drive/take a train/ride a bus to get from one to another. Even Brevent-Flegere require a cable car ride, the Liason.

Other places I'd been like the Milky Way, Serre Chevalier, Trois Vallees or Verbier have ridiculously large interconnected lift systems.

There's great reasons to go through Paris. Like Paris. But Paris can be a headache to get into and out of. If you're staying in Paris, make sure you've got your plan for access to the Gare de Lyon where you'd catch the train to Cham.

[Foggy_Goggles]

I'm not anti-Cham. In fact, under the right circumstances, it is awesome. That said, If I was going on vacation with my wife, it would be pretty low on the list. The culture is...British?

I don't know if people follow through with Buster's suggestions but if you give enough info, he'll tell you how to do it. Search old threads but I think the following questions will help you be pointed in the right direction.

When?
How Long?
How much $?
Car Rental?
Busy or quiet?
Snow conditions or terrain?
Type of skiing you enjoy?
Ability to self guide?
Comfort level with glacial travel?
Desired non-skiing experience?

[hutash]

Foggy and Buster get it. Cham is not the best choice for resort skiing, there are better. That said, I think it is just about the most beautiful valley in the alps, and one of the better ski towns if you stay in Cham proper. It is best if you want to get off piste. Lots more to do if you want to climb, and easy access up the valley to some of the smaller towns. Though more crowded, I liked stay in Cham proper and not in the smaller towns. If you want quiet the other towns are that, but you can get a free train pass at most hotels and get up or down valley easily.

[auvgeek]

Another vote that Cham is only really a top choice if you and your wife ski reasonably well (like can make it down most named ski runs in 'Merica) and can/want to ski off-piste—meaning either you're comfortable with glacier travel/crevasse rescue or can afford to hire a guide most days*. Going to Cham to ski the piste seems like flying to Yosemite to boulder. Unless you're specifically going for the views and the scene, there are probably places that are less crowded/expensive and just as fun.

Fill out Foggy's questionaire, and buster, klar, hutash, etc, will give you solid recs.

*yeah, plenty of people ski on the glaciers solo and without gear, but it seems like that requires local knowledge and/or a ton of glacier experience to do safely.

[Buster Highmen]

Cham is all that and a box of harnesses.

It's just that there's a whole lot of awesome skiing, viewing, eating and drinking in the Alps aside from Cham.

I'm reading that Paris is part of the objective in part due to romantic factors and maybe just seeing Paris.

When we had similar objectives, we opted to ski more around the fringes and spent a week in Florence, Italy absorbing art, wine, food and history.

[knowsam]

I’m by no means a Cham expert, but as a North American expat, living in London who tries to ski on the continent as often as I can, here's what I can share from my experience:

- For Cham rent a car - you can easily get there from Geneva / Leon. You've mentioned spending some time in Paris to book end the trip - that is also a very doable drive (though longer than from either Leon or Geneva).

- Cham Valley has a collection of little town centres and a car is very useful to get between them, it's not as easy to resort hop on lifts as other places. You'll want to be able to get over to the Grand Montets (my personal favourite of the ski areas and has great off-piste if the top gondola is running) and to see the Aiguille du Midi (even if you're not skiing the VB, the station itself is pretty spectacular).

- As Buster noted - you can take a bus to Courmayuer (Italy) really easily. Even if I had a car, I'd bus, you'll want to experience the Italian ski experience of a good lunch and a few drinks to go with it (definitely grab a round of Bombardios (sp?)

- With a car from Cham and 7-10 days, it's VERY feasible to do a number of day trips to some of the classic Swiss and French resorts - and to pay French (not Swiss) hotel prices. Plus a car means that you can stay 3 minutes up the street and not have to pay Cham town centre prices.

- If it's a long flight or a once in a lifetime trip - the extra cash for a car is 100% worth it and makes it so easy to go from skiing in Cham, so 2-3 day in Cham (maybe one not guided, one off-piste on the Grand Montets and one doing the VB), a day in Courmayeur and a day or two in Switzerland.

- Be prepared for there to be way less snow than you're used to in NA (or Japan), it's a different scene for snow (usually) but still super, super cool.

[knowsam]

Oh yeah, totally a side bar, but because I just learned of it - if you fly the atlantic on Air Iceland, you can stop over in Iceland for up to a week without paying for extra airfare. If you're looking to bookend with Paris that's an alternative (but Paris is also very cool, it'd be a tough choice).

[hutash]

Oh yeah, totally a side bar, but because I just learned of it - if you fly the atlantic on Air Iceland, you can stop over in Iceland for up to a week without paying for extra airfare. If you're looking to bookend with Paris that's an alternative (but Paris is also very cool, it'd be a tough choice).

Damn, I wished I didn't see this, now I have to start thinking about doing this

[Mr. Mike]

So we're leaning toward flying into Paris and getting to Cham that way and having a day on either end in Paris. As for what we're looking for in Cham....good skiiing but not the death gnar but some off piste for sure (valley Blanche?). Nice lodging, more than a hostel but not the Ritz. Central and easy to get around. Open to a day trip to Switzerland or Italy if it's worth it and relatively simple.

Picking up on what Buster said, you really want to try to minimize intersection with French school holidays. And, if you do end up in Cham, take a look at UK schedule too because as someone else noted, it's very popular with the Brits. The UK holiday is very concentrated, at just one week. France splits the country into 3 zones and each zone has 2 weeks over a 4 week period, so there is significant overlap. If you go to Europe on a week when the UK is all out and 2 of the 3 french zones are out, it can be a mess. here's next year's schedule, so you can see Feb 18-March 4 will be hectic in french resorts.

A 11 Feb 2018 25 Feb 2018
C 18 Feb 2018 4 Mar 2018
B 25 Feb 2018 11 Mar 2018

I echo what others have said above though. Cham is only the top Euro option for a handful of skiers.

[montanaskier]

I'm not anti-Cham. In fact, under the right circumstances, it is awesome. That said, If I was going on vacation with my wife, it would be pretty low on the list. The culture is...British?

I don't know if people follow through with Buster's suggestions but if you give enough info, he'll tell you how to do it. Search old threads but I think the following questions will help you be pointed in the right direction.

When?
How Long?
How much $?
Car Rental?
Busy or quiet?
Snow conditions or terrain?
Type of skiing you enjoy?
Ability to self guide?
Comfort level with glacial travel?
Desired non-skiing experience?

Great stuff guys keep it coming. I do like the idea of Paris and so does my wife who has been a couple of times before. But at this point we're open to Italy or Switzerland as well I suppose....as for the questions....

When? Flexible to some degree, but could coincide with winter break here but can do it anytime really

Long- 7-10 days

Money- don't want to refinance the house to pay for it but don't wanna skimp either, id want to keep it under 8k

I'd rather not rent a car and rely on public transportation but if a car is the best way to do it proper then that's ok

Busy or quiet? Middle of the road. We aren't 22 but a night or two or a lively apre scene is fine

Snow or terrain- again probably middle of the road. Who doesn't love deep pow but skiing rad stuff is fine too. We're older and not into deadly consequence (they all can have that) anymore but steep, long, etc....is fine

Type of skiing? Another middle of the road. We ski a mix of resort and backcountry here and while in vacation I'm not interested in multi day long hauls, we're fine with off piste touring, but also ok with resort laps if it's a cool spot, good terrain, good snow, etc...

Self guide- probably could but never done any glacier skiing so a guide would probably be the route we'd take for peace of mind

Glacier- see above

Non skiing experience- again Paris would be sweet, but Italy or other areas in the area for that European vibe would be fine as well. Not really city people so small towns or villages would be great outside of Paris... cause it's Paris. Nightlife and such not a huge deal. Good food, good vibe, good apre scene, some nightlife, history, scenery, etc...

[LegoSkier]

https://www.qcterme.com/en/pre-saint...e-saint-didier
I'll talk this place up every chance I get as far as top quality romantic apres-ski soaking in hot water type experiences. Ski Courmayeur, eat copious awesome Italian food, watch sunset over Monte Bianca while relaxing on a reclining bubble rack in toasty hot water.

[Buster Highmen]

..

When? Flexible to some degree, but could coincide with winter break here but can do it anytime really

Then go either late January up through the first week of February.

Long- 7-10 days

Go for 10 if you want to relax a little, 7 days is a little short I think.

Money- don't want to refinance the house to pay for it but don't wanna skimp either, id want to keep it under 8k

That should be easy. I can do a 10 day solo for a little over $2k when airfares were around $600.

I'd rather not rent a car and rely on public transportation but if a car is the best way to do it proper then that's ok

This depends a lot on how much exploring you want to do.
IF you really want to stay in one place like Cham or as the sagacious Lego suggests, Courmayeur, or any number of great ski areas, you don't really need a car.
ELSE IF you're feeling more adventurous and want to explore and you're not in Switzerland, get a car.

I like to explore and I've found Switzerland really easy to get around an ski a lot of different places. France and Italy are trickier without a car.

Busy or quiet? Middle of the road. We aren't 22 but a night or two or a lively apre scene is fine

Staying in a more central location like Cham proper will make going out a lot easier. The trains and busses in Cham work pretty well unless you're out past the frequent operating hours, then it can be a pain. Verbier has a really lively bar and restaurant scene too, some pounding EuroDiscos available there and in Cham for maximum hearing loss.

Part of the reason I like to explore around Yrup is to see quieter sides and less globalized parts of Yrup.
Cham is Cham and it's kind of a Mecca type trip, but as others have mentioned, there are lots of other places that just kill it in the ski department, apres ski as well as just really different.

Snow or terrain- again probably middle of the road. Who doesn't love deep pow but skiing rad stuff is fine too. We're older and not into deadly consequence (they all can have that) anymore but steep, long, etc....is fine

Cham is funny because when the conditions are really killer, sometimes the Aiguille du Midi is out with visibility or stability issues, but Grands Montets can be awesome. That's what it was like when I was there last. But if I can rerereiterate, Cham is not the be all end all. There's a lot of other places that have more consistently good skiing snow.

Type of skiing? Another middle of the road. We ski a mix of resort and backcountry here and while in vacation I'm not interested in multi day long hauls, we're fine with off piste touring, but also ok with resort laps if it's a cool spot, good terrain, good snow, etc...

Cham has everything really, but is kind of better suited for the l00ny guided stuff and longer tours.

Self guide- probably could but never done any glacier skiing so a guide would probably be the route we'd take for peace of mind

Glacier- see above

Non skiing experience- again Paris would be sweet, but Italy or other areas in the area for that European vibe would be fine as well. Not really city people so small towns or villages would be great outside of Paris... cause it's Paris. Nightlife and such not a huge deal. Good food, good vibe, good apre scene, some nightlife, history, scenery, etc...

So yeah, Cham is awesome and is the ne plus ultra kind of spot that is foremost in lots of minds and objectives. And it's all there, from the lux buffwads to the skanky slimewallows. So your easy solution is to stay in Cham proper, hire a guide for a couple of days to do some stuff off the midi and Grands Montets with other days checking out La Tour, Courmayeur and maybe even Les Marecottes, all easily accessible via train or bus.

But I'll put a bug in your ear about options like Briancon (car not necessary, but really useful to get to la Grave, the Milky Way, the Maurienne Valley and Trois Vallees). Or Switzerland like Engleberg which is huDge and will easily satisfy virtually everything Cham can (short of skiing the Dru or some other l00ny line). Or an Andermatt/Disentis/Davos/Klosters Swiss train trip which is so fucking easy and beautiful not to mention glitzing around Sankt Moritz where the mink stoll people don't sully your powder. Or Cervinia/Zermatt. Or MonteRosa (Champoluc/Gressoney/Alagna) which is remote, fickle with snow but right up there in the pantheon of mountain nirvanas. Or the Dolomites which I'm planning on hitting myself, never been, but legendary skiing and food.

Other than Paris, there's Florence, Italy that's easy to get to within a day from anywhere in the Alps. Milan is an amazing city and even Turin is cool. From either of those cities, one can train it to Oulx on the edge of the Milky Way.

[Kevo]

I was there in early March this year. We got something like 6 feet of snow in 4 days. Truly a magical place.

Geneva is by far the easiest airport to fly into. No need to train- shuttles are cheap and fast. Wish I had more time to check out the Italian and Swiss sides of the range, but Cham blew me away. It is really worth considering getting a guide. "Easy" runs like the Vallee Blanche can quickly turn into route finding nightmares if you lose visibility and you need to know where the crevasses are and carry crevasse gear.

I stayed with Gary Bigham's family up in Argentiere. It's close to Grand Montets ski area and an easy bus ride down the valley to Chamonix. Can't recommend Gary enough if you are open to a home stay. He's is an incredible host and staying with him made the trip that much better.

[Buster Highmen]

Again, innert00b resources:
Euro skiing, resorts, hotels:
http://www.bergfex.com/oesterreich/ (click "ski resorts" for country listing and drill down as appropriate)
Trains:
Swiss, also does most of the Alps: https://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html
France: http://www.sncf.com/en/passengers .

General how to get around with hotel links:
https://www.rome2rio.com/

[Foggy_Goggles]

Everything Buster said except Le Tour....it's the Keystone of France.

In case it's not obvious...it is just completely fucking different in every way. It is really worth sitting down and having a beer with someone that has been a few times. It is just hard to explain on the internets.

You'd have a great time in Cham but it wouldn't be on my list. My wife if a good snowboarder and has skied Grand Envers, ENSA etc. in Cham with me unguided. She much preferred Courmayeur for a thousand reasons including terrain, vibe, accomodations, food etc.

My opinion is that the weather situation is gonna dictate what you want to ski/do. Generally, the Alps have larger in frequent storms. There is much less below tree line skiing at many places. The progression based on where you are at in the storm and avalanche cycle seems to go storm skiing [trees/coffee/getting wet]>easy access off piste>touring>mountaineering.

If you are adventurous and go during a slow time, consider a ticket to a major airport and figuring out the specifics closer to the time.

Unless you could commit to going to 1 or 2 places accessible easily by train, I'd get a car. Trains are cool but they are aren't particularly inexpensive and the schedules can be inconvenient.

In Courmeyeur http://www.vacanzemontebianco.com/en...le-laurent-en/

Family owed, included Esspresso, walking distance to the tram...etc.