Wrenchin... Adventures under the hood... Put em here.

[powdrhound]

The Rover got some new horns last weekend. You never know how much you use those fucking things till they're both dead.

Seriously? The HORNS failed?

Is that expected Rover quality?

Sad.

[highangle]

French horns are weak.

[Todd Zander]

our old 2012 focus had non-functioning horns, in 2015. junk corroded connectors that ford refused to fix for free.

horns were so much simpler when they were self grounded

[margotron]

Seriously? The HORNS failed?

Is that expected Rover quality?

Sad.

How do you get a toaster oven to leak oil? Let the british build it

[snowaddict91]

Been having 4wd problems in my 2012 f150. It was engaging fine but making an awful popping noise under load (uphill,etc.) IWEs/hubs were functioning fine, mechanic narrowed down the noise to the t-case. Seemed suspect to me that a tcase would fail in something that new, but it is what it is. Shop put in the new tcase today and now they are telling me there is a noise from the front diff that wasn't there before.
They are going to pull the cover tomorrow am and see what's going on but he told me that "the tcase could have caused the diff to fail or vice-versa" makes no sense to me?! Any thoughts from those smarter than I? I'm thinking they must have missed a sensor or something cause i drover around with the hubs locked while testing them and there was no noise.

[MakersTeleMark]

Could be front drive shaft U joints or slack in the driveline.

[snowaddict91]

Yeah, they claimed they pulled the front drive line and narrowed the original noise down to the tcase. There was no drive line slack when I checked over the hubs/cvs/etc.

I'm starting to think they are fucking incompetent and I don't know what to do at this point.

[MakersTeleMark]

I don't know what to tell you without looking at it.

4wd systems on a pickup are pretty simple. Transfercase, driveline, diff, axle, hubs.

[snowaddict91]

I know. They are trying to say "the bad t-case could have took out the diff" which makes no sense to me especially since I hardly drove it since the issue started and the diff made no noise when I brought it in.

I guess I'm just venting. Hopefully they'll get it figured out in the morning.

[MakersTeleMark]

Yeah, that makes no sense. The tcase engages the front driveshaft which enters the diff. Either the driveshaft is spinning or it is not. Your diff doesn't talk to the tcase. Post up what comes of it.

[snowaddict91]

Just got back from the shop and they already pulled the front diff cover. *shockingly* the gears look great with hardly any shavings in the oil. After talking to the tech I think he's afraid they jumped the gun on the transfer case. They are gonna dig in deep tomorrow and the GM assured me they will "make it right." I'll be awaiting their phone call. Next time its Bobmc's shop or bust for my rigs.

[MakersTeleMark]

Well at least you got a fluid change out of it.

[highangle]

Been having 4wd problems in my 2012 f150. It was engaging fine but making an awful popping noise under load (uphill,etc.) IWEs/hubs were functioning fine, mechanic narrowed down the noise to the t-case. Seemed suspect to me that a tcase would fail in something that new, but it is what it is. Shop put in the new tcase today and now they are telling me there is a noise from the front diff that wasn't there before.
They are going to pull the cover tomorrow am and see what's going on but he told me that "the tcase could have caused the diff to fail or vice-versa" makes no sense to me?! Any thoughts from those smarter than I? I'm thinking they must have missed a sensor or something cause i drover around with the hubs locked while testing them and there was no noise.

Not smarter than you, but I like to talk so...

1. A "popping" noise sounds like axles 'wrapping' from being locked in on dry road? Even tangent sections of paved roads are crowned a little. This will eventually load a front half-shaft and ring gear if the axles can't differentiate.

2. Most Ford TCs are [Borg Warner and New Process] chain drive units, and use a fluid coupling to clutch in/out and connect the front driveline. Old design. If the fluid is out of spec, it could conceivably fuck with the fluid coupling and cause a "popping" as it clutches in and out according to how many bubbles the subspec fuid is making in the clutchpac at the time. There's a thing about Mercon V in Ford TCs too, but I have to assume your man knows more about this than me. Ford makes Transfer Case Fluid XL-12 [Valvoline "Dex/Merc" meets Ford's new TC fluid spec for 1/4-1/3 the price]

3. Fkn bad u-joints can "pop" and "clunk.

4. Fkn tie rod ends, sway bars, panhard bar can all go "clunk" at certain times, esp if worn.

[ncskier]

Been having 4wd problems in my 2012 f150. It was engaging fine but making an awful popping noise under load (uphill,etc.) IWEs/hubs were functioning fine, mechanic narrowed down the noise to the t-case. Seemed suspect to me that a tcase would fail in something that new, but it is what it is. Shop put in the new tcase today and now they are telling me there is a noise from the front diff that wasn't there before.
They are going to pull the cover tomorrow am and see what's going on but he told me that "the tcase could have caused the diff to fail or vice-versa" makes no sense to me?! Any thoughts from those smarter than I? I'm thinking they must have missed a sensor or something cause i drover around with the hubs locked while testing them and there was no noise.

Maybe it was the vacuum lines for the hubs causing it to slip in and out of 4wd. I've read numerous stories of IWE vacuum issues. A lot cheaper to fix than an entire transfer case.

[snowaddict91]

Maybe it was the vacuum lines for the hubs causing it to slip in and out of 4wd. I've read numerous stories of IWE vacuum issues. A lot cheaper to fix than an entire transfer case.

I'm pretty sure its the IWEs and I told them that last week. The vacuum actually disengages the hubs so a leak would case them to stay engaged. I actually bypassed the vacuum while troubleshooting this myself and my working theory is that the splines in the iwe/hub are worn and causing the slip only under load. I didn't have time/ability to do the iwes mid-winter myself so off to the shop it went. They actually replaced the driver's side due to a different issue a few months ago so my bet is they installed it poorly or the pass side is going out now.

When they said they narrowed it down to the t-case I believed them but at this point I think they are fucking incompetent. Still waiting their call this am with their findings, but I'm very confident nothing is wrong with the diff or t-case. If they can't figure it out I may just tell them swap out the IWEs and see if I'm right lol.

[snowaddict91]

Not smarter than you, but I like to talk so...

1. A "popping" noise sounds like axles 'wrapping' from being locked in on dry road? Even tangent sections of paved roads are crowned a little. This will eventually load a front half-shaft and ring gear if the axles can't differentiate.

2. Most Ford TCs are [Borg Warner and New Process] chain drive units, and use a fluid coupling to clutch in/out and connect the front driveline. Old design. If the fluid is out of spec, it could conceivably fuck with the fluid coupling and cause a "popping" as it clutches in and out according to how many bubbles the subspec fuid is making in the clutchpac at the time. There's a thing about Mercon V in Ford TCs too, but I have to assume your man knows more about this than me. Ford makes Transfer Case Fluid XL-12 [Valvoline "Dex/Merc" meets Ford's new TC fluid spec for 1/4-1/3 the price]

3. Fkn bad u-joints can "pop" and "clunk.

4. Fkn tie rod ends, sway bars, panhard bar can all go "clunk" at certain times, esp if worn.

1. Doing it on snow/slick surfaces too. I'm pretty confident something is wrong, especially since there is no binding when coasting or light throttle.

2. Interesting...You always bring a wealth of info and I appreciate it!

3. Its gotta be a u-joint, IWE/hub issue, or CV axle (mayyybe) at this point.

4. Pretty confident its driveline related due to past experience with steering/suspension issues in different vehicles.

[mangle]

Been having 4wd problems in my 2012 f150. It was engaging fine but making an awful popping noise under load (uphill,etc.) IWEs/hubs were functioning fine, mechanic narrowed down the noise to the t-case. Seemed suspect to me that a tcase would fail in something that new, but it is what it is. Shop put in the new tcase today and now they are telling me there is a noise from the front diff that wasn't there before.
They are going to pull the cover tomorrow am and see what's going on but he told me that "the tcase could have caused the diff to fail or vice-versa" makes no sense to me?! Any thoughts from those smarter than I? I'm thinking they must have missed a sensor or something cause i drover around with the hubs locked while testing them and there was no noise.

I had an NP249 where I had stretched the chain to the point it was skipping. It would pop in turns and under load, but was fine in straight-and-level driving. It was the result of a failed viscous coupler and a lot of mountain driving. Driving in 4wd on grippy surfaces would likely cause the same in your case. The same sort of thing would accelerate wear on other driveline components.

[highangle]

^^^Yep. I didn't even think to mention chain stretch and wear. Solid info!

I'm pretty sure its the IWEs and I told them that last week. The vacuum actually disengages the hubs so a leak would case them to stay engaged. I actually bypassed the vacuum while troubleshooting this myself and my working theory is that the splines in the iwe/hub are worn and causing the slip only under load. I didn't have time/ability to do the iwes mid-winter myself so off to the shop it went. They actually replaced the driver's side due to a different issue a few months ago so my bet is they installed it poorly or the pass side is going out now.

When they said they narrowed it down to the t-case I believed them but at this point I think they are fucking incompetent. Still waiting their call this am with their findings, but I'm very confident nothing is wrong with the diff or t-case. If they can't figure it out I may just tell them swap out the IWEs and see if I'm right lol.

You can swap out those hubs for Warns in an hour in your driveway, assuming it's all new and you have to learn everything as you go. Easy job $200-$250 for the hubs and changeover kit. Youtubes abound.
The shop should easily be able to do it in 1/3-1/2 hour of labor if you don't have T25 male and snap ring pliers.

[snowaddict91]

You can swap out those hubs for Warns in an hour in your driveway, assuming it's all new and you have to learn everything as you go. Easy job $200-$250 for the hubs and changeover kit. Youtubes abound.
The shop should easily be able to do it in 1/3-1/2 hour of labor if you don't have T25 male and snap ring pliers.

As far as I can tell no one makes manual hubs for a modern F150 due to the hub/spindle design. But if they exist can you send me a link? Cause that would be AWESOME.

But yeah never had problems even with auto hubs on my OBS. Kind of missing it today.

[highangle]

On edit: I see what you mean about the hubs. Warn shows '59-'96 Fords. Quelle dommage, what a drag.

[snowaddict91]

Well, truck is back in my possession. Turns out something was tweaked in the hub causing the IWE to not mesh with the splines correctly.

Long story short they wouldn't back down and were adamant something was fucked up in the transfer case. I have my doubts, but short of tearing it apart on their shop floor I guess I'll never know. They gave me enough of a discount that I got the t-case for cost and paid no labor essentially. Free diff service too I guess. I had the slightest hesitation on takeoff for a while that I thought was the slip yoke, but its gone now. Maybe the transfer case did have an issue? I've only owned the truck for 10k miles so hard to say what happened before but I know they towed with it.

So after I got the truck home I was looking around and discovered the hubs were now stuck engaged with the engine running in 2wd and I could hear a vacuum leak. Further investigation showed they never hooked the line back up when they replaced the hub, meaning they never even properly checked their work?!



I don't think I even trust them with my lug nuts at this point. Time for a tall glass of whiskey to put this week behind me. At least the skiing has been damn good.

[MakersTeleMark]

Glad you got it figured out, and more.

So happy I have manual hubs.

Note for those with manual hubs: don't go Warn. The center selector is plastic and can easily break or get jammed when operating in cold temps/snow. I switched mine out to all metal mile markers years ago and they have performed flawlessly.

[highangle]

Sorry man, can't roll with those milemarkers on my Ōl FŌD. I herd sum things...Actually, prepping for the U-joint assassination, I watched a tech pull a MM hub out of a D60, in pieces. So it's sorta fresh for me...

On your advice though, when the Warn 11690s on my truck get warranted under their lifetime warranty, I might up to

WARN 38826 Premium Manual Hubs

9/10 turn dial for robust engagement/disengagement
All metal construction with wave spring technology
Lifetime limited warranty
For 30 spline axles
ZA alloy dial with dual seals keep contaminants out

$252.88 & FREE Shipping

...Assuming I can still remember this post on that day, sometime hence.

[gaijin]

Glad you got it figured out, and more.

So happy I have manual hubs.

Note for those with manual hubs: don't go Warn. The center selector is plastic and can easily break or get jammed when operating in cold temps/snow. I switched mine out to all metal mile markers years ago and they have performed flawlessly.

Wow. I had built a '72 K5 back in the day and remember this exact problem. That was 20 years ago. Holy cow. That project was constant work. Learned a lot, though. I can still smell it.

[highangle]

I lock my hubs in sometime in November, usually, and usually take them out in April or May. I just shift the TC in/out of 4x4. There's always snow or ice off the main roads, and usually on them.
Counterintuitive, but keeping the front driveline turning lets the U-joints live much longer than deadheading them around in 2wd.