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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik View Post
    I'll just do a quick drop in here to refute this little so often held belief. The reason tons of people think pro skiers don't have the same day-to-day stresses is because one, we do our job well and make you believe that it's all powder snow and blue skies at all times, and two, because if we post/talk/mention any sort of stress, normalcy of life, relation to anyone with a 9-5, people jump on us like rabid dogs saying "we're whiny little brats" that somehow have managed to escape the constraints of society like bills, rent and health insurance. Don't get me wrong, this job is the best job I could ever imagine, something I dreamed of as a kid and am still in disbelief that I get to do as my career. Wouldn't trade it for millions upon millions of dollars. But here's the thing, it's still a job and the people that rise to the top, the people you discuss and see, have worked their asses off to get there...you just don't get to see that part. Most pro skiers at some point were dead broke, living in broom closet rooms with 8 other ski bums in unaffordable ski towns, trying to survive the winter on either a part-time minimum wage job or the three thousand dollar check from their one sponsor that actually pays. I'm not going to go into my personal work, stresses or hardships, but there is one quote that often best sums up being a pro skier said by Parker White, "I'm one more knee surgery away from being a janitor."

    So in relation to CG, she works fucking hard at what she does and because of that is why there is this asinine thread about her. If she didn't, she'd just be another skier out there having fun.
    Fuck yeah. Thanks for your perspective

  2. #402
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    Caroline Gleich Harrassment Story

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik View Post
    I'll just do a quick drop in here to refute this little so often held belief. The reason tons of people think pro skiers don't have the same day-to-day stresses is because one, we do our job well and make you believe that it's all powder snow and blue skies at all times, and two, because if we post/talk/mention any sort of stress, normalcy of life, relation to anyone with a 9-5, people jump on us like rabid dogs saying "we're whiny little brats" that somehow have managed to escape the constraints of society like bills, rent and health insurance. Don't get me wrong, this job is the best job I could ever imagine, something I dreamed of as a kid and am still in disbelief that I get to do as my career. Wouldn't trade it for millions upon millions of dollars. But here's the thing, it's still a job and the people that rise to the top, the people you discuss and see, have worked their asses off to get there...you just don't get to see that part. Most pro skiers at some point were dead broke, living in broom closet rooms with 8 other ski bums in unaffordable ski towns, trying to survive the winter on either a part-time minimum wage job or the three thousand dollar check from their one sponsor that actually pays. I'm not going to go into my personal work, stresses or hardships, but there is one quote that often best sums up being a pro skier said by Parker White, "I'm one more knee surgery away from being a janitor."

    So in relation to CG, she works fucking hard at what she does and because of that is why there is this asinine thread about her. If she didn't, she'd just be another skier out there having fun.
    Well said, thx for chimin’ in.

    Everything else aside- As a freeski fan, I enjoy and take note of when we get a look into the ‘grind’ aspect of the career and I am grateful for when It occasionally happens. the New York Times article with Sage and Mac ‘the magic kingdom’ is an example of that.

    And while I understand why it makes sense to limit that content from a marketing perspective, it bears noting how unfortunate it is that there is a flippant reaction to such content from a sizable portion of the viewership. So we don’t get a lot of it, which by the sounds of it, is what we deserve.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik View Post
    I'll just do a quick drop in here to refute this little so often held belief. The reason tons of people think pro skiers don't have the same day-to-day stresses is because one, we do our job well and make you believe that it's all powder snow and blue skies at all times, and two, because if we post/talk/mention any sort of stress, normalcy of life, relation to anyone with a 9-5, people jump on us like rabid dogs saying "we're whiny little brats" that somehow have managed to escape the constraints of society like bills, rent and health insurance. Don't get me wrong, this job is the best job I could ever imagine, something I dreamed of as a kid and am still in disbelief that I get to do as my career. Wouldn't trade it for millions upon millions of dollars. But here's the thing, it's still a job and the people that rise to the top, the people you discuss and see, have worked their asses off to get there...you just don't get to see that part. Most pro skiers at some point were dead broke, living in broom closet rooms with 8 other ski bums in unaffordable ski towns, trying to survive the winter on either a part-time minimum wage job or the three thousand dollar check from their one sponsor that actually pays. I'm not going to go into my personal work, stresses or hardships, but there is one quote that often best sums up being a pro skier said by Parker White, "I'm one more knee surgery away from being a janitor."

    So in relation to CG, she works fucking hard at what she does and because of that is why there is this asinine thread about her. If she didn't, she'd just be another skier out there having fun.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik View Post
    I'll just do a quick drop in here to refute this little so often held belief. The reason tons of people think pro skiers don't have the same day-to-day stresses is because one, we do our job well and make you believe that it's all powder snow and blue skies at all times, and two, because if we post/talk/mention any sort of stress, normalcy of life, relation to anyone with a 9-5, people jump on us like rabid dogs saying "we're whiny little brats" that somehow have managed to escape the constraints of society like bills, rent and health insurance.
    You've just completely shattered my every conception of right and wrong, good and bad, and life and death.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik View Post
    I'll just do a quick drop in here to refute this little so often held belief. The reason tons of people think pro skiers don't have the same day-to-day stresses is because one, we do our job well and make you believe that it's all powder snow and blue skies at all times, and two, because if we post/talk/mention any sort of stress, normalcy of life, relation to anyone with a 9-5, people jump on us like rabid dogs saying "we're whiny little brats" that somehow have managed to escape the constraints of society like bills, rent and health insurance. Don't get me wrong, this job is the best job I could ever imagine, something I dreamed of as a kid and am still in disbelief that I get to do as my career. Wouldn't trade it for millions upon millions of dollars. But here's the thing, it's still a job and the people that rise to the top, the people you discuss and see, have worked their asses off to get there...you just don't get to see that part. Most pro skiers at some point were dead broke, living in broom closet rooms with 8 other ski bums in unaffordable ski towns, trying to survive the winter on either a part-time minimum wage job or the three thousand dollar check from their one sponsor that actually pays. I'm not going to go into my personal work, stresses or hardships, but there is one quote that often best sums up being a pro skier said by Parker White, "I'm one more knee surgery away from being a janitor."

    So in relation to CG, she works fucking hard at what she does and because of that is why there is this asinine thread about her. If she didn't, she'd just be another skier out there having fun.
    This asinine thread is not about how hard CG works.
    Nobody is disputing that she works hard, with passion, for a lot of good causes, herself included.
    Its about the fact that, unlike you, your wife, and most other pros, CG plays the victim card.
    She is crying "Me, too" in the same breath as she is crying "Am, too".
    Why does she feel the need to constantly defend herself and her actions if her actions are legit?
    She is using social media to promote her career. Yet she's having us all concentrate on the one or two assholes which social media produces that questioned her integrity.
    As you well know, these assholes are part of the game. Big fucking deal.
    She riles up many of her followers with accusations of misogyny and sexism.
    Shut up and hike, ski, and focus on the awesome work that she is doing for the environment.
    Enough with the "Am, too" distraction.
    The world and environment have enough problems without CG asking to be a charity case.
    Is that the legacy that any pro athlete desires?
    She has good focus. Focus on the important shit.

  6. #406
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    Caroline Gleich Harrassment Story

    Quote Originally Posted by telefreewasatch View Post
    Why does she feel the need to constantly defend herself and her actions?
    Cuz she gets an inordinate amount of hate mail? That most pros don’t?

  7. #407
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    Here's a different take then.

    Maybe she's working a little too hard. Now an ambassador for winter wildlands ergo using her social media acquired 'voice' to kick out sled skiers from public lands.

    That's about the only reason I can see for any animosity. I don't give a rip about any of the other gripes people seem to have.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Here's a different take then.

    Maybe she's working a little too hard. Now an ambassador for winter wildlands ergo using her social media acquired 'voice' to kick out sled skiers from public lands.

    That's about the only reason I can see for any animosity. I don't give a rip about any of the other gripes people seem to have.

    That is an interesting issue to bring up.

    there are a lot more people back country skiing, and Snow Machines can easily go places that very few could ever go before.


    A big issue that was a non issue 20 years ago.
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by telefreewasatch View Post
    She riles up many of her followers with accusations of misogyny and sexism.
    Shut up and hike, ski, and focus on the awesome work that she is doing for the environment.
    Just leaving this here. Textbook sexist response.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTT View Post
    A big issue that was a non issue 20 years ago.
    Where winter wildlands sticks their noses (IE right here in your and my neighborhood right now) it's also largely a non-issue. Yet those 4-5 paid staff positions ain't gonna fund themselves.

    5013c self-perpetuation masquerading as environmentalism sucks. Especially when thinking nothing of hopping on planes to go to japan, driving 8+ hours round trip to ski, and hopping in A-stars.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  11. #411
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    The world changes,
    When I was a kid, we drove up the dirt roads in a jeep to 5 lakes to camp and fish.
    there horror? right.

    And I used to ride snowmobiles on sheep flats all the way up to mount rose ski areaand far beyond., everyone did. the grass always grew back after the snow melted.
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

  12. #412
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    its kinda of small industry and world
    so the fact that someones business card with personal information ended up on the back wall of the shop and that same person got stalked isnt surprising
    and if the creepers name was greg im not surprised at the least
    i wouldn't work for him and skipped retail that season
    got no idea how it got there
    dont care but i tend to be slightly less empathetic on self inflicted wounds
    as for avvy 3
    when a friend of mine
    who i know how hard he worked to pass that cert
    who just might be an acquiescence of hers
    tells me her snow science skills were not up anywhere near the level necessary to be granted that cert
    and the feedback she received based on her actions had merit
    and instead of taking that feedback which even if it had some potential misinformation in
    and choosing to not share any of the other feedback, and wrapping it up in a incredible I me too victim manifesto of excuse
    for her living vicariously cube cucks to rally to her cause is laughable and a disservice to the avalanche education community
    and all the emojis in the cyber world aint gonna change the fact that you need to work really hard to pass avvy 3
    or at least smarter
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
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    ski on in eternal peace

  13. #413
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    SFB - I’ve got mad respect for you as one of the true OG mags and for holding down the BCC stoke. But you’re wrong here.

    CGs post wasn’t complaining about not passing Avy 3. It was about some other made up controversy that again, men who did the same thing got a pass on. The comments made to her that she shared are extremely inappropriate and also demonstrative of what CG and many other women go through everyday. Online or IRL. They were shared to show the no-win nature of the situation these women are in.

    Remember years ago how she would get criticized as “just a ski model” cause she was the face on the Bird’s billboard? So then she becomes a ski mountaineer and ticks off some of the biggest projects on the Wasatch and now those same people are saying she can’t clip in, or ski with friends, or follow a pitch before she leads it. It all sounds bitter and hollow and meant to tear her down.

    Nobody here is saying that she should have passed that class. There is no way for anyone to know. But what is clear is the instructor held her status as a sponsored woman athlete against her. That is what is so fucked up.

    The victim blaming and “shut up and ski” rhetoric in this thread shows the same thing.

    Everyone is entitled to have a bad day without an internet mob going after them. Male athletes don’t have to go through the level of scrutiny in the same way. That’s just the truth of the matter. Sure the harassment and trolls may “come with the territory” but does that mean CG isn’t allowed to call it out? Or try to make it better?

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    Just leaving this here. Textbook sexist response.
    Caroline?

  15. #415
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    #contextmatters
    #nutshellsmatter
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    It's also *possible* these comments were made in attempt to help her succeed in the future. I don't think they reek of either bias or sexism without more context. And since we weren't there, we just don't know.

    Let's put aside the fact that it was Gleich and consider a scenario with an imaginary male participant: Imagine you're an Avy3 instructor and a male ski model turned pro skier with a huge social media following and impressive ski resume takes your class and is pretty incompetent/unprepared and simultaneously vocal and also defensive about his skills? Wouldn't you at least *want* to say something to get the person to look inward and change the way he approaches the mountains so he can stay safe and be more prepared to pass in the future? Wouldn't you want to say something like



    And none of those comments would come from a place of sexism or even resentment.

    It also seems the guide comment got blown out of proportion -- if someone primarily gets out with people more experienced than him/herself, regardless of whether those people are guides or friends, he/she might have a fair number of accomplishments to his/her name without the knowledge/skills to do them solo. I think that's the point the instructor was trying to make. There's a big difference between skiing something (or climbing or anything outside) where you are the leader versus when someone else is the leader.

    Note: I know myself well enough to understand that I'm not a very politically correct person, I don't like to sugar coat things, and I'm also not an experienced instructor/educator, so I would discuss with others (especially my wife) exactly how I gave that sort feedback so it would be well received and not dismissed as some sort of bias. I'd certainly avoid giving feedback that stated or implied the person had hired a guide or gotten out with more experienced people in the past because it's irrelevant, even if I had first-hand knowledge that it was true.

    Again, I don't know Gleich's ski resume (and I certainly don't know her personally), so I'm not trying to say she hasn't skied major stuff solo or as the leader. Obviously, it was stupid to put those things in writing, but if she was as incompetent or unprepared as telefreewasatch says, it's possible they were just trying to get her to change her perspective and gain more experience so she is more prepared for her next class.

    ____________
    and part of being an contributing community og means yours and these type of opinions dont to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    Its over exaggerations like this that make "that" narrative hard to believe, and point more towards some kind of bias. Whether that is a sexist bias, or a jealousy bias against a "famous" pro regardless of gender. The lady passed Avi 1, 2, multiple other certs, has spent a ton of time in the mountains solo, a ton of time in the mountains with guides, and "pretty much whenever she opened her mouth she didn't know what she was talking about"?

    Come-the-fuck-on. Sounds one helluva lot more like your buddy has an axe to grind, or an ego to stoke.
    yeah we all are here to grind our wish we were pro axes
    we really dont wish her the best even if the truth is painful
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post

    The victim blaming and “shut up and ski” rhetoric in this thread shows the same thing.

    Everyone is entitled to have a bad day without an internet mob going after them. Male athletes don’t have to go through the level of scrutiny in the same way. That’s just the truth of the matter. Sure the harassment and trolls may “come with the territory” but does that mean CG isn’t allowed to call it out? Or try to make it better?
    I think you are missing the point. CG is receiving my ADVICE. Same advice my two pro skier offspring of either sex would receive.
    Pick your battles.
    Don't be a target.
    Don't alienate men.
    Don't alienate the local professional community.
    Don't be remembered for always saying "Am, too".
    Let your actions speak for yourself, instead. Same as her instructors tried to say.
    Tried to watch her flick, but at three minutes or so, it became about harassment and she lost me.
    She lost a number of women I know there, too.

    So, yeah, the advice I would be to Caroline is the same as I would give my own daughter; shut up and ski.

  17. #417
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    Kent and Shane paved the way for skiers following to make some semblance of a life as athlete skiers.
    Before them, great freeskiers pretty much just got gear.
    Which pretty much ended when you got knee surgery.

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    SFB - I’ve got mad respect for you as one of the true OG mags and for holding down the BCC stoke. But you’re wrong here.

    CGs post wasn’t complaining about not passing Avy 3. It was about some other made up controversy that again, men who did the same thing got a pass on. The comments made to her that she shared are extremely inappropriate and also demonstrative of what CG and many other women go through everyday. Online or IRL. They were shared to show the no-win nature of the situation these women are in.

    Remember years ago how she would get criticized as “just a ski model” cause she was the face on the Bird’s billboard? So then she becomes a ski mountaineer and ticks off some of the biggest projects on the Wasatch and now those same people are saying she can’t clip in, or ski with friends, or follow a pitch before she leads it. It all sounds bitter and hollow and meant to tear her down.

    Nobody here is saying that she should have passed that class. There is no way for anyone to know. But what is clear is the instructor held her status as a sponsored woman athlete against her. That is what is so fucked up.

    The victim blaming and “shut up and ski” rhetoric in this thread shows the same thing.

    Everyone is entitled to have a bad day without an internet mob going after them. Male athletes don’t have to go through the level of scrutiny in the same way. That’s just the truth of the matter. Sure the harassment and trolls may “come with the territory” but does that mean CG isn’t allowed to call it out? Or try to make it better?
    I agree, wholeheartedly, and I also think that tfw and sfb seem to have other axes to grind and are looking past what CG's article was about.
    I swear on my glass eye,

  19. #419
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    Caroline Gleich Harrassment Story

    Quote Originally Posted by telefreewasatch View Post
    Caroline?

    Quote Originally Posted by telefreewasatch View Post
    I think you are missing the point. CG is receiving my ADVICE. Same advice my two pro skier offspring of either sex would receive.
    Pick your battles.
    Don't be a target.
    Don't alienate men.
    Don't alienate the local professional community.
    Don't be remembered for always saying "Am, too".
    Let your actions speak for yourself, instead. Same as her instructors tried to say.
    Tried to watch her flick, but at three minutes or so, it became about harassment and she lost me.
    She lost a number of women I know there, too.

    So, yeah, the advice I would be to Caroline is the same as I would give my own daughter; shut up and ski.
    Hey man, you want to be an internet misogynist douche face, you do you. But at least own it. Don’t pretend to be some hero.

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    Hey man, you want to be an internet misogynist douche face, you do you. But at least own it. Don’t pretend to be some hero.
    Caroline?

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by reckless toboggan View Post
    You've just completely shattered my every conception of right and wrong, good and bad, and life and death.
    Dannnngggg edgy comment

    WTF are you on about?

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    Caroline Gleich Harrassment Story

    ^^^ I believe it was tongue in cheek

  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by telefreewasatch View Post
    I think you are missing the point. CG is receiving my ADVICE. Same advice my two pro skier offspring of either sex would receive.
    Pick your battles.
    Don't be a target.
    Don't alienate men.
    Don't alienate the local professional community.
    Don't be remembered for always saying "Am, too".
    Let your actions speak for yourself, instead. Same as her instructors tried to say.
    Tried to watch her flick, but at three minutes or so, it became about harassment and she lost me.
    She lost a number of women I know there, too.

    So, yeah, the advice I would be to Caroline is the same as I would give my own daughter; shut up and ski.
    I bet she thinks getting stalked is cool

    She was harassed so she’s talking about it.. some of us can handle hearing her talk about it.

  24. #424
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    [QUOTE=Supermoon;5377093]Hey man, you want to be an internet misogynist douche face, you do you. But at least own it. Don’t pretend to be some hero.[/QUOT

    Do you even know the meaning of the word misogynist? Both you and her toss it around pretty lightly and freely.
    Am I pretending to be some hero?
    I think not.

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by telefreewasatch View Post
    Do you even know the meaning of the word misogynist? Both you and her toss it around pretty lightly and freely.
    Am I pretending to be some hero?
    I think not.
    Maybe I don't know the meaning of the word misogynist. What does it have with "pretending to be some hero"?
    I swear on my glass eye,

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