Should the SEC step in and prevent more ski resort mergers?

[Gaperious Basterd]

This is getting out of control. Clearly two entities are trying to get a monopoly on big resorts.

I think this is un-American and do not want to see another one purchased by either of these entities.

Literally Jackson Hole is the last major one standing; if that gets sold it's all over.

[Buster Highmen]

Yes, it's way past time to start enforcing anti trust. Capitalism requires competition or it becomes Corporatism.

Yeah, I know, polyass.

Vote with your dollar:CB, T'ride, Wolf Creek, Taos, etc.

[summit]

"Capitalism requires competition or it becomes Corporatism."

That

[Skidog]

Alta.... doubt they will get absorbed into anything.

[TAFKALVS]

It would be neat if the Forest Service would help establish more small local type hills.

[GoldMember]

That's not going to happen. The SEC has bigger fish to fry than the ski industry. In my former industry, there are two big players who control about 90% of the brands in the market. The other 10% are small, regional companies who offer some local competition. The reality is that the two big players are about evenly split in terms of market share and they compete fiercely. The consumer wins as the two bigs have the money to throw at improved efficiencies and the price of those products has remained relatively flat since 2005 while the products have become more diverse. The perception of what happens versus what's really happening are likely very different.

[PNWbrit]

It'd be the FTC or DOJ.

That's not going to happen. The SEC has bigger fish to fry than the ski industry.

The SEC would be the regulatory body who investigate the new hedge-fund owners of former CNL lifestyle Properties

Brighton Ski Resort, Utah
Crested Butte Mountain Resort, Colorado
Cypress Mountain, B.C., Canada
Gatlinburg Sky Lift, Tennessee
Jiminy Peak Mountain Resort, Massachusetts
Loon Mountain Resort, New Hampshire
Mount Sunapee Mountain Resort, New Hampshire
Mountain High Resort, California
Northstar-at-Tahoe Resort, California
Okemo Mountain Resort, Vermont
Sierra-at-Tahoe Resort, California
Stevens Pass, Washington
Sugarloaf Mountain Resort, Maine
Summit-at-Snoqualmie Resort, Washington
Sunday River Resort, Maine

for corruption and bribery in their African blood mining interests.

[hatchgreenchile]

The market will respond by upping visits to non Vail/KSL mountains, due to overcrowding, faux European villages, parking issues, etc. etc. long before the SEC is involved.

[GoldMember]

It'd be the FTC or DOJ.

Yeah, good point. FTC would be the agency and DOJ only if the FTC found illegal activity. Regardless, I don't see it happening.

[TAFKALVS]

The market will respond by upping visits to non Vail/KSL mountains, due to overcrowding, faux European villages, parking issues, etc. etc. long before the SEC is involved.

But what if there aren't any Non-Vail/KSL resorts left?

[Elkhound Odin]

That's not going to happen. The SEC has bigger fish to fry than the ski industry. In my former industry, there are two big players who control about 90% of the brands in the market. The other 10% are small, regional companies who offer some local competition. The reality is that the two big players are about evenly split in terms of market share and they compete fiercely. The consumer wins as the two bigs have the money to throw at improved efficiencies and the price of those products has remained relatively flat since 2005 while the products have become more diverse. The perception of what happens versus what's really happening are likely very different.

Pepsi & Coke?

[SKIP IN7RO]

But what if there aren't any Non-Vail/KSL resorts left?

No worries...Ski Hesperus and Hogadon will never sell-out.

[GoldMember]

No, much smaller industry, probably more akin to the ski industry.

[quienes?]

Denver Post took a look at antitrust issues in the KSL-Aspen Skiing deal on Sunday

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/07...rust-concerns/

Previous antitrust concerns -- like the DOJ ordering Vail to ditch ABasin in its deal with Ralston in 97 -- revolved around a monopoly raising prices. The concern today, with season passes, is that a duopoly may price season passes so low that independent operators won't be able to compete with day tickets. Old Vern at Silverton weighs in on that issue.

[Buster Highmen]

Denver Post took a look at antitrust issues in the KSL-Aspen Skiing deal on Sunday

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/07...rust-concerns/

Previous antitrust concerns -- like the DOJ ordering Vail to ditch ABasin in its deal with Ralston in 97 -- revolved around a monopoly raising prices. The concern today, with season passes, is that a duopoly may price season passes so low that independent operators won't be able to compete with day tickets. Old Vern at Silverton weighs in on that issue.

To wit:

(from http://silvertonmountain.com/heli-sk...epic-pass-era/ linked by Meadow Skipper in another thread)
:
May 4, 2017
Heli Skiing, Walmart, and The Epic Pass Era
In case you have not heard, KSL recently purchased a multitude of big ski resorts adding to their extensive portfolio and is expected to follow the Vail Resorts Epic Pass model. Vail Resorts and KSL now own many of the best ski areas in the US, and follow a Walmart-style approach to skiing by selling very popular inexpensive season passes to the masses that provide a tremendous amount of skiing at all their resorts. On the surface, this seems like a huge win for skiers in the US with more skiing for less money and endless road trip possibilities with a single season pass. Not surprisingly, the Epic Pass is incredibly popular and driving record profits to Vail Resorts, which is why KSL wants in.

Walmart is also quite popular and profitable by focusing on selling at a high volume which allows them to offer the lowest prices. Walmart is always busy, and so is Vail Resorts.
If you don’t care about massive crowds, then the Vail Resorts model is a great thing for skiing. If you are a mid-sized or small ski area that is reliant solely on skier revenue to make ends meet, the Vail Resorts model presents several challenges. Typically, when a new Walmart opens, it puts pressure on the smaller independent hardware and grocery stores. The smaller stores cannot compete on pricing and many go out of business. The hardware or grocery stores that offer a unique or boutique product continually adapt and survive, and many even thrive by offering products that Walmart cannot. Perhaps it’s a unique birdfeeder that sells well and keeps the small business open.

Mid-sized and small ski areas struggle in the Epic Pass era as they can no longer sell enough lift tickets or season passes at their actual value. It becomes impossible for independent ski areas to price their tickets at what it costs to provide the product, let alone make a profit. Mid-sized ski areas that have other profit centers, such as lodging, food and beverage, continue to do get by as best they can, but it gets harder every year to compete with Vail Resorts.

For ski areas that are strictly reliant on skier revenue, it’s even more challenging. The Vail Resorts/KSL model has effectively devalued lift tickets, as many people scoff at paying for skiing at window rates when their Epic Pass covers so many areas. Why would anyone pay for a day ticket during a road trip when a cheap season pass comes with so many places to road trip to?

At Silverton Mountain, the Vail Resorts/KSL model has put pressure on the ski area to adapt every season. Initially, Silverton Mountain offered season pass holders a bunch of free days at other premier ski areas through pass partnerships, and they sold well. As other independent ski areas adapted to the Epic Pass era, the Mountain Collective and MAX Passes sprouted up as many mid-sized resorts banded together to try to compete with Vail Resorts. Silverton Mountain cannot accept the volume of skiers that the Mountain Collective brings with it, and because of this, this ski area lost many season pass partners over the past five seasons.

Without sufficient season pass and day ticket revenue to cover costs, Silverton Mountain’s unguided season was slowly reduced and eventually the ski area had to make major changes to unguided skiing based on the financial reality of the current market. Silverton Mountain can no longer sell enough unguided passes at a price people are willing to pay to cover the rising costs of doing business. Silverton Mountain loved these early additional unguided days as much as you. When people ask, “why not more unguided skiing?” or “why the need for heli skiing?” the answer is more complicated than one initially might imagine.

Luckily, Silverton Mountain has other popular products to offer, like guided skiing and heli skiing, which allows the ski area to continue operating. These products are what keep the 45 amazing employees working at this ski area. These products are the unique birdfeeder that keep the mountain operating in the Epic Pass era. The opportunity to ski at an independent ski area shrinks every year, and the Vail Resorts/KSL/Walmart model is only one of the major contributing factors.

In regards to heli skiing, there is so much misinformation being circulated regarding Silverton Guide’s recent heli approval that it is impossible to explain it all. But the most common misconception is heli skiers will be dropped above backcountry skiers, and the heli will be detonating explosives above them, both of which are simply not true. Silverton Guides has been operating heli skiing for many years in Silverton and San Juan County in areas much closer to popular backcountry areas, including Red Mountain Pass, and has never placed heli skiers or explosives near touring skiers. Silverton Guides has always been a good neighbor, and will continue to be so for every season to come.

[dunfree]

Medium/Small ski areas can charge what customers value the experience at, they just can't make money at that price. This trend has been going on long before the current Epic Pass merger shitstorm of the 2010s.

If the DOJ isn't interested in the emerging WalMart/Amazon duopoly, with more far reaching consequences, I doubt they'll touch ski areas.

[skifishbum]

if you needs the fuckin guberment to solve your problems
you gots real fuckin problems

[stuckathuntermtn]

Hey, I got real problems!


Idk, like, I almost kinda wish VR would buy Snowbowl. They wouldn't, but a kid can dream.

[enlosandes]

To put it in perspective, Vail Resorts and the new Aspen/KSL entity will now control about 35% of the total North American market between their 28 or so ski resorts.

[Benny Profane]

This is not the SEC's concern. The Department of Justice deals with anti trust issues, and, as we have seen over the last 24 hours, they have much bigger fish to fry.

[Kirby]

Sounds like SOCIALISM to me.

[MRR11]

Sounds like I need to quit my day job and get into the unique birdfeeder business

[straightlineorbust]

Everytime I see this thread I just think Roll Tide

[Percy Rideout]

The market will respond by upping visits to non Vail/KSL mountains, due to overcrowding, faux European villages, parking issues, etc. etc. long before the SEC is involved.

I'm with Hatch on this one. :Crosses fingers that Aspen/Snowmass will still be lineless:

[PNWbrit]

the new hedge-fund owners of former CNL lifestyle Properties



for corruption and bribery in their African blood mining interests.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/sunape...-sale-10567921

State calls for public meeting amid concerns over Mount Sunapee ski lease

After bribery schemes in Africa led the U.S. government to fine the new operator of Mount Sunapee Resort $412 million last year – one of the biggest penalties ever issued under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act – the New Hampshire attorney general wants to hold a public information meeting about plans for the resort.

The resort is part of Mount Sunapee State Park, but ski operations are run by private companies under a lease. That lease was sold recently by its previous owner, Florida-based real estate investment trust CNL, to New York hedge fund Och-Ziff. The sale was part of a reported $830 million deal involving a number of other ski areas, including Okemo in Vermont and Sunday River and Sugarloaf in Maine.